Recommending Story-first games

[jufot]

Inner Empire

Thanks for the recommendation, but are you sure? I said "without anything non-consensual whatsoever" and I can see several such tags as groping, rape, and sexual harassment.

 

[Ukghar]

Thanks for the recommendation, but are you sure? I said "without anything non-consensual whatsoever" and I can see several such tags as groping, rape, and sexual harassment.

No. I’m drunk, so don’t trust me 100 % now. The title is the closest recommendation I could think of, knowing your preferences.

1) “Unpleasantries like rape” don’t appear as scenes/events apart from a chosen origin. In the case of rape victim origin, you can expect e.g.

Spoiler

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Don’t choose “Survivor” origin if it bothers you (but that’s my favorite origin, by the way).

2) “Slavery” - exists in the setting; characters mention it, but no events of enslavement, nor any slaves met by MC afaik.

3) “Mind control” -I saw nothing close to it.

4) “Anything non-consensual” has a very vast range, so sure. The game punishes the player for stupid choices, and MC can be forceful if that’s your preferred playstyle. I usually succeed in avoiding stupid choices and don’t play in forceful style, so the possibility of seeing non-consensual content slipped from my mind. Sorry for that.

 

[jufot]

“Anything non-consensual” has a very vast range, so sure. The game punishes the player for stupid choices, and MC can be forceful if that’s your preferred playstyle. I usually succeed in avoiding stupid choices and don’t play in forceful style, so the possibility of seeing non-consensual content slipped from my mind. Sorry for that.

No worries and again, thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Cskin Games]

Just don't bury the main story _completely_ in the upcoming chapters. It can recede... but don't let it disappear entirely. The one thing that bothered me about _Alive_ is that you totally subsumed the MC's background motivation to the point where it became invisible... until it reappeared with a bang. I would have liked a few more breadcrumbs. Just a few!

But kudos: the fact that you got jufot to play a college game and _like_ it, despite his chronic case of NACGB (it's like a case of the clap... he may say it's gone, but...) is a massive accomplishment. I enjoyed the first chapter a great deal too... it's better than _Alive_ thus far -- which was a good game.

And, yes... as jufot says... go for _real_ romantic tension, angst and hurt... although it will get you endless shit from some players on this site.

I'm not going to respond much. I will say, as always though, I'm telling the story I want to tell, in the way I want to tell it, and I'm not going to let comments influence that. It didn't influence alive (The only influence people ever had on it were making minigames optional since they weren't at first, and making the opening scenes with tonya/gaby optional, as originally one or the other was forced) - and it won't influence this one.

What I will say is, this game has a bit of an element of "Build your own MC" in it - that is, (and CH1 already saw a bit of this, Ch2 more, and it'll just continue from there) the MC will be different, act different, and make different choices, depending on the choices you make along the way. For example, there's one scene in Ch2 that only happens with a very specific set of choices in Ch1 - but otherwise it doesn't. There's a lot of that to come, and idk if it'll make sense to everyone else, but it makes sense to me.

As far as the main story goes? It's funny. Pretty much no one saw the final scene coming until it happened. Meanwhile, I wrote every scene with that in mind. In that regard, there's stuff even in the game now, that much later on people will go "Oh. I get it."

What I'm trying to say is, the next couple of chapters won't have a ton of main story.... on the surface. But there's actually quite a lot.... if you pay attention and look for it.

Ok I responded much, I lied apparently.

 

[Ukghar]

No worries and again, thanks for the recommendation.

If "something without consent" mainly refers to things related to sex, then I have a very good suggestion.

I. Without sex content and with fan debate, how much it's Choose Your Own Adventure game:

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by Torpor Games.

1. Without sex content: One or two scenes when sex is implied (characters are going to the bedroom), but you may not even see it, as it depends on your choices.
2. Choose Your Own Adventure: IMO, it's Choose Your Own Adventure. Some people point out that it's politically concentrated, has strategy elements, and the most important is how the country is run. True to that, but it doesn't rule out CYOA. The MC is the president whose minimal aim is to be elected again. When the game is mostly linear, many international and country events will happen regardless of choices; situations can change significantly depending on player choices. Even some big events can occur or don't occur, depending on player choices. Players can make important decisions (what can be limited by laws, political influence, obstructed by factions, etc.) and lots of less important ones. Players can decide where to send MC and how to approach meetings to the extent of choosing exact words (from presented options, as in most visual novels). The possibilities of small changes are impressive. Even after many playthroughs, I saw a lot of possibilities that I was unaware of (when I checked the script).

No: rape, slavery, mind control.

II. As for non-consensual content - genocide, discrimination, homicides, things that can happen to MC.

1. Genocide - indirect participation of MC in genocide is optional. I'm not sure if preventing genocide is possible as it's a different country's agenda.
2. Discrimination of minorities and women resembles this from about 1950 in some countries (the country MC is in charge of is modeled on Turkey from about 1950). MC can aim to end discrimination against minorities and women and even succeed far ahead of his time.
3. Homicides - I don't want to spoil. Most optional/avoidable anyway.
4. Things that can happen to MC - I don't want to spoil. Not all mistakes are punishable, as anything happening to MC depends on lots of factors. It mostly serves as bad endings (which can actually have lots of text and some choices).

III. Various remarks:

1. The best way to play this game is to play blind, at least till the first success (reelection of the MC). After that, check only short general information about possible different "paths" without specifics. Choosing another path and trying to succeed. After succeeding in all paths, checking all data on all topics of interest, as succeeding in a blind playthrough most likely required some uncomfortable compromises (that can be rid of).

2. That's a challenging game. At least, it was not easy for me. Some people claim that they were able to win without prior knowledge of what to choose. If you're in that lucky group, simply select a different path. The other ways should be a significant challenge for you.

PS. Suzerain had a big update recently. I judged it as fitting mostly according to the previous version, but from what I saw after the update - the game is even better.

 

[bacienvu88]

Chapter 18 of Price of Power is out on

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and

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.

 

[Raife]

Chapter 18 of Price of Power is out on

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and

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.

Played it this morning. It's OK, but... I don't think Panda nails the 'we need a Throuple' conversation. He makes a valiant effort, to be sure, but I still don't buy the way that scenario played out. It's still too easy. If he dials the jealousy up to 10, creates serious tension, and perhaps even a breakup of some sort _that_ would be interesting... as well as more realistic.

But I just don't see most humans reasoning through the situation so logically. It's more like machine logic (see what I did there).

 

[jufot]

Played it this morning. It's OK, but... I don't think Panda nails the 'we need a Throuple' conversation. He makes a valiant effort, to be sure, but I still don't buy the way that scenario played out. It's still too easy. If he dials the jealousy up to 10, creates serious tension, and perhaps even a breakup of some sort _that_ would be interesting... as well as more realistic.

Agreed. It's excessively mechanical and far too drama-free for a throuple. There has to be jealousy, insults, name-calling, breakup-but-not-really and therapy (with Legacy & Eve) before that last scene.

 

[Sharinel]

jufot - Did you ever look at The Intoxicating Flavor ? I came back to it after a year or so away and still really like the story, and peeling back the onion skin that is the relationships of the four people on the island. The supernatural element is just a bonus for me.

 

[jufot]

@jufot - Did you ever look at The Intoxicating Flavor ?

Never heard of it, actually. The synopsis doesn't sound particularly inspiring but I'll add it to the backlog.

 

[Sharinel]

Never heard of it, actually. The synopsis doesn't sound particularly inspiring but I'll add it to the backlog.

I was referencing this from aggggeeeeesssss ago. Obviously didn't get around to it

Likewise, thanks for your list bacienvu88! I'm familiar with all of those games and yes, I love lesbian stuff The only one I haven't played yet is The Intoxicating Flavour so I'll definitely give that one a shot. I'll also update my OP with some of these games.

 

[Tulrek]

Agreed. It's excessively mechanical and far too drama-free for a throuple. There has to be jealousy, insults, name-calling, breakup-but-not-really and therapy (with Legacy & Eve) before that last scene.

If you don't mind me saying so, I don't totally agree with both of you.
I thought the exchange pretty logical.
Hear me say: They just fought some raiders, they helped remnants women to be freed.
So the situation is not normal and Maria is also very grounded and self-aware of her own default.
I though the progression way more realistic that in most of the others throuple/harem games.
She is reluctant but open the door and MC is not jumping right away, he express his doubts also.

Doing so will help to advance more quiclky in the story I think and not wasting too much time in back and forth on thus situation.
Story first !

Overall I liked it a lot.

 

[Shiva11]

Like to recommend a story called Broken Dreams. https://f95zone.to/threads/broken-dreams-v0-3-biggering.124830/
It's about a psychologist working at a girl's school. Game has more depth and emotional content than what I expected. MC starts out as an unlikable character but after a near-death experience he begins to grow as a person and begins to really help some of the students who come to him. Does not have a whole lot of choices and there is an in-game guide that does a good job of holding your hand through the story if you want that.
I'm a fan of psychological story lines and this fits that bill. If this is your kind of thing give it a try. You will find some quite emotional moments as you play. Enjoy.
Oh ... I recommend you play with the music on. Developer has done a great job of including music that really adds to the mood of scenes.

 

[turbojoe]

A point that i was trying to make was that there are a lot of games that jufot doesn't like but many others do, and when someone new comes here, they have to read through 170 pages to find suggestions for good games (other then the ones in op of course). But of course I also understand that list in OP is his taste so it makes sense not to add games there (even as separate list)

Anyway, here are some games I like, but most were already discussed previously


Snow Storm

100% agree!
In the Toro 7 thread I found by chance postings from member JJJ84 with a picture of Snow Storm in his signature.

I gave this game a try and was overwhelmed
Not enough the really well and intense composed story in Vikings ambience with historic background the MC has to decide to join into 3 different clans, so you can enjoy 3 different playthroughs (I proceed with the second now).
Even some RPG elements are included.

I wonder why jufot doesn´t list this amazing game further, maybe cuz the story isn´t finished yet?

 

[Ukghar]

A point that i was trying to make was that there are a lot of games that jufot doesn't like but many others do, and when someone new comes here, they have to read through 170 pages to find suggestions for good games (other then the ones in op of course). But of course I also understand that list in OP is his taste so it makes sense not to add games there (even as separate list)

Anyway, here are some games I like, but most were already discussed previously

Defending Lydia Collier
Artemis
Projekt: Passion
Between Two Worlds
Chasing Sunsets
Dreams of Reality
Snow Storm
Banking on Bella
Desert Stalker - definitely on the porny side but story is good also
City of Broken Dreamers - went downhill since first chapters, but i think that it still has potential if it finishes good
The Swordbearer
How to Fix the Future
Leap of Faith
The Intoxicating Flavor
Depraved Awakening

100% agree!
In the Toro 7 thread I found by chance postings from member JJJ84 with a picture of Snow Storm in his signature.

I gave this game a try and was overwhelmed
Not enough the really well and intense composed story in Vikings ambience with historic background the MC has to decide to join into 3 different clans, so you can enjoy 3 different playthroughs (I proceed with the second now).
Even some RPG elements are included.

I wonder why jufot doesn´t list this amazing game further, maybe cuz the story isn´t finished yet?

I agree with both of you.

It would be great, if there would be something like an additional section in the first post called “People's recommendations” or something similar with recommendation from other people that didn’t make it to the main jufot’s list for any reason.

That way he keeps his reputation of having high standards, and people have more (usually) good games listed to try.

 

[EndlessNights]

It would be great, if there would be something like an additional section in the first post called “People's recommendations” or something similar with recommendation from other people that didn’t make it to the main jufot’s list for any reason.

That way he keeps his reputation of having high standards, and people have more (usually) good games listed to try.

I would say anyone who strongly wants to share their own list of story-focused games should start their own rec thread. Diversity and friendly competition are good things. Adding other people's recommendations to the OP is in my opinion problematic for a number of reasons: it would increase jufot's administrative workload, it would make the OP more chaotic and confusing, and it would likely undermine the criteria jufot set out to define what "story-first" means in his view. I imagine it also wouldn't feel very good to feel obligated to add other people's recommendations to the OP that you might completely disagree with.

Everyone of course has their own opinions. There are games on the list that would never make it on mine if I did one and a fair number of games I esteem will likely never win jufot's favor. I still prefer the thread continue as is. The system works well, and we have a culture that lets us discuss any game in the thread even if it has virtually no chance of making the list. Let's not mess too much with a good thing!

 

[Ukghar]

I would say anyone who strongly wants to share their own list of story-focused games should start their own rec thread. Diversity and friendly competition are good things. Adding other people's recommendations to the OP is in my opinion problematic for a number of reasons: it would increase jufot's administrative workload, it would make the OP more chaotic and confusing, and it would likely undermine the criteria jufot set out to define what "story-first" means in his view. I imagine it also wouldn't feel very good to feel obligated to add other people's recommendations to the OP that you might completely disagree with.

Everyone of course has their own opinions. There are games on the list that would never make it on mine if I did one and a fair number of games I esteem will likely never win jufot's favor. I still prefer the thread continue as is. The system works well, and we have a culture that lets us discuss any game in the thread even if it has virtually no chance of making the list. Let's not mess too much with a good thing!

I agree that would add “jufot’s administrative workload.” It’s a valid and important argument. But, with all due respect, from my perspective, the only valid argument from all you provided.

“it would make the OP more chaotic and confusing, and it would likely undermine the criteria jufot set out to define what >>story-first<< means in his view” - As I said, adding “an additional section in the first post called >>People’s recommendations<<” would be great. If putting it in a different part of the post with a name stating that it’s not jufot’s opinion is not enough, the text (under the subtitle “People’s recommendations” or as part of the primary explanation) can state that it’s not jufot’s opinion. Each game can have information about who recommended it and why, as well as even jufot’s personal opinion about the game. That’s the maximum measurement for clarity I can think of for now (likely, there is no need to go that far). The first post would definitely become bigger, but it still can be orderly and transparent.

“I imagine it also wouldn’t feel very good to feel obligated to add other people’s recommendations to the OP that you might completely disagree with.” - It depends on the views/personality. If somebody thinks that only his truth should exist - he would be very uncomfortable with adding others’ opinions for sure. If sb can agree that different views exist and what’s best for himself may not be the best for others and wants to help others - he would be pleased to add other people’s recommendations.

Anyway, tx for your opinion. Even if I mostly disagree, it was good to see it from another perspective.

 

[moskyx]

I agree that would add “jufot’s administrative workload.” It’s a valid and important argument. But, with all due respect, from my perspective, the only valid argument from all you provided.

“it would make the OP more chaotic and confusing, and it would likely undermine the criteria jufot set out to define what >>story-first<< means in his view” - As I said, adding “an additional section in the first post called >>People’s recommendations<<” would be great. If putting it in a different part of the post with a name stating that it’s not jufot’s opinion is not enough, the text (under the subtitle “People’s recommendations” or as part of the primary explanation) can state that it’s not jufot’s opinion. Each game can have information about who recommended it and why, as well as even jufot’s personal opinion about the game. That’s the maximum measurement for clarity I can think of for now (likely, there is no need to go that far). The first post would definitely become bigger, but it still can be orderly and transparent.

“I imagine it also wouldn’t feel very good to feel obligated to add other people’s recommendations to the OP that you might completely disagree with.” - It depends on the views/personality. If somebody thinks that only his truth should exist - he would be very uncomfortable with adding others’ opinions for sure. If sb can agree that different views exist and what’s best for himself may not be the best for others and wants to help others - he would be pleased to add other people’s recommendations.

Anyway, tx for your opinion. Even if I mostly disagree, it was good to see it from another perspective.

He already said it's his own list and no one else's and he's not going to do that, so I don't get the need to keep pushing it. This is not a public service for finding good story-based games but just a personal list that then evolved into a respectful thread discussing them - and many more. It's more about people suggesting new games that may fit the list (and/or maybe qualify for others' in the process) than anything else. If people want broader recommendations and don't want to read the full thread, they should open their own, new thread stating their tastes and asking for new inputs.

 

[Ukghar]

He already said it's his own list and no one else's and he's not going to do that, so I don't get the need to keep pushing it. This is not a public service for finding good story-based games but just a personal list that then evolved into a respectful thread discussing them - and many more. It's more about people suggesting new games that may fit the list (and/or maybe qualify for others' in the process) than anything else. If people want broader recommendations and don't want to read the full thread, they should open their own, new thread stating their tastes and asking for new inputs.

Pushing it? I said: " It would be great, if there would be something like an additional section in the first post called >>People's recommendations<< or something similar with recommendation from other people that didn’t make it to the main jufot’s list for any reason".
I shared my opinion. Am I not allowed to do it? More people share this opinion or similar, and imo they should be able to voice it. I can understand that you may see it as unnecessary to voice similar opinions by lots of people, but by limiting that right, you are greatly unaware of how many people support it, as some people already have a habit of not voicing their opinion if they see similar opinion to theirs.

I also see a weak point in your advice: " If people want broader recommendations and don't want to read the full thread, they should open their own, new thread stating their tastes and asking for new inputs." As you stated yourself, the thread evolved. Most people come here for recommendations of games with well-written stories. Even most of the people who want to discuss these games are here also for recommendations of games with well-written stories. As such, this place is the best to make an aggregating thread of all games with story-first games. Modifying it in that way is also in accordance with the title of this thread - jufot’s didn't title it "Story-first games imo" but "Story-first games." This thread claims by title to collect all the games that put the story first. Making another would bring more chaos and confusion (chaos and confusion is what
EndlessNights is against btw) as all (or most) people interested in games with well-written stories come here. When I can't be 100% sure of turbojoe's and p1n3@5573's opinions, I think that we also trust that jufot wouldn't intentionally omit titles other people had provided if he would agreed to add them. Imo adding people’s recommendations here would be the best possible outcome from a utilitarian point of view.

Sadly, tags like "well-written story" can't fulfill the need for an aggregating thread of all games with well-written stories because lots of devs would add it, even if the games don't deserve it, and some humble devs would omit it, even if their games would deserve it. And mods are against "well-written story" or similar tags. As much as it can differ, players' judgment is still more accurate and objective as the part of loving (or hating) their own creation is absent.

Because of that, at some point, making an aggregating thread of all games with well-written stories without jufot may be sad and ineffective, bringing chaos and confusion only option, if the option of expanding the first post in this thread is unavailable.

Thank you for your post, as tx to it I was able to share my opinion to a greater extent.

 

[EndlessNights]

This thread claims by title to collect all the games that put the story first. Making another would bring more chaos and confusion

The Recommendations & Identification section is designed to house as many rec threads as people want to create. There are already multiple (1) story-focused (2) threads (3) and there will be more in the future -- it's a given and the nature of the beast. None of them have quite taken off like this thread has, true, but to me that just means jufot was on to something when he started the list. His vision has clearly resonated with a lot of users, and he's done a great job maintaining the list and been a fantastic participant in our spirited discussions over the years. He knows what he's doing and I still see no reason to deviate from his original plan.

I would argue that any story-first games list is going to have an element of subjectivity to it. No such thread can be exactly like CBoyC's Lesbian Protagonist Games List and simply collect all games of a specific type based on completely objective criteria. Any list is going to leave games out that have stories that certain people like. However, if you take the approach that everyone should be able to add any game they like to the list with no rigor or oversight we won't be able to really have a thread like this in the first place. It'll turn into a "Games with stories someone liked" thread and over time every adult game with a fan base will inevitably get added to the user-submitted list.

Lots of people no doubt think Summertime Saga and WVM have great stories...their opinions are certainly valid (and I myself have a bit of a soft spot for one of those two games), but I don't think most of the regular audience here comes to this thread looking for super porny recommendations like that. Some people might even decide to add bad games to the list to troll...what mechanism would stop them if every opinion is truly equal? You are concerned about devs abusing a well-written story tag, but they could still add their own games to a user-submitted part of this list unless they are expressly excluded.

In practice, I think we'd end up with two lists -- the "real" list by jufot and the unvetted, unmanageable free-for-all you propose. I don't think that'd be a better situation in any way...in fact, if we can't point to one list as "the list" it's practically like not having a list at all. People could justifiably complain, "What's with all the criticism of Summertime Saga? It's on the list so it's obviously story-first!"