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Recommending Story-first games

5.00 star(s) 8 Votes

TheimmortalP

Active Member
Jan 4, 2019
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So I decided to give How To Fix The Future a shot over the last 2 days. The beginning was a pain with a super unlikable crypto-bro MC, and a lot of really noticable typos in what felt like a really awkward translation from russian. Once you go through time it's a lot more enjoyable experience, and MC becomes a little more likable. I also really like Liu and Cathy. I also like that you can straight up make it so you don't see an bdsm content(although I imagine that cuts me out from romancing Liu, which is a shame.)
 
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camube

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2022
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Stumbled on this thread by accident (from searching about Deluca), I'll be back in around a month. Let me check out and play the list of games on the first page first!

I have one question though for now. I've heard that Three Rules of Life is abandoned so I decided not to play it, but I'm actually really curious what are the Three Rules of Life according to the game.

Can anyone let me know what the three rules are?
 

boobsrcool

Active Member
Apr 1, 2022
994
821
So I decided to give How To Fix The Future a shot over the last 2 days. The beginning was a pain with a super unlikable crypto-bro MC, and a lot of really noticable typos in what felt like a really awkward translation from russian. Once you go through time it's a lot more enjoyable experience, and MC becomes a little more likable. I also really like Liu and Cathy. I also like that you can straight up make it so you don't see an bdsm content(although I imagine that cuts me out from romancing Liu, which is a shame.)
cathy fan club
 

vneotpolemus

Member
Sep 22, 2019
200
385
It's true that people demand that, but should they and should developers listen to them? It can add up to just another route and I don't think that this content creep by default is a good idea.
That's why professional game developers have mostly turned away from complex branching games. The workload increases exponentially as you add more choices.
 

realjitter

Member
Jun 21, 2021
297
372
Finally found some time to read the latest Nothing is forever update...

Excellent stuff just like the previous chapters, so no real surprise here.
The Olivia background story was interesting and i was a little surprised that the dev referenced chorea huntington..
I'm a Nurse in real life working on a neurology unit and we do have/had patients with this devious, dumb illness.
In the early stages you slowly but surely start losing your motor skills and in the later stages you get dementia on top of that. Cause of death can have multiple reasons.. So yeah, it was a bit weird to pick this specific illness because usually AVN's just go with cancer and be done with it...

Other things i liked was Olivia laughing about all the femdom stuff at the bonfire...
The Deb Femdom route is still pretty good. This time with some (from my perspective) femdom core elements like edging and ruined orgasms. Something you don't see all that often in AVN's. And also the possibility of chastity play gets hinted which can open up all kinds of silly femdom scenarios in the future. Chastity in general is also a good entry point to write some light humiliation imo.

But my favourite part of the game is probably that is has other sexual active men in it other than just the MC.
The difference between having them and not having them is like day and night to me when it comes to immersion. That's also the reason why Our red string is so good in my opinion.
Of course that doesn't fit in every game, but it still feels like a breath of fresh air..
 

FranceToast

Active Member
Donor
Jul 31, 2018
562
897
It's like most things. If you think about the idea (and all the potential problems that might come with it) and say "Yea I totally wanna do that", then yea there's definitely an audience for it. But if you were doing it just for the audience and it wasn't something you really wanted to do? No it'd be a terrible idea.
Thanks for the very detailed answer!

Problem #1 - doing that, you get a LOT of scope creep, very quickly. Unless it's a very short story, once you get further into the game, it becomes hell on a development side to manage everything properly and have it all make sense. The bigger the game, the more issues you'll have on that front. It eventually means either shorter updates, or much longer update cycles.
So the scope creep comes from having to expand the game in other directions because you have shut off one "easy" path (NPC as potential LI to LI), but then have to deal with the NPC still being around the rest of the game, just not as the LI?

Let's say the potential LI shows up in the game from time to time-if the overarching storyline (which is already determined) doesn't hinge on whether they are just good friends or fuckbuddies, but rather, they are just friendly enough to relate together to tell the story, would that be enough to avoid scope creep?

I may also be conflating LI with fuckbuddy, lol.
I guess it would be important to differentiate that some NPCs could be friends (PG), flirty friends (PG-13), friends with benefit friends (R-X), LI's (PG to X).
And you could have potential just casual one-time encounters (PG to X) (I don't have a problem with an MC having casual sex during the game with one-offs, as long as those are also optional for the player).
 

noping123

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Jun 24, 2021
1,729
2,767
So the scope creep comes from having to expand the game in other directions because you have shut off one "easy" path (NPC as potential LI to LI), but then have to deal with the NPC still being around the rest of the game, just not as the LI?

Let's say the potential LI shows up in the game from time to time-if the overarching storyline (which is already determined) doesn't hinge on whether they are just good friends or fuckbuddies, but rather, they are just friendly enough to relate together to tell the story, would that be enough to avoid scope creep?

I may also be conflating LI with fuckbuddy, lol.
I guess it would be important to differentiate that some NPCs could be friends (PG), flirty friends (PG-13), friends with benefit friends (R-X), LI's (PG to X).
And you could have potential just casual one-time encounters (PG to X) (I don't have a problem with an MC having casual sex during the game with one-offs, as long as those are also optional for the player)

Feel free to dm me if you want more info to avoid flooding this thread with off topic posts, but I'll answer this bit:

I'm using LI as a generic term for "anyone you have sex with" more or less.

To answer your first question, yea basically. Even if they completely disappeared, that still presents an issue - how do you reconcile the difference in scenes - if you took their path and now they "exist", or if you didn't and now suddenly they don't. Even if you wrote it to be identical, you'd still need art for them being present and not.

As to your second point..... there are ways to minimize the scope creep, however there's limits on what you should do. The problem is, if you write it in a way that it doesn't matter if they're present or not, they feel unimportant, and players don't care about that character - that's not really something you want.

The other problem is, lets say they don't disappear, they show up from time to time, but what happens is irrelevant of their status with you. Well, that can quickly become an issue too - I know I'm very likely going to have different interactions with someone I just fucked, vs someone I sort of know, vs a good friend, etc etc. If the game is presented in a way where their interactions are identical irrelevant of status, people tend to notice stuff like that, and generally it's disliked.

You can do your best to come up with ways to minimize the differences, while still making things feel "real", but there's a limit to how much of that you can do before people start rejecting it. No matter what you do, unless you just say fuck it and make a game where your choices don't matter aside from what scenes you see, you WILL run into scope creep, and it will get exponentially bigger the longer the game goes on. There really isn't a way to avoid that once you start off with those sorts of decisions. (Actually there are ways to fix it, but that goes beyond the scope of what I'm talking about so I won't get into it, but basically it involves finding ways to consolidate your storyline to bring the creep back in line a little bit. It's doable but tricky to pull off without it feeling forced or weird).

I think personally any time you approach any sort of game where you'll have these sorts of decisions and you'll be creating a path for people to choose things that ultimately will have an effect on the actual game/gameplay/whatever, the most important thing to do is start with a solid, thought out story. It is a *lot* easier to create these sorts of scenarios within the confines of the story you wrote, than it is to just "go" - because if you do that, it's real easy to let things get out of control real quick.
 
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bacienvu88

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2021
1,714
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That's why professional game developers have mostly turned away from complex branching games. The workload increases exponentially as you add more choices.
While it is true that workload increases a lot with branching. It is also true that workload increases about the same with increasingly better real time graphics. The big problem is if you want both. I think you can get a whole lot of branches if you have 200 people working on the game if you aren't too demanding with your graphics or uses stills / short static videos as in VN:s for your game.
 

FranceToast

Active Member
Donor
Jul 31, 2018
562
897
Ok back on subject (sorry)
I took a rather long break from VNs (couple of years) but am back and am back on The Deluca Family (I actually patreoned this one when it first came out and until I took my break-I'll start up again soon Hopes!)
1) One of the interesting things about it at the time was...no sex, but lots of relationship stuff, and a weird mini-game and a story that I was pretty curious about where it was going-it had me hooked-a mix of humor and violence.

2) Couple years later...still no sex yet! (I'm pretty impressed to be honest)...lots of relationship stuff, a totally new more involved mini game, and the story...holy shit the story got dark. Damn.
 

Tlaero

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Nov 24, 2018
1,068
5,251
If you have a game with multiple LIs, and you don't require that the player romance all of them, then aren't you most of the way there toward letting the player romance none of them? You've still got to write every scene as though you did and did not romance this character.

Even in a harem game, if you let the player choose the order to romance the LIs, then you've got to write all their scenes as though he hadn't gotten around to them yet.

That said, I feel that a VN without sex scenes would have an even smaller market than one with just "vanilla" sex scenes. Kinks are where the money is. So go in with eyes open. I 1000% agree though, that you should write the game you want to play. Chasing the money will just wear you out (and there are far better ways to make money). If you write the game you want, then at least the person who really maters will like it.

Tlaero
 

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
1,562
3,519
That said, I feel that a VN without sex scenes would have an even smaller market than one with just "vanilla" sex scenes. Kinks are where the money is.
Kind of a tangent, but there are game studios that successfully publish non-sexual VNs, however rare. comes to mind. They've been making VNs since 2015 and have released three so far, with a fourth on the way this year. I enjoyed all of them, and even have print artwork of their oldest game Along The Edge.

I know it's not a great fit for this thread, but I figured if any VN audience would be receptive, it'd be the people here :)
 

realjitter

Member
Jun 21, 2021
297
372
Kind of a tangent, but there are game studios that successfully publish non-sexual VNs, however rare. comes to mind. They've been making VNs since 2015 and have released three so far, with a fourth on the way this year. I enjoyed all of them, and even have print artwork of their oldest game Along The Edge.

I know it's not a great fit for this thread, but I figured if any VN audience would be receptive, it'd be the people here :)
Looks pretty good, especially the artwork of Along the Edge. Definitely gonna check them out. Are they like kinetic stories or?
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,369
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But my favourite part of the game is probably that is has other sexual active men in it other than just the MC.
The difference between having them and not having them is like day and night to me when it comes to immersion.
Carl is a great character. Dude leans dominant and is incompatible with being the sub, but he has enough balls and self assurance to try pretty much anything to make it work with Deb. I mean, the MC cucks him that one time and he even admits to getting pegged, but no one would think less of him the way he is written. When you convince him to let off some steam by making use of the open relationship, you can see how much weight he's been carrying around. Relationships are supposed to be a 2 way street, but he was the one making all the concessions. Deb was being selfish and remains so by being jealous when she sees him with the karaoke chick.
 

realjitter

Member
Jun 21, 2021
297
372
Carl is a great character. Dude leans dominant and is incompatible with being the sub, but he has enough balls and self assurance to try pretty much anything to make it work with Deb. I mean, the MC cucks him that one time and he even admits to getting pegged, but no one would think less of him the way he is written. When you convince him to let off some steam by making use of the open relationship, you can see how much weight he's been carrying around. Relationships are supposed to be a 2 way street, but he was the one making all the concessions. Deb was being selfish and remains so by being jealous when she sees him with the karaoke chick.
Totally agree with you on Carl. There's also Jamie who'd, in most other AVN's, be the guy who gets ridiculed by the developer by making him more of a loser who always trys to pick up girls but never succeeds.. But here he's just simply a guy who wins and fails at what he does and is also in an open relationship with an LI... I'm not so sure about Peter and what his role will be, could be anything to be honest. Either way, i have a feeling this game will become pretty "wild" at some point.

I just played the Emma femdom route which is more based on humiliation and there's a scene where the MC basically loses all his dignity and self respect in just this one scene.. it's kinda funny actually. All masculinity just gone...a thing of the past. Now i'm actually a bit interested in how the maledom stuff is written in this game.
 
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camube

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2022
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Totally agree with you on Carl. There's also Jamie who'd, in most other AVN's, be the guy who gets ridiculed by the developer by making him more of a loser who always trys to pick up girls but never succeeds.. But here he's just simply a guy who wins and fails at what he does and is also in an open relationship with an LI... I'm not so sure about Peter and what his role will be, could be anything to be honest. Either way, i have a feeling this game will become pretty "wild" at some point.

I just played the Emma femdom route which is more based on humiliation and there's a scene where the MC basically loses all his dignity and self respect in just this one scene.. it's kinda funny actually. All masculinity just gone...a thing of the past. Now i'm actually a bit interested in how the maledom stuff is written in this game.
Kim femdom path is also interesting. If you are subservient to Kim during the coffee shop conversation and mostly more of a Sensitive person, the chapter 4 Kim's scene is different.
 

Hahn1900

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2021
1,487
3,330
I love this thread and the List at the first page is pretty nice too... BUT maybe you can consider to overlook it a little bit regarding the development status... in fact, some games are dead.

Like Relucant Archon or Mad World.
Or like Three rules of Life where everybody can see that there is no development progress anymore and only Wallpapers are released, and this will not change if you watch the project closely. I think those games can be deleted from the list. Or maybe you move them in another list for "paused/dead" games with some hope left that they will be continued (but these examples i wrote defintily will not be continued)
 

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
1,562
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Reluctant Archon is likely dead, yes. Mad World is active, no matter what the F95 thread says. Hell, the latest development update on Patreon was barely 10 days ago! Three Rules of Life only has wallpapers on Patreon, true, but it does mean the developer is still around.

Ultimately, I don't care about any sort of timeline. I support developers who barely make one release per year, and it's fine by me because it's the vision I care about, not the schedule. The list in the OP reflects that :)
 

Raife

Active Member
May 16, 2018
620
1,081
Ultimately, I don't care about any sort of timeline. I support developers who barely make one release per year, and it's fine by me because it's the vision I care about, not the schedule. The list in the OP reflects that :)
Exactly. What matters is quality games with good stories... not how long it takes to complete them.

I _never_ press devs to hit particular timetables for deliverables -- quite the opposite.
 
5.00 star(s) 8 Votes