Recommending Story-first games

[noping123]

Anyway, it's not appropriate for the dev of the discussed game to butt in too much! Just wanted to share my thoughts about some of the stuff, heh.

Sure it is. Whether you agree with the comments, disagree, or have a different take. I think most people (particularly the people here) appreciate hearing the thoughts behind the actual creation.

For my part, I don't think people wanted (or at least I didn't) the game to go full "everything is totes serious now guis" - just that the way it was done felt a little whiplashy, going from what was by far the heaviest part of the game, to "LOL joey", with nothing to really buffer it.

Also, the extremely long update delay (Not blaming you for that, it just is what it is) lead to an odd situation - the whole luna storyline was both very heavy, and one of the last things people see - so it's definitely going to be "the thing" people remember when coming back to the game after so long - and I think the whiplash thing I mentioned is magnified by this - the game had its humor and lighter parts and occasional nonsense before, but you don't remember that as much, so it's not what you're expecting.

The end result here is a lot of people, myself included, went into it expecting something totally different than what they got. What they got wasn't by any means bad - it just caught some people off-guard.

At least that's my take.

 

[vneotpolemus]

If authors didn't want to talk about their creations they'd keep them hidden in a drawer (or in the dark recesses of their harddrive).

 

[bacienvu88]

Yeah, noticed many people kinda wanted the game to go down the bit more 'serious' path once I released Luna's flashback.
Luna's flashback event was never meant to change the game, but rather showcase why Luna is who Luna is and create a goal for the player (m6 chase).
The game has always had some degree with darker parts, mc's mother trying to use poison on him when he was a kid, the death of Trino (traitor guy), and some other parts of the game where it may not be dark but simply very story focused with no room for comedy. Granted, Luna's flashback event was long and the 'dark' part was turned up a notch.

Another thing to note is that we're playing a game while it's being developed. Luna's part finished with the serious/dark part, but the other releases focused on the other girls, which did not include major 'serious' moment but rather on their individual arc (Gracie's work with the Family, Isabel's relationship with Gracie and Antonio)

Now, I could've forced myself to change the direction of the game at those part. Like, make the writing on Gracie's and Isabel's part more serious and probably many people would not dislike it or even had loved it. But I personally wouldn't have liked done that. When I write, I genuinely do not think about what genre must fit where. I just write based on what I feel like how I want the story to go. Even the comedy part is never planned. I just write.
This will probably make every pro writer throw their pen and paper at me and call me a writer infidel, heh.
But I'm an amateur writer, creating a hobby project. I like my weird way of doing it.

About our mc - the game explains that he is a coward who is afraid of situations that can get him killed. But the game also tries to distinguish between lethal situation vs non-lethal situations. He is not afraid of random fights. But his personality just want to avoid it if he can.
Haven't gotten into mc's background regarding if he hasn't had combat training, but haven't explained that he lacks it either.
What have diluted the idea of mc's competence regarding normal fights is probably that mc is mostly reacting to events that involve high ranking people. Be it serpents, capos, or what not.
I tried to fix that a bit with the introduction of the remade introduction scene, trying to showcase a bit more about MC's personality without going overboard, but alas, this is where I have to improve as a writer.

About the porn logic - there is for certain porn logic applied. Side characters are supposed to be quick and very porn logic applied, where the main girls only have it from time to time with the use of my imaginary 'porn logic notch'. Isabel more than the other two.
I don't want a realistic love/intimate style of game. The lewd part was always meant to be 'boys fantasy'. I want to turn up the porn logic notch just so we can get some fun lewd, but not high enough that it becomes too much.

Anyway, it's not appropriate for the dev of the discussed game to butt in too much! Just wanted to share my thoughts about some of the stuff, heh.

Thanks for your input! And I'll always respect a dev that does the game they want even if it isn't the direction I want it to go in.

I don't have a problem with either the dark elements or the comedy in itself. It is just that to me it becomes jarring when the two extremes are intermixed in a slightly arbitrary way (due to sandbox).

 

[Raife]

My objection is two-fold:

- People with much stronger connections to the family are subject to harsh rules, so why not MC? We know for a fact that he's not Cordia's son (she says so explicitly), so at best he's some long forgotten nephew. We know that the family needs him, somehow, but so what? That just means he must be kept alive, not pampered.
- His apparent skill and expertise is entirely unearned. Unless martial prowess is a genetic trait in this universe, in which case I'll stop looking for logic here entirely

On point 1, I just assumed there was some unknown but ultimately logical reason why he's Cordia's favourite... so I suspended disbelief.
On point 2, I share your concerns: he has a strange mix of characteristics, plus a curious capacity for effective violence despite his supposed cowardice. I still don't understand it, despite the dev's kind effort to explain his thinking.

It's an appealing game, despite its faults. There are some things that it does very, very well... and some things that don't make sense. Plus there's the jarring mix of compelling story and rando porn bits.

 

[Hryme]

I think you should add that you exclude games with non-consentual sex in the original post. It is your list and you decide what to put in it of course, but it is nice for people who just read the top post to know all the factors the games are judged by.

I got that from reading the thread. If that is a misrepresentation of your position please correct me.

 

[jufot]

I think you should add that you exclude games with non-consentual sex in the original post. It is your list and you decide what to put in it of course, but it is nice for people who just read the top post to know all the factors the games are judged by.

I got that from reading the thread. If that is a misrepresentation of your position please correct me.

It's not that I refuse to add games with noncon (and similar) to the list. If there is a story-first game I loved which happened to have noncon, I'd probably add it. The trouble is, I don't usually play those games and I definitely won't add a game I haven't played

Besides, the list is a small part of this thread's attraction. The real value is in the discussions we have here, which don't have to fit my tastes at all

 

[Hryme]

Well personally I am of the opinion that darker themed games can have good story too. Though I admit it is rare. Karlson's Gambit is the prime example. Wife Trainer is another game that has darker themes with good writing. But it is not a visual novel.

 

[jufot]

Karlson's Gambit is the prime example

Karlsson's Gambit is a good example, actually. Femdom as a sexual kink is interesting to me, but in AVNs it's not about sexual domination at all, it's all pseudo-slavery / indentured servitude nonsense. Estate: Dominate is equally guilty of this. I can't play these games long enough to judge the quality of their story because I get bored/annoyed very quickly :/

 

[Hryme]

Yeah. Peoples tastes differ.

Edit: I should say a bit more I guess.
That is part of the backstory of the game. A part of the worldbuilding. As a responsible adult (I hope) I recognize that this is a fantasy that helps set up a story of female (and male) domination with quite extreme elements. I get excited by many things that I would never approve of in real life. But you have a stronger reaction to it. I respect that.

 

[Tlaero]

AVNs let people do things they wouldn't do in real life, all the way from dating a (fictional) character who is not their spouse down to torture and murder of (fictional) characters. There's a line in there somewhere, a line we won't cross, but the line is different for everyone. Maybe for some people the line is "making the pretty girl frown." Maybe for others it's anal sex. And still others it's "domination." So long as we continue talking about fictional characters, everyone is welcome to draw their line wherever they want.

It is the case, however, that there are a lot more story first games on the "light" side of that continuum than the "dark" one. So we're likely to spend more time talking about those games.

That said, even the "all the way to the dark" side can be done well. There was a horror movie (I'm blanking on the name) that was a time loop where the young female protagonist kept getting brutally murdered by the killer. In the end, you learned that this was actually hell, and the killer was being forced to relive the death of the woman he killed, from her POV, over and over again, for all eternity. Put the whole thing in a different light.

Long story short, I believe we're all willing to talk about well done stories here regardless of where they fall on that continuum.

Tlaero

 

[E_O_N]

That said, even the "all the way to the dark" side can be done well. There was a horror movie (I'm blanking on the name) that was a time loop where the young female protagonist kept getting brutally murdered by the killer. In the end, you learned that this was actually hell, and the killer was being forced to relive the death of the woman he killed, from her POV, over and over again, for all eternity. Put the whole thing in a different light.

I hate horror movies, but that one sounds interesting.

 

[jufot]

I get excited by many things that I would never approve of in real life.

So do I! It's just that most of the noncon stuff here doesn't excite me at all. There are those I like, though. Power Vacuum is a great example. Technically, 100% of that game is noncon because the entire cast is being continuously drugged to lower their inhibitions and force them to be horny. And yet, I love it! The writing is very good, and quite hilarious. Even the darker NTR scenes are great! It's not a story-first game, though, so it's not on the list

 

[realjitter]

I also played KG because i also like femdom But as jufot already said, F95 femdom is often times told in those extreme scenarios. In KG's case i was really hyped at first when the game started. The whole prison segment, the choice system, the dialog... I really digged it up until the game introduced that one Lady who threw some slave dude over board for..reasons? .
From that point onwards my willingness to submit to some sexy pixel ladys changed to me wanting revenge and murder everyone of them . Sadly you can't do that...I don't remember everything, but at some point i think you're even fucking one of those girls where the MC knew about her having killed some people...

KG also drowns you with every fetish in the book basically, but for some reason i never felt truly dominated in that game..It felt more like meanie girls doing meanie things to people. That being said though, if you're looking for some extreme femdom fantasies with in this case a dystopian setting i'm sure this is as good as it gets. And i would still rate it 5 stars even though i didn't like it. You have to be very blind not to see the amont of detail, work and love that went into making this game...

I think the main problem with femdom games on this site in general (at least for me personally) is that they "all" follow the typical AVN story telling scheme. Lots of women, lots of fetishes and what ends up happening is that you never establish some sort of a relationship with any of them because, like i said, they're all just catering towards a fetish, but rarely they feel like actual Mistresses.

 

[vneotpolemus]

Thoughts on Price of Power:

• The tight narrative scope is a nice change. Too many games think 'more' is always better - Price of Power shows some of the things you can do by staying small and focused. The limited cast and lack of major story branches mean that we get a lot of time with the core characters.
• Maria and the MC were cute. I liked that it wasn't all smooth sailing even though they both know they want to be together more or less from the beginning. Usually fiction (and not just AVNs) comes to a halt as soon as a couple gets together, and either assumes they live happily ever after offscreen, or breaks them up to restore the status quo.
• Jealousy! Usually a very underutilized emotion. It was good to see the character reacting to each other, not just to the MC.
• The Narrator seems to be hit or miss for people. I can see why, but he worked for me. The initial mystery was interesting and once Legacy showed up his blend of exasperation and overconfidence gave me a chuckle. Clever solution for some of the problems inherent in a low-technology setting too.
• The attention to detail was good. Maria and the MC are twenty year old virgins from a socially conservative society and they're figuring shit out as they go along. There's no metal deposits left because we mined them out centuries ago.

Onto the compulsory nitpicking, the pacing has some issues. Some plot points felt rushed (Maria's suspicion towards Emilia), others dragged on (timeskips are criminally underused in AVNs). The writing was heavy handed at times - we're outright told things that would have been better left to be inferred. And the theocracy angle has been done so many times in mainstream culture it's become stale for me. But it's easy to find fault with good stories - even with professional novelists (who have the luxury of editors and multiple redraftings) there's always something that could be better, and often 'better' is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[bacienvu88]

Thoughts on Price of Power:

• The tight narrative scope is a nice change. Too many games think 'more' is always better - Price of Power shows some of the things you can do by staying small and focused. The limited cast and lack of major story branches mean that we get a lot of time with the core characters.
• Maria and the MC were cute. I liked that it wasn't all smooth sailing even though they both know they want to be together more or less from the beginning. Usually fiction (and not just AVNs) comes to a halt as soon as a couple gets together, and either assumes they live happily ever after offscreen, or breaks them up to restore the status quo.
• Jealousy! Usually a very underutilized emotion. It was good to see the character reacting to each other, not just to the MC.
• The Narrator seems to be hit or miss for people. I can see why, but he worked for me. The initial mystery was interesting and once Legacy showed up his blend of exasperation and overconfidence gave me a chuckle. Clever solution for some of the problems inherent in a low-technology setting too.
• The attention to detail was good. Maria and the MC are twenty year old virgins from a socially conservative society and they're figuring shit out as they go along. There's no metal deposits left because we mined them out centuries ago.

Onto the compulsory nitpicking, the pacing has some issues. Some plot points felt rushed (Maria's suspicion towards Emilia), others dragged on (timeskips are criminally underused in AVNs). The writing was heavy handed at times - we're outright told things that would have been better left to be inferred. And the theocracy angle has been done so many times in mainstream culture it's become stale for me. But it's easy to find fault with good stories - even with professional novelists (who have the luxury of editors and multiple redraftings) there's always something that could be better, and often 'better' is in the eye of the beholder.

The problem I have with Legacy is that he is too much of exposition dispenser. And while he seemingly explains things to the MC, what he says mostly only makes sense to the player. From the POV of MC he is the worst teacher ever.

I wish there were more "show" and less "tell" with regards to the backstory.

 

[jufot]

And while he seemingly explains things to the MC, what he says mostly only makes sense to the player.

But it makes sense, no? I mean, imagine meeting a medieval peasant and trying to talk to him about electricity.

 

[bacienvu88]

But it makes sense, no? I mean, imagine meeting a medieval peasant and trying to talk to him about electricity.

Legacy supposedly has very vast knowledge and is very intelligent. And the best lesson plan he can come up with is "I'm just going to tell him stuff as if he is a modern kid, maybe he understands something at least"? Of course, getting him to learn stuff that takes 10-15 years for a modern kid to learn isn't possible in the time frame he has, but at least don't talk down to the MC like he is stupid. I don't know, it rubs me the wrong way.

Another problem with the vast knowledge difference between MC and Legacy is that it robs MC of agency. MC basically has no choice but to do as Legacy says because he has no basis to be able to argue back other than being emotional.

 

[Have_a_great_Day]

I dont know if anyone mentioned these games:

- Eternum : A great scifi game with great visuals, well written story with mysteries and great characters. As far as lewd scenes go its on a mild side but thats not a negative cause the game take its story seriously and its not only for porn. Definitely a recommendation.

- My bully is my lover + life changing choices : both games from niichan hit deep like a leap of faith. The characters of these games are the best aspect in it and the story has a steady pace and each episode has only a flaw it makes you want to play the next to learn what happens with the story and the characters.

- Savior : Another scifi game with a story that reminds me of the tv show "Fringe". The story has a great mystery with a lot of secrets and many characters that are slowly unveiled.

- A.O.A academy : A college game where the focus lies in broken lives with heavy pasts. The characters are well written and the story gets somehow dark but overall it is well written.

- Fresh Women : relative barren and new but very promising(this has been shown during latest releases). Story progresses well and the updates only make it better. Mc seeks answers after losing his memories trying to unravel a mystery about his father.

There are also some other good games but are more focused on sex scenes as a primary factor but have good aspects in them but these are my recommendations for now.

 

[jufot]

but at least don't talk down to the MC like he is stupid. I don't know, it rubs me the wrong way.

I think that's where we differ. I really enjoy Legacy treating MC like a particularly dim-witted child

Another problem with the vast knowledge difference between MC and Legacy is that it robs MC of agency. MC basically has no choice but to do as Legacy says because he has no basis to be able to argue back other than being emotional.

This is fair. I don't really care about the MC, so it doesn't bother me, but I can see why it'd be a problem for most, especially if you're self inserting.

- Savior : Another scifi game with a story that reminds me of the tv show "Fringe". The story has a great mystery with a lot of secrets and many characters that are slowly unveiled.

This is the only one from your list I wasn't already aware of. I love Fringe, so I'm definitely intrigued, but there are some suspicious tags like rape and mind control. How big a role do those play in the game?

 

[vneotpolemus]

Like I said, I can see why he's divisive. My theory on Legacy is that despite his bombast, he was designed purely to kill things and is actually quite limited. So while he has nigh-infinite information and plenty of process power, he's bumbling along through trial and error whenever he comes across a problem outside his intended purpose. He's a high trained grunt bereft of his support network and chain of command.