- Thread starter UncleVT
- Start date
indio68
Forum Fanatic
- Sep 26, 2020
- 4,344
- 3,765
what a great game... the only thing i hate is that i will have to choose 1 girl sooner or later..this is killing me... why don't make an harem path...girls are all so interesting and lovable and hot... each one with her strenghts and trait... will be an hard choice for sure.. when times cmome..for now i trying to be with all of them
ModiThorrson
Active Member
- Jan 1, 2024
- 652
- 1,180
honestly there are sooooo many harem games, it's kinda nice when you find one where that's not the intent. but really you can mess around with everyone anyway so it'll likely only affect the ending.
Well some (potentially) goodish news then. The dev plans for 2 throuple paths, so you can possibly pick 2 in a run.
It's of course your choice to have a least favourite LI, but honestly you seem to be overstretching a bit. You mean, her army buddy digging up on Valentine? I can't remember them recording his phone calls.
First of all, remind me what conversation did she secretly record?
The beach fight in Mallorca was nowhere near her fault. She tells the therapist that she wanted them to swing but that's all. Those idiots harrassed Viridiana and Ines. Valentine of course stepped up and Elspeth actually had his back. All she said before the encounter was "actually three" since they were talking about two cuties surrounding Valentine.
Yes, her curiosity gets her time to time but I wouldn't call her a stalker.
About her asking the therapist what he thinks of Valentine is in no shape or form stalking. She talks about him a lot, even tells about him to her mom, friends, her pastry shop owner. So she wanted to talk about Valentine with her therapist as well. But the therapist cuts her. There's no malice behind her actions, just an unquenchable curiosity of a genius, towards someone she is in love, or was falling for. Besides, she is of noble blood, which necessitates of her digging into Valentine, in order to avoid a huge scandal once they decide to marry.
HonoredEx
Member
- May 2, 2017
- 286
- 372
From your pov you can have your favs but from what we know till now about her, that is a bit of a stretch.
If you are talking about leaving her purse to record the convo with her dad, I didnt really found it invasive, she was intelligence OP and wanted to know what her dad would say to 'The guy she was with' and I am not even sure that actually happened because you dont see her checking it if you decide to stay with her and go down to the pool.
The provoking strangers is waaaaaay over-stretch, those guys WERE gonna fight regardless of Els or not, Hell they had gotten into fights before (i think even in the same night), Els being there was actually good backup, sort-of show casing that 'she has his back'
And nothing else is stalkery about her? Just because the woman is very direct about the MC and makes herself /her wants clear doesnt mean she is crossing a line. Recommending the therapist was from the 'good' of her heart, this happens whether you are on her path or not I think and there wasnt any indication that therapist was gonna share notes or anything about MC with her.
So idk where you are getting the 'unethical' ploy from.
Alfred the Fallen
Member
- Dec 29, 2018
- 454
- 2,731
The one where she pretended to forget her purse and left it so that Valentine would take it with him as he talked with her father.
It was 100% her fault. She instigated it because Viri told her that he used to enjoy fighting. She saw this as a potential bonding opportunity and that's why she does the whole pantsless bullshit later on.
Here's the actual beach incident that occurs after the says "actually three"
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
So she insults the guy by calling him soft, and then goes off on weird rant about how awesome she is, which they have absolutely no reason to believe. She basically does the navy seals copypasta and makes a complete fool of herself.
Now, if you were to believe that Elspeth is a super genius like the game keeps insisting (but never showing) then you would expect her to be able to diffuse this situation quickly. For example, she could have them do a quick google search for Valentine and his professional MMA record which would back up Valentine's stance. But she doesn't do that because she wants the fight.
She's known him less than a year and they aren't very close. There is a scene where Valentine tells her that he's surprised that she has a photo of him in her room, since he thought they were more both friends of McNabb's than they were of each other. He even says that he could count on one hand the number of times they hung out one on one.
So it's very much not okay for her to be secretly recording him, accessing his private files, sabotaging potential relationships (Katie and Kana), or anything of that nature. That's all stalker shit. All of it. You don't get to say that it's totally fine because you don't believe she has any malice. She's absurdly entitled to the point where she doesn't believe others have a right to privacy because her desires are more important than theirs.
WTF???
SHE DOES THIS SHIT IF THEY AREN'T EVEN DATING!
Dude, seriously... play the other routes sometimes and see what she's like.
Oh, you mean she reacts to Valentine's conversation with her dad while she's not there...
Well, she is literally an intelligence officer. Besides there may be more than one reason behind that. And she snoops a lot. She stick her nose to wherever she wants to. Valentine is already aware of that. And she sure makes us suspicious. Though I need much more than what we have so far, to call it malicious.
Naaah! The fight breaks out no matter what. And I don't see Elspeth's words as taunting, more like intimidation. But even if it was taunting, so what? Those guys were high on cocain and Elspeth had Valentine's back. You may call it a 3d chess and you very well may be right but...
First of all, we don't know the women digging Valentine's past are doing that for Elspeth. They are doing that for someone, and one of them says "there's an other interested party". Besides, Elspeth thinks Anastasia, if that's in fact her of course, is dead and Sara isn't even in London. And she genuinely feels hurt for Anastasia's death. One of the parties may be Elspeth's dad, but I really don't think it's her who hired those two to dig up on Valentine. After all, Sara was in the Royal Army, and her abilities should be quite well known for many people in or in business with the British Government. And to tell you the truth, I think the other party is His Majesty's Government, and they are digging because of Valentine's citizenship application.
Besides I don't know who Katie is, but Elspeth never does anything to sabotage Valentine's chances with any other woman. She even helps Viridiana to open up to Valentine about her feelings. She keeps reminding people that she wants him all for herself, yet she doesn't expect Valentine to go monogamous with her just because they finally shagged. She even gave Valentine "the look" when Kana showed up in the Centre.
Back to their cinema date... Valentine talks with either Zaina or Davis, and he says "she's overbearing, smug, distant" and Zaina/Davis adds "dangerous". And that's true to the teeth.
And after the fight in Mallorca, Valentine forces her to sit down and have him take care of her nose bleed. He says: Forcing somebody into something for their own good? Who could have normalized that in our friendship?
So it's not just Elspeth who is overbearing and Valentine is not just aware of that, but also participate as well.
And about "even when they aren't dating" thing... A friend of Elspeth died because she didn't force them to get help, when she could. She told that to Viridiana when they were discussing Valentine on the beach.
About others' privacy thing... SHE IS AN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER! Intelligence people have a need to know drive. They gather intel because knowledge is power. You can't blame a genius, who already has inherent curiosity, intelligence officer, whose job is being curious, for gathering intel, about someone they love/care.
BTW... May I remind you Els-Val pillow talk? She confesses Valentine the exact moment where she was "smitten" about him. They were visiting a museum and Valentine started explaining an artifact, in painful detail, to Amrit. So they know eachother for a year, and though he already made an impression on her via McNab, and how he treated her once they've met.
I know she is suspicious and dangerous but I really don't think she's a danger for Valentine, as she already told Viridiana. I already talked here about "i hope she didn't hurt Valentine personally" in multiple occasions. But we need to wait and see how STWA will untangle the story for that. But Elspeth is my favourite LI until I see a real reason to discard her.
Dr.TSoni
Engaged Member
- May 20, 2022
- 2,474
- 7,666
It's not an excuse, that's fucking stalker behavior
She admits to the shrink
HonoredEx
Member
- May 2, 2017
- 286
- 372
Man if you think thats stalkery behaviour than you dont know social-media digging the average woman/girl does for guys irl, especially the more smarter ones.
the only real thing she did was use her phone to record convo with that.
And the thing she admits to the shrink is that she enjoyed it, which DUH.
Remember Serana tells us that those two had a record of getting into trouble, the fight would have happened either way.
Stalkers and spies may look similar in a lot of ways but it's not the same.
Wanting them to fight and provoking them isn't the same. Besides, she explains why she wanted them to swing: They threatened Valentine!
Valentine and Elspeth are really like a newly mated wolf couple. They will go bat shit crazy to protect eachother. This is why Elspeth is by far the BEST LI. That wannabe pacifist will fuck anyone up for even looking anybody she loves funny. And she will definitely go Avengers if any thing happens to Valentine.
Honestly guys. What more would a man want from a woman? Loyalty to the death and walking into hell with/for Valentine is the name of the game with Elspeth. And how can she protect those she loves if she doesn't know everything there's to know. I' don't expect you all to admire that, but you certainly need to appreciate it.
Dr.TSoni
Engaged Member
- May 20, 2022
- 2,474
- 7,666
Are we really comparing checking your crush's social media to recording their private conversations?
Literally in the scene Elspeth provokes them and then says that she wanted the fight, there is nothing in doubt.
The "wannabe pacifist" is Elspeth's mask, not her personality, as for Valentine it is the "careless womanizer"
How can she be the best option if she doesn't want anything Valentine offers?
HonoredEx
Member
- May 2, 2017
- 286
- 372
You used the word 'stalking' so yes both of these things are comparable, If you met a girl's dad and the dad told the girl to go away so he can 'talk with him', She goes away but stands near the door to hear what they talking about, Is that also stalkery?
Because that is essentially what happened.
Els was intimidating them by telling them she is military trained not some busty bimbo they can take down, and are you still ignoring the fact that those two had gotten into fights/trouble before? They would have done it anyway, they literally were trying to gang up on MC (2 vs 1) till Els came around. The problem with 'she wanted to fight' implies that she would started the fight even if they had backed off, she wouldnt have. The fault lies on the drunk people who threw the first punch because they couldnt handle being talked down by a girl.
She wants MC's acceptance tho? She thinks he will be the only one with whom she can be fully honest, Thats what MC can offer her, acceptance for both the good and bad shite she had to do in her past.
Dr.TSoni
Engaged Member
- May 20, 2022
- 2,474
- 7,666
Not really, since she's the one who leaves them alone with a hidden tape recorder, no one tries to oust her from a conversation about her.
It's difficult to say for sure given that before Elspeth's intervention no one closes the distance but simply limits themselves to barking at Valentine
We do, and quite correctly i may add.
No. She tells them that they have no idea who they're dealing with. Then she intimidates them. Saying "i've dealt with men who'd pick their teeth with your bones" then goes on saying: BACK OF NOW!
This is intimidation, not provocation. Though she might want them to swing, she didn't provoke it.
That's why I said "wannabe pacifist". She is probably as afraid of her capabilities, as Valentine is of his capabilities. That doesn't mean they enjoy inflicting pain on others. Valentine tells the shrink that you don't have to enjoy your occupation in order to be good at it. And we already listened to Valentine's dialogue with Zaina/Davis about both his and Elspeth's image they exude. Zaina goes one step forward and tells Valentine how much Elspeth and himself are similar. Both of them show what people expect from them. They expect a vulgar, cocky, American womanizer from Valentine, and he give them exactly that; while playing down on himself like he is an undefeated MMA champion (in Singapore) yet somehow he makes them think that he is an underachiever. On the other hand, people expect so much from Elspeth, and she gives them exactly that, while she herself thinks that she is an underachiever.
Those two are two halves of the same apple. They are both very smart, though Elspeth is flat out genius. They are both afraid of their capabilities. They both lose any sense of self preservation when shit hits the fan. They are loyal to death. They both grew up without a sense of self worth. They both served, while both of them wanting to do nothing to do with the military. They both try to be pacifist... We listened how Viridiana talked about Valentine's fights, right? There was no malice behind it, he was just having fun and buying them drinks after it was over. He still fights like that. He talks to his opponents like they're having sunday dinner. He is always under control, not for his sake but for his opponent's sake. He doesn't want to hurt them, just want to beat them. You can see that in the press conference before his first fight, telling his opponent to forfeit. That wasn't a bluff, or just random shit talk. He definitely doesn't want to hurt people, even though he was an SF soldier, and is an MMA fighter.
These kind of contradictions make both Valentine and Elspeth more than just characters in a novel. They literally are multidimensional.
And what do you think Elspeth wants and Valentine offers? (BTW, I already wrote an essay about this exact topic, on all the LIs way earlier in here. So my question is geniune.)
Elspeth wants to be understood. She wants to be herself, all of herself, with her significant other. She already said that she can be that with Valentine. She even admitted that Valentine turned her into a "bloody cliché". She doesn't play games anymore, she just dropped it altogether, and told him that she loves him. So with Ep.7 she is starting to show her needy and possessive side. So she's opening up real fast. And once she opens up about her whole military service, we'll see crystal clear that they belong to eachother.
Dr.TSoni
Engaged Member
- May 20, 2022
- 2,474
- 7,666
Telling someone, let alone two drunks trying to appear strong, a few centimeters from their face how easy it is to beat them is provocation 101
This is bullshit in the last chapter all she does is say how much better she was than her brother
This is partially only if you cast her as LI, right from the start when she's just a friend of a friend she tries to force Valentine to tell her his secrets. The point is, she's not interested in Valentine', she's interested in seeing Valentine's "monster" so she can have someone to show her "monster" to.
You say provocation, I say intimidation.
And why was that? Because her brother was the golden child, and she was neglected. Remember Elspeth's conversation with Viridiana? Viridiana was explaining why Valentine did what he did, yelling his mother "perpetually second best" and Elspeth completing the sentence "B+ player"... She had to prove everyone that she was better than her brother. Yet, no one cared about it until her brother, who was a naughty boy, died. Even when she was the obvious choice as the heir, her father didn't attend to her graduation from the military academy. So, yes! She is exactly like Valentine for this subject.
You call it monster, I call it wolf. As McNab put it the first time they met: Those two are cut from the same cloth. They are both kind people, they are both monsters, and they are the same. And Elspeth wants to be with Valentine because she knows that. Valentine doesn't know that yet, at least fully; because Elspeth does her homework beforehand. But Valentine will get that once Elspeth shares her military service, though I am expecting some drama there, Elspeth being behind Zaina's death or something like that, which will strain their relationship on the brink of breaking. However, they will live happily ever after, if that doesn't happen or Valentine finds his heart to forgive her if it does.
Dr.TSoni
Engaged Member
- May 20, 2022
- 2,474
- 7,666
Elspeth's father has done nothing but worry about her and sing her praises since her first appearance. When he talks about Elspeth not being fit he is referring to the tradition of serving in the army, and he was right. In the past it is shown that she is incapable of following orders and in the present that she struggles to live with the consequences.
It's Valentine who calls him that.
Secondly, I don't think it will be what puts their relationship to the test, but Elspeth's approach
Would you expect her father to put Elspeth to shame, in front of someone who he's meeting for the first time?
My own father did make me feel inferior, and my mother was the one who actually criticised me unfairly in front of others. Those two are completely different things, coming from different agendas. My father's approach was about reverse psychology, even though it didn't work. My mother was actually the malicious one, telling everyone how bad of a son I was, in order to look like an angel to them. And guess which one of my parents I hate?
Elspeth wouldn't try hard as she did, to earn her father's approval if he was like my mother. She'd just give up on him and go her merry way.
Yes, everybody knew she wasn't fit for military duty because of who she is, but one had to take the mantle of being the heir after her brother's passing, and Elspeth did it to prove that she was better than him, as well as to keep the tradition.
I don't know if you ever part of a military institution but I have. Guess what? Military is made for total morons. And for someone with well above average IQ myself, it was hell to march 5 hours straight, just because some idiots couldn't march properly, or refused to do so. Plus, the command structure isn't that efficient either. Officers are usually stupid, selfish, or just incapable of understanding how to make things work properly. So it's no surprise Elspeth was incapable of following orders, because she actually knew better than those who was ordering her around.
Valentine can deal with Elspeth's approach all day long. He actually reads her very well. Remember their conversation in the pool pub, in Mallorca? He called her out right into her face. I get that Elspeth's overbearing personality can rub some in the wrong way, but Valentine isn't one of those people. I'll go out on a limp and claim that he actually likes that. And he isn't one to fake it until make it.
Remember their conversation, after Valentine helped Elspeth moving and ate dinner? Elspeth asks Valentine if her intelligence really bothers him that much. She'll gain friendship and trust points if he admits her brain scares him. Yet, she'll gain love but lose trust points if he says "not at all". Elspeth values Valentine's honesty more than his love. So she doesn't mind Valentine telling what's in his mind, even if it's not what Elspeth wants to hear.
TLDR: You are way off base with Elspeth.
BTW, I hate Elspeth's physique. She's way too tall, I mean she has to be somewhere around 180 to 190 cm according to STWAs depictions. She has a huge ass and breasts that can put Bessy to shame. But she also has the most beautiful face, with Ines being a close second since they are pretty similar apart from some details. Nothing I say about Elspeth is because of her looks.
Alfred the Fallen
Member
- Dec 29, 2018
- 454
- 2,731
Uhh.... you do realize that scene is about how Valentine's subconscious is aware that Elspeth is a liar? And that he thinks she's the opposite of him? And he's worried that she could be a danger to him and the people he cares about?
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
It's one of the best reasons to avoid Elspeth.
Is she an active duty intelligence officer who has been given orders to spy on Valentine?
No? Well then she's just a creep.
See that part right there? That's the provocation we've been accusing Elspeth of.
The idea that she could intimidate them by boasting about her service record is incredibly stupid. How would they know if she's telling the truth? They don't have acess to her military records, and she certainly doesn't look intimidating at all, so of course they're going to think she's full of shit. All they see is a scrawny woman insulting them and boasting about how easily she could beat them up.
Her actions ensured that the fight would happen.