VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[AlexFXR]

As I understand it, it's like this:
A good chunk of devs start to feel burnout, tired, bored or simply run out of good ideas or inspiration with certain VN. This causes them to take looong ass breaks (cause they can't come up with good stories at the moment), or the quality of the VN declines (silly dialogue, plotholes, boring story, renders aren't as detailed, there's continuity errosr, etc.).

Now, being able to work in both VNs assures that if the dev gets bored or loses inspiration with VN "a", they can continue working on VN "b", so they actually never stop working. This works when the dev either works half of the time in "a" and then jumps to "b" before they get too tired of the first VN, or when they work nonstop on "a" until they get tired and repulsed by it, so they work on "b". For what it has been said before, it seems like Ocean works with the first scenario I described.

I know this kind of working practice might not work for everyone, but if it works for Ocean then good for them *shrugs*.

Before you start working on the game, create a script. SG has it, but Wiab does not. If there is burnout, it only happens because of Wiab. Therefore, Ocean needs to focus on working on SG. When inspiration comes, Ocean will be able to finish the script for Wiab and finish the game.

 

[yossa999]

Sigh, so much misinformation in one post, and resorting to insults.

Unreal is capable of much higher output than Daz. It can render simple images or use different methods, multipass rendering, Path Tracing amongst them. Path tracing has been long used in the movie industry for ultra realistic images.

The only advantage that Daz has is in its easy access to character models and morphing, skilled users however can use those assets within Unreal, in fact the Daz store now specifically states that the models are compatible with Unreal, Blender, Unity and others.

How do you think all the key art of such high quality are produced for games?

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I could post hundreds of more examples of character renders and that's not to mention its ability to render cinematic animations far superior to Daz in a fraction of the time, then we have the environments which once again are far superior.

Daz is a program aimed at amateurs to give a gentle introduction into 3D rendering.

Skilled users will stick with Blender, Unreal, Maya, Cinema4d

If you are going to refute points in a post, make sure you know what you are talking about.

Maybe have a watch, you may learn something:

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All this is so unusual and amazing. But there is something else that confuses me. I follow a dozen threads on my favorite games. And many other gaming thread that I visit from time to time. At some point, people always ask the developer what software tools and hardware they use.

And it's always the same answer. The vast majority choose DAZ as the main tool for creating the graphics part of the game (Blender as an additional tool that does not replace DAZ completely). Correct me if I'm wrong with this statement, but that's my observations. Hardware performance is always not enough, almost everyone writes that they are saving money for upgrades. Except maybe DPC, who wrote in his dev log that after he upgraded his hardware, he started wondering what to do with the extra GFX power. And judging by the fans' butts burning so brightly, they didn't exactly like what he came up with.

Only a couple of games out of the several hundred I've seen here use Unreal, and they're not AVNs, they're dynamic action games for adults.

Sure, most of the developers here would be considered amateurs by your high standards, but that's the situation in the AVN niche, most of them are made by talented individuals or teams of two, where one is a writer/programmer and the other is a 3d artist. All of those experienced guys you mentioned seem to be working for fat salaries at larger game studios.

So maybe there is a reason why they don't choose such powerful and advanced tools as you are promoting. They may not be able to afford to spend months developing each 3d model or an environment object, even if it produces great results as you have shown in the links you provided. Although for me they don’t look as impressive as Ocean’s pictures, but this is just a matter of preferences I guess. I’m an amateur 3d art observer, just like these AVN devs are amateur 3d artists, and I probably haven’t developed the right taste yet.

Therefore, they simply use free assets or buy them from those who do this professionally and customize them to suit their needs. Perhaps they are just sticking to their goals and their goal is not a perfect 3d model, but an AVN game which consists of graphics, plot, music, characters, storylines and more other things. And perhaps the ease of 3d modeling and rendering that their tools provide is the key factor that allows AVN developers to release updates to their games at least once a year, while working alone.

It's even more amazing is how these amateur devs, with the help of such an amateur tools, are able to create such artistic pictures that look much better than those made by skilled professionals.

 

[Ali ibn Hassan]

Not on my save. I already planned spending the money on a date with Mila because that seems to be necessary to convince her getting OnlyFans

I do hope you have thought this thing thoroughly and through!
It's a given fact that crabs have a somewhat peculiar way of promenading and I'm curious if this applies to the crustacean way of thinking as well.
Not trying to kink shame you but I hope you're aware that that will by far multiply the number of wankers ogling her hiney and other otherwise private parts.

Best wishes and I hope you'll have a fantastic date with Mila. She's a keeper

 

[PaxHadrian17]

Before you start working on the game, create a script. SG has it, but Wiab does not. If there is burnout, it only happens because of Wiab. Therefore, Ocean needs to focus on working on SG. When inspiration comes, Ocean will be able to finish the script for Wiab and finish the game.

(Apologies to any readers in advance - this became a TLDR - so I used in line spoilers to reduce some of my elaboration for those not interested.)


I write, professionally and for fun.

Professionally - there are defined goals, timelines and an identified audience to reach/teach, for example.

This kind of writing is very much a 'do the task and move on, other tasks are coming.'

When I write for fun, I am actually writing multiple stories at the same time, allowing my creativity to take me where it will for each of the stories I want to tell.

If I find myself spinning my wheels on Story A - I set it aside and bounce to Story B, letting my brain chew on things in the background while I work on a different story.

Since these stories are not my livelihood nor am I writing to meet anyone else's schedule, I am not concerned about pages written/chapters completed by a certain month of a given year.

My script has changed in Every story I have written/am writing, but why make changes... :

I come up with a great scene for characters who have grown in my mind and the telling of one of my stories and I need to make adjustments to earlier parts of the story to better support the scene - I want the scene to make sense against the backdrop of the greater story.

I learn something new that has bearing on how I was telling the story and I need to make adjustments to keep the story realistic for the world/timeframe/technology level it was written for.

I realize that my protagonist is too wishy washy or has suddenly become James/Jane Bond with no discernable path on how they built those skills; I need to better define what motivates them and then rewrite earlier scenes to support the type of protagonist I want this person to be/better explain origin and training so that unusual skill sets fit with the story instead of turning it into nonsense.

Same as the above for an antagonist.

For me - the greatest chance for burnout comes from forcing myself to write creatively but putting a short leash on that creativity and limiting it, like forcing myself to work on a favorite story no matter what.

Writing Does involve discipline, but it also involves an awareness of self so time is spent wisely.

Hit a brick wall in the writing or creative process, shift gears and go to a different story or work out, cook, clean, do laundry/any of the other tasks that are part of day-to-day living, so you give your subconscious a chance to work on finding the door through the brick wall.

Ocean has said that part of how he avoids burnout is he works on SG and WIAB concurrently.

This is what works for him.

I trust Ocean to know what works best for him just like I trust myself to know what works best for me when it comes to avoiding burnout.

You claim that WIAB is the reason Ocean is experiencing burnout.

I don't believe you and I KNOW you cannot back up your statement with facts.

Trying to claim that you know Ocean better than he knows himself - which is the only way you would know better how to combat his burnout than he would - is ludicrous.


It's okay to want more of SG sooner - I think that matches the desires of almost everyone here on this thread.

If that is what is behind your statement, I recommend using different words and just own what you are hoping for.

Cheers!!

 

[Ali ibn Hassan]

(Apologies to any readers in advance - this became a TLDR - so I used in line spoolers to reduce some of my elaboration for those not interested.)


I write, professionally and for fun.

Professionally - there are defined goals, timelines and an identified audience to reach/teach, for example.

This kind of writing is very much a 'do the task and move on, other tasks are coming.'

When I write for fun, I am actually writing multiple stories at the same time, allowing my creativity to take me where it will for each of the stories I want to tell.

If I find myself spinning my wheels on Story A - I set it aside and bounce to Story B, letting my brain chew on things in the background while I work on a different story.

Since these stories are not my livelihood nor am I writing to meet anyone else's schedule, I am not concerned about pages written/chapters completed by a certain month of a given year.

My script has changed in Every story I have written/am writing, but why make changes... :

I come up with a great scene for characters who have grown in my mind and the telling of one of my stories and I need to make adjustments to earlier parts of the story to better support the scene - I want the scene to make sense against the backdrop of the greater story.

I learn something new that has bearing on how I was telling the story and I need to make adjustments to keep the story realistic for the world/timeframe/technology level it was written for.

I realize that my protagonist is too wishy washy or has suddenly become James/Jane Bond with no discernable path on how they built those skills; I need to better define what motivates them and then rewrite earlier scenes to support the type of protagonist I want this person to be/better explain origin and training so that unusual skill sets fit with the story instead of turning it into nonsense.

Same as the above for an antagonist.

For me - the greatest chance for burnout comes from forcing myself to write creatively but putting a short leash on that creativity and limiting it, like forcing myself to work on a favorite story no matter what.

Writing Does involve discipline, but it also involves an awareness of self so time is spent wisely.

Hit a brick wall in the writing or creative process, shift gears and go to a different story or work out, cook, clean, do laundry/any of the other tasks that are part of day-to-day living, so you give your subconscious a chance to work on finding the door through the brick wall.

Ocean has said that part of how he avoids burnout is he works on SG and WIAB concurrently.

This is what works for him.

I trust Ocean to know what works best for him just like I trust myself to know what works best for me when it comes to avoiding burnout.

You claim that WIAB is the reason Ocean is experiencing burnout.

I don't believe you and I KNOW you cannot back up your statement with facts.

Trying to claim that you know Ocean better than he knows himself - which is the only way you would know better how to combat his burnout than he would - is ludicrous.


It's okay to want more of SG sooner - I think that matches the desires of almost everyone here on this thread.

If that is what is behind your statement, I recommend using different words and just own what you are hoping for.

Cheers!!

TLBRA ( Too Long But Read Anyway )

 

[crabsinthekitchen]

I do hope you have thought this thing thoroughly and through!
It's a given fact that crabs have a somewhat peculiar way of promenading and I'm curious if this applies to the crustacean way of thinking as well.
View attachment 3002075 Not trying to kink shame you but I hope you're aware that that will by far multiply the number of wankers ogling her hiney and other otherwise private parts.

Best wishes and I hope you'll have a fantastic date with Mila. She's a keeper

I didn't because I don't like thinking. And in case you didn't notice, my favorite girl is already a camgirl

 

[Ali ibn Hassan]

I didn't because I don't like thinking. And in case you didn't notice, my favorite girl is already a camgirl

Ooh, my friend, I'm well aware of her internet shenanigans and will stand erect first in line when her Onlyfans account premieres.

 

[Penfold Mole]

Ocean himself has explained several times that working on the second game was not planned. He started working on Summer's Gone because whoever was doing it left the project. After that came the excuse about art and creativity because the natives were getting restless.

Sure, the second game was unplanned, but he has also said that working on two projects makes it easier. Do I have to look it up for you?

Please finish just one project before you start talking to me about creativity and art, Leonardo

I've been doing my job for about 23 years and got pretty good at it by now. Haven't burned out nor got too bored to switch jobs. And I haven't been fired, either. So I should know what the hell I'm talking about.

My boss (the second one by now) and coworkers have been mostly quite happy about how I've managed to do my job and often helped them out with theirs. The only one who thinks that I should have done more and better is myself.

But since you don't believe Ocean, you probably don't believe anyone, me included. And just like him, I don't really give a rats ass if you do.

 

[LewdLife]

Where it all began?
Where it all began??!!!


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


Where did all these delays began??
?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Turret]

All this is so unusual and amazing. But there is something else that confuses me. I follow a dozen threads on my favorite games. And many other gaming thread that I visit from time to time. At some point, people always ask the developer what software tools and hardware they use.

And it's always the same answer. The vast majority choose DAZ as the main tool for creating the graphics part of the game (Blender as an additional tool that does not replace DAZ completely). Correct me if I'm wrong with this statement, but that's my observations. Hardware performance is always not enough, almost everyone writes that they are saving money for upgrades. Except maybe DPC, who wrote in his dev log that after he upgraded his hardware, he started wondering what to do with the extra GFX power. And judging by the fans' butts burning so brightly, they didn't exactly like what he came up with.

Only a couple of games out of the several hundred I've seen here use Unreal, and they're not AVNs, they're dynamic action games for adults.

Sure, most of the developers here would be considered amateurs by your high standards, but that's the situation in the AVN niche, most of them are made by talented individuals or teams of two, where one is a writer/programmer and the other is a 3d artist. All of those experienced guys you mentioned seem to be working for fat salaries at larger game studios.

So maybe there is a reason why they don't choose such powerful and advanced tools as you are promoting. They may not be able to afford to spend months developing each 3d model or an environment object, even if it produces great results as you have shown in the links you provided. Although for me they don’t look as impressive as Ocean’s pictures, but this is just a matter of preferences I guess. I’m an amateur 3d art observer, just like these AVN devs are amateur 3d artists, and I probably haven’t developed the right taste yet.

Therefore, they simply use free assets or buy them from those who do this professionally and customize them to suit their needs. Perhaps they are just sticking to their goals and their goal is not a perfect 3d model, but an AVN game which consists of graphics, plot, music, characters, storylines and more other things. And perhaps the ease of 3d modeling and rendering that their tools provide is the key factor that allows AVN developers to release updates to their games at least once a year, while working alone.

It's even more amazing is how these amateur devs, with the help of such an amateur tools, are able to create such artistic pictures that look much better than those made by skilled professionals.

Hi!
Personally I think weirdscix ´point is less using Unreal for the whole game and more for using UE mainly for the rendering. Unreal has it´s own package of pros and cons, but even a hobby newbie with 3D rendering as I am can say that Unreal renders faster than DAZ even with unoptimised PCs and is quite content with less than optimum specs. DAZ on the other hand needs a beefy (and expensive) machine to get it done with speed unless you make just some very basic pics.

 

[yossa999]

Hi!
Personally I think weirdscix ´point is less using Unreal for the whole game and more for using UE mainly for the rendering. Unreal has it´s own package of pros and cons, but even a hobby newbie with 3D rendering as I am can say that Unreal renders faster than DAZ even with unoptimised PCs and is quite content with less than optimum specs. DAZ on the other hand needs a beefy (and expensive) machine to get it done with speed unless you make just some very basic pics.

Hi, yeah, I see, but I'm not arguing with this, I'm just sharing my observation that most of the games I follow are being developed using DAZ, so there are certainly reasons why developers prefer it over Unreal. It would be interesting to hear the developers' opinion on this matter.

 

[Turret]

Hi, yeah, I see, but I'm not arguing with this, I'm just sharing my observation that most of the games I follow are being developed using DAZ, so there are certainly reasons why developers prefer it over Unreal. It would be interesting to hear the developers' opinion on this matter.

Some of my observations why most erotic games here are made with DAZ instead of Unreal:
- For a rather long time, Unreal had no "naughty bits" models for the average users. This has changed, there are now character models with "complete" bodies, but they are still a minority.
- Getting DAZ models with their naughty bits functioning in Unreal could be a chore
- due to DAZ and Unreal doing things differently, you have to learn how to use another equally complicated program
- DAZ stuff is shared in greater amounts than Unreal stuff (unfortunately)

Many people will stick to the program they started with making games. And in the adult area, most are/were using DAZ.
Still, Unreal has some things going for it too.
- Unreal has a a more generous licence agreement
- UE can be used quite nicely with less than optimum specs. Yes a top machine makes it easier here as well, but Unreal simply does not hog as much ressources for a fast render as DAZ does
- You can use Unreal for more than just game design
- While it is far from being really easy, even a newbie as me can get out some decent stuff from Unreal without going mad. I personally really like designing rooms or scenery with Unreal more than with DAZ.

 

[yossa999]

Some of my observations why most erotic games here are made with DAZ instead of Unreal:
- For a rather long time, Unreal had no "naughty bits" models for the average users. This has changed, there are now character models with "complete" bodies, but they are still a minority.
- Getting DAZ models with their naughty bits functioning in Unreal could be a chore
- due to DAZ and Unreal doing things differently, you have to learn how to use another equally complicated program
- DAZ stuff is shared in greater amounts than Unreal stuff (unfortunately)

Many people will stick to the program they started with making games. And in the adult area, most are/were using DAZ.
Still, Unreal has some things going for it too.
- Unreal has a a more generous licence agreement
- UE can be used quite nicely with less than optimum specs. Yes a top machine makes it easier here as well, but Unreal simply does not hog as much ressources for a fast render as DAZ does
- You can use Unreal for more than just game design
- While it is far from being really easy, even a newbie as me can get out some decent stuff from Unreal without going mad. I personally really like designing rooms or scenery with Unreal more than with DAZ.

I see you're making valid points, and if I had to choose a tool for a new project, I would probably choose Unreal based on these recommendations. But only if I'm equally incompetent in both DaZ and Unreal and have to learn either tool from the scratch.

But completely changing the main development environment to the new unfamiliar one in the middle of a mature project seems just crazy to me, and I would never consider this as an option. Perhaps if I had enough free time, I would start learning a new tools in the background. And only if I were 100 percent sure that the new tool fully meets my needs, that I have mastered it enough to replace my old tool without loss of performance, that I am fully aware of all the limitations and weaknesses of the new tool, I would let myself to think about switching to it.

I remember Ocean was talking about having a library of DaZ3D assets that was about 700GB in size. I'm sure he'll have a lot of fun porting this library over to the new 3d development environment, if that's even possible, of course.

But I’m a totally clueless in your fancy 3d modelling business, maybe such things are done there at the snap of a finger

To me all this sounds like someone comes to me and say "let's throw out your old C++ code and rewrite the application in Python." Thanks for the innovative idea, guys, but you just leave and never come back.

 

[Turret]

And only if I were 100 percent sure that the new tool fully meets my needs, that I have mastered it enough to replace my old tool without loss of performance, that I am fully aware of all the limitations and weaknesses of the new tool, I would let myself to think about switching to it.
I remember Ocean was talking about having a library of DaZ3D assets that was about 700GB in size. I'm sure he'll have a lot of fun porting this library over to the new 3d development environment, if that's even possible, of course.

That is an important point you bring. Hypothetically porting over Ocean´s big DAZ library to Unreal or another render program would be time consuming as hell. While for instance houses, rooms or so are rather smoothly porting over, characters, esp. highly modified ones, can be really tough.

But I’m a totally clueless in your fancy 3d modelling business, maybe such things are done there at the snap of a finger

That would be a dream! I am a newbie at 3D stuff and do much by trial and error, but there are operations even the experienced users have to chew on.
For us newbies, if you have a couple good assets (luckily there are quite a number of freebies to get from EPIC and some other places. And these freebies are actually useful unlike the joke DAZ delivers with the program), templates and blueprints, you are quite good to go and can get decent renders out, even homebrewing with it without knocking your head at the walls. It becomes clear rather soon that Unreal was developed with game design (among other things) in mind unlike DAZ.
Kitbashing/homebrewing rooms, areas and stuff with DAZ is ok, but is really easier with Unreal, since "level design" is very much part of Unreal. Not to forget that it is also used in part for architectural things. It shows, even if it gets more complex the deeper you dive in. But as said, even a newbie with some creativity and assets can get out some decent results.

 

[AlexFXR]

For me - the greatest chance for burnout comes from forcing myself to write creatively but putting a short leash on that creativity and limiting it, like forcing myself to work on a favorite story no matter what.

This is exactly what I was talking about.

 

[Deleted member 4671174]

As usual, I'm just putting in my comment to show my desperation for the update.
Because I am Shameless!

 

[yossa999]

As usual, I'm just putting in my comment to show my desperation for the update.
Because I am Shameless!

One of the rules for the on-topic game threads says: "4. Please avoid discussing or advertising other games in game threads, as this will often derail the discussion."
So let me just say that lately there has been a great selection of sweets and bread rolls in the "Latest Updates" section of this site while we're waiting for the main course here.

 

[Ali ibn Hassan]

 

[Deleted member 4671174]

Okay, this is bad. I keep visiting this thread again and again in hope of an update. Is anyone like me?

 

[Wildehilde]

Okay, this is bad. I keep visiting this thread again and again in hope of an update. Is anyone like me?
View attachment 3005934

Next year maybe.