Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.1.1] [Studio Fow]

[Quintilus]

All animations in Pandora are running in real time utilizing Unreal Engine.

The added option to move/rotate camera?
If no, it STILL gif loop, even if it real time 3D RTX render.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

I think that the fact they said that there will be only 1 long "cinematic sex scene" for each girl will trigger a lot of people.

To be honest, It doesn't bother me

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if those cinematic sex scene are well done. I always said that I prefer quality over quantity.

Some people won't also like "contextual interactions leading into romantic and sex scenes" because they didn't expect only context before sex-scenes but also some dialogs during it.

well they did say they’re gonna do more voice work as well.

also yeah I was always expecting one long quality scene for the devotion quest. The long romantic scene, minus the fade to black ME always did

 

[Deleted member 324588]

The added option to move/rotate camera?
If no, it STILL gif loop, even if it real time 3D RTX render.

what do ya call a loop from another angle?

Just another loop.

Except you'll have to account for the lighting, the effects, the model's positioning, clipping, and do you see how this would present a problem for the hundreds of scenes we'll likely be seeing?

 

[omega_rugal]

Is there heels scene in this game?

 

[Quintilus]

what do ya call a loop from another angle?

Just another loop.

Except you'll have to account for the lighting, the effects, the model's positioning, clipping, and do you see how this would present a problem for the hundreds of scenes we'll likely be seeing?

I mean, if its really real time 3D render, as they claim it, all that "lighting, the effects, the model's positioning, clipping" could be calculated "on the fly", when you move camera around. Just like in any 3D game.

It still would be a short, looped animation, but with option to look around it it will add something 'new' to it.

 

[Gwedelino]

You don't expect people to look it up by themselves do you?


“Gif Loops”

We have been receiving comments and criticism about the “Gif Loops''. Please note, there are no Gif Loops in this game. All animations in Pandora are running in real time utilizing Unreal Engine. We have a very specific vision for the game, one that is shaped by the technical and resource realities of the project. These short animations are not the result of purely artistic decisions, but it is a software development necessity. Please understand, we are not a AAA studio that employs 80 animators and we simply do not have the resources to make each of these short animations a 10-minute movie. Having said this, since these are real time animations, we can add interactive elements on these items. We are looking into how to improve these shorter animations. There will be longer pre-rendered contents at the end of each devotion quest as part of our promised Kickstarter rewards.

I don't agree with their " we are not an AAA studio" stance.

I think that a lot of people here who are disappointed by their Pandora System and lack of contextualisation for the sex scenes are not asking for every Pandora Scene to become a full cinematic. It's more like " don't overflow us with pandora content and instead of that give us longer scenes".

they also break down their animation style and why other games (like Illusion games that people on here have compared it to) may have longer or more interactive scenes, but suffer in quality as a result.

When you spend several minutes trying to find a good angle for your favorite sex scene, fail miserably, and become frustrated because you just want to enjoy the sex scene and not try to play with the camera like if it was the flight simulator of porn games.

It always end like that for me with free camera control game. I prefer forced view.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I mean, if its really real time 3D render, as they claim it, all that "lighting, the effects, the model's positioning, clipping" could be calculated "on the fly", when you move camera around. Just like in any 3D game.

It still would be a short, looped animation, but with option to look around it it will add something 'new' to it.

I guess you couldn't take the effort to click on the link itself, so...


"Free camera control

To address this point will require a relatively exhaustive explanation. Our original plan was to deliver the animations in a true StudioFOW manner, which is a forced camera perspective style. The game design philosophy and artistic aim was from the beginning to continue this forced camera perspective driven movie-making in Pandora. We thought the artists – who brought joy to millions of users via the StudioFOW movies – should focus on their strengths and carry out their creative vision, this requires a largely fixed camera. So that is our style. That is the forced camera perspective.

The StudioFOW artistic philosophy has always been one reliant on forced perspective - all of FOW movies were highly successful using this style of animation and that style was brought over to the current Pandora system. To make a real-time sex animation suitable for free camera, we would have to change the style entirely by trying to make it look equally as good from every single possible angle. Not only is this a huge time-sink for a tiny animation team, but they would also have to gimp the animation in the process. The Illusion games are a great example of this. To facilitate the 360 cameras in Illusion games, their animation quality takes a massive nosedive. It is like a shackle; the poses and creativity have to take a backseat to rudimentary functionality. StudioFOW was never about that. We want the viewers to experience the best angle possible for a specific animation. Our strengths are in direction and expressiveness, we know this and have designed the game to support it.

Still, all feedback is very important for us. Therefore, we listened and started to introduce some camera controls. By listening to these requests, we understood that a game software application is different from a movie. Interaction with the camera could make the gaming experience more enjoyable. So now there are some camera controls, and we keep fine tuning, and if it is possible to improve it from a usability standpoint.

As mentioned before, if we would have gone with the free-cam route at the start we would have had to devote significantly more time to each animation, to try and make it look passable from every single angle. Instead of having 80+ scenes currently in the game, there would be around 20, at best. That's how big a difference trying to make a free-cam work in a real time environment would entail. It would also create a host of other problems, such as the fluids not working properly. With static 3D meshes, a free-cam is great, but when you're trying to maintain a high level of quality in animation, the free camera quickly becomes a huge time-sink. We simply don't have the resources to make every single Pandora scene compatible with a free cam. We would literally have to quadruple our animation team, and currently we don't have the resources for this. Otherwise, there is the Gallery which does have an unlocked camera."

 

[Quintilus]

By listening to these requests, we understood that a game software application is different from a movie.

It taken only an ocean of negative reviews for them to realize it. Could be worse.

As mentioned before, if we would have gone with the free-cam route at the start we would have had to devote significantly more time to each animation, to try and make it look passable from every single angle.

Or Im a very bad animator, or this is bullshit.

Yes, I know that in some cases model should take 'unrealistic' poses to look good from certain point. But, if you know that you work could/would be obrserved from more than one point, its pretty easy to avoid it by just, well, not doing it.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I don't agree with their " we are not an AAA studio" stance.

Let's put "AAA" into perspective should we?

"One of the first video games to be produced at a blockbuster or AAA scale was Squaresoft's Final Fantasy VII (1997), which cost an estimated $40–45 million (inflation adjusted $64–73 million) to develop, making it the most expensive video game ever produced up until then, with its unprecedented cinematic CGI production values, movie-like presentation, orchestral music, and innovative blend of gameplay with dynamic cinematic camerawork. Its expensive advertisement campaign was also unprecedented for a video game, with a combined production and marketing budget estimated to be $80–145 million (inflation adjusted $129–234 million as of 2020). Its production budget record was later surpassed by Sega AM2's Shenmue (1999), estimated to have cost $47–70 million (inflation adjusted $73–109 million as of 2020)."

By industry standards they doesn't even rate as a double AA studio in regard of size...

""AA" or Double-A games are mid-market video games that typically have some type of professional development though typically outside of the large first-party studios of the major developers; these may be from larger teams of indie developers in addition to larger non-indie studios. Double-A studios tend to range from 50 to 100 people in size. A double-A development studio will typically be backed by a publisher but not fundamentally part of that publisher, and thus have somewhat more freedom to innovate and experiment compared to triple-A studios, though will still be constrained by specific risk-limiting targets and goals from their funding source. Double-A games tend to be priced $10–40 compared to $60–70 (as of 2021) that triple-A games are priced at. Examples of games considered to be double-A titles include PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds , DayZ (a key game in the survival game genre), and Among Us."

 

[Joshua Tree]

It taken only an ocean of negative reviews for them to realize it. Could be worse.


Or Im a very bad animator, or this is bullshit.

Yes, I know that in some cases model should take 'unrealistic' poses to look good from certain point. But, if you know that you work could/would be obrserved from more than one point, its pretty easy to avoid it by just, well, not doing it.

You should approach them with your expertise and knowledge and offer your service seeing you know better. Right?

 

[Quintilus]

You should approach them with your expertise and knowledge and offer your service seeing you know better. Right?

Probably.

But from what I seeing, they trying to apply movie rules to video games. And thats...
I will not be able to explain to them why they a bunch of retards, that are trying to apply Buddhism rules in Cat-holly-c church, with very poor result. Because "hey, Buddhism rules are 100% working!!!!! I, and lot of others Buddhists, approve!!!!! why I cant just apply them here??????".

 

[Gwedelino]

Let's put "AAA" into perspective should we?

"One of the first video games to be produced at a blockbuster or AAA scale was Squaresoft's Final Fantasy VII (1997), which cost an estimated $40–45 million (inflation adjusted $64–73 million) to develop, making it the most expensive video game ever produced up until then, with its unprecedented cinematic CGI production values, movie-like presentation, orchestral music, and innovative blend of gameplay with dynamic cinematic camerawork. Its expensive advertisement campaign was also unprecedented for a video game, with a combined production and marketing budget estimated to be $80–145 million (inflation adjusted $129–234 million as of 2020). Its production budget record was later surpassed by Sega AM2's Shenmue (1999), estimated to have cost $47–70 million (inflation adjusted $73–109 million as of 2020)."

By industry standards they doesn't even rate as a double AA studio in regard of size...

""AA" or Double-A games are mid-market video games that typically have some type of professional development though typically outside of the large first-party studios of the major developers; these may be from larger teams of indie developers in addition to larger non-indie studios. Double-A studios tend to range from 50 to 100 people in size. A double-A development studio will typically be backed by a publisher but not fundamentally part of that publisher, and thus have somewhat more freedom to innovate and experiment compared to triple-A studios, though will still be constrained by specific risk-limiting targets and goals from their funding source. Double-A games tend to be priced $10–40 compared to $60–70 (as of 2021) that triple-A games are priced at. Examples of games considered to be double-A titles include PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds , DayZ (a key game in the survival game genre), and Among Us."

Ahah, seems you missed the point completely.

I just said" AAA stance" because I didn't want to write again their whole argument.

Let me rephrase it then :

I don't agree with their "
we are not a AAA studio that employs 80 animators and we simply do not have the resources to make each of these short animations a 10-minute movie" stance.

À lot of people here are not asking for every Pandora scene to become a 10-minutes short movie. They are asking Studio Fow to stop making a shit tons of short Pandora scenes so we can have several 2-3 minutes sex cutscenes instead.

 

[GifMeMore1987]

I mean, if its really real time 3D render, as they claim it, all that "lighting, the effects, the model's positioning, clipping" could be calculated "on the fly", when you move camera around. Just like in any 3D game.

It still would be a short, looped animation, but with option to look around it it will add something 'new' to it.

Well, you could use Universal Unreal Unlocker for a completely free camera. It works but don't complain about "frozen" faces and other problems outside the default frame.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Ahah, seems you missed the point completely.

I just said" AAA stance" because I didn't want to write again their whole argument.

Let me rephrase it then :

I don't agree with their "
we are not a AAA studio that employs 80 animators and we simply do not have the resources to make each of these short animations a 10-minute movie" stance.

À lot of people here are not asking for every Pandora scene to become a 10-minutes short movie. They are asking Studio Fow to stop making a shit tons of short Pandora scenes so we can have several 2-3 minutes sex cutscenes instead.

You know they are caught in a "Bart Simpsons" loop right? They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If they increased the length of the Pandora scenes 3 folds, but at same time cut the number of scenes just as much people would still cry about lack of content. Fuck, you see this in other games around here all the time. A release with a update, might just have a couple "well made" scenes, and then the creator get a lot of flak because not enough content in the update.

Would you rather have 50 scenes or 200 scenes with more diversity? Once the game is done Pandora will have hundreds of scenes.

 

[youmustbejoking]

À lot of people here are not asking for every Pandora scene to become a 10-minutes short movie. They are asking Studio Fow to stop making a shit tons of short Pandora scenes so we can have several 2-3 minutes sex cutscenes instead.

The funny thing is that this problem could have easily been solved simply by copying what every single VN does, namely string multiple screens together with dialogue.

So for example taking Killi's recruitment scene instead of getting that one premium one we could have gotten five of them all at once as follows:
Scene 1) the tease scene with her on all fours
Scene 2) the paizuri
Scene 3) the missionary or doggystyle one
Scene 4) the premium one
Scene 5) the one with you and her lying in bed

All segments would have had dialogue throughout. Just like eroges, except instead of jpegs with voice acting we could have gotten gifs with voice acting. An indisputable upgrade in my opinion.

Afterwards the player could either:
a) rewatch the entire scene
or
b) create his own custom movie by mixing and matching different segments; naturally this would mean that the only VA available for custom scenes would be moans and stock lines


With a design such as the one described above the entire scene could have lasted for five or so minutes, depending on the amount of dialogue. It would have made for a much more satisfactory reward after finishing the recruitment mission. Instead we only got one premium scene with some moaning here and there. Uh... is that it? asked the players. Yeah, this is why the number one complaint is Pandora. Because it's shit, and it will likely remain shit judging by that update. I swear, it's like these people never played an eroge in their entire lives. Their adult video game experience must have been limited to Nutaku.

This could have been a good game but these baffling design choices are going to plague it forever.

 

[Deleted member 148498]

So for example taking Killi's recruitment scene instead of getting that one premium one we could have gotten five of them all at once as follows:
Scene 1) the tease scene with her on all fours
Scene 2) the paizuri
Scene 3) the missionary or doggystyle one
Scene 4) the premium one
Scene 5) the one with you and her lying in bed

All segments would have had dialogue throughout. Just like eroges, except instead of jpegs with voice acting we could have gotten gifs with voice acting. An indisputable upgrade in my opinion.

Afterwards the player could either:
a) rewatch the entire scene
or
b) create his own custom movie by mixing and matching different segments; naturally this would mean that the only VA available for custom scenes would be moans and stock lines

Stop making perfect sense by proposing long time used ideas that work in countless of games.
Just because you've played a porn game before does not mean that people who are developing one also should. Not mentioning learning from it.
I mean, they would have to have ONE (1) person that played visual novel before on their team to tell them what to do, and I'm not sure that's something you can expect from this small indie studio.
Making sex scenes completely separated from the main narrative and split into many small irrelevant parts with no dialogues, locked behind gallery mode on steroids was clearly a better idea. Deal with it.

 

[Quintilus]

Stop making perfect sense by proposing long time used ideas that work in countless of games.
Just because you've played a porn game before does not mean that people who are developing one also should. Not mentioning learning from it.
I mean, they would have to have ONE (1) person that played visual novel before on their team to tell them what to do, and I'm not sure that's something you can expect from this small indie studio.
Making sex scenes completely separated from the main narrative and split into many small irrelevant parts with no dialogues, locked behind gallery mode on steroids was clearly a better idea. Deal with it.

FINALLY, someone with complete lack of sense and reason. Never thought I would see such person here.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Stop making perfect sense by proposing long time used ideas that work in countless of games.
Just because you've played a porn game before does not mean that people who are developing one also should. Not mentioning learning from it.
I mean, they would have to have ONE (1) person that played visual novel before on their team to tell them what to do, and I'm not sure that's something you can expect from this small indie studio.
Making sex scenes completely separated from the main narrative and split into many small irrelevant parts with no dialogues, locked behind gallery mode on steroids was clearly a better idea. Deal with it.

Yes why bother making something new and different, when this could have just been like every other VN game that’s so overdone, most folks will just ask for a full save to skip the dialogue boxes and get to the still images they so desperately want?

That’s the kind of mindset that gets you a Ubisoft open world formula games year after year with no real changes.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

When you spend several minutes trying to find a good angle for your favorite sex scene, fail miserably, and become frustrated because you just want to enjoy the sex scene and not try to play with the camera like if it was the flight simulator of porn games.

It always end like that for me with free camera control game. I prefer forced view.

I feel like this is gonna get lost on a lot of people, but it’s hard to fap when you’re constantly wanting to alter the scenes to suit your tastes. Hell Subverse let’s you configure the pandora controls where you could do it all on a gaming mouse for true one handed fun

 

[Quintilus]

Yes why bother making something new and different, when this could have just been like every other VN game that’s so overdone, most folks will just ask for a full save to skip the dialogue boxes and get to the still images they so desperately want?

That’s the kind of mindset that gets you a Ubisoft open world formula games year after year with no real changes.

I highly doubt that thous who ask for saves are veterans of "cream`py" VN.