Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.4468] [Kompas Productions]

[ImTransAndTiny]

This thread has become nothing but a circlejerk for the defenders of DK who will jump on you even for the slightest criticism of the creator.

So what if we like Donkey Kong? What do you have against him?

 

[Panduh]

You're obviously not a programmer. When I started my mod, updates in the beginning were large and frequent. Now they're small and infrequent. That's not because I'm making more money -- I'm still making nothing -- but because I ran out of low-hanging fruit. There's a well-known rule called the Pareto principle which states that roughly 80% of consequences come from 20% of causes (also known as the "80-20 Rule"). As any project gets larger, it takes more and more work to add anything new to it. Eventually, you get to the part where the last 20% of your results take 80% of your effort. Finally, you have no choice but to redesign everything to make it easier to add to it in the future, which takes a very long time and has a 50% chance (more recently, I heard 70% chance) of failing. You actually have to stop what you're doing to do a bunch of work that no one can see, and there's a good chance that you'll have to give up on it and throw it all away. You take that chance because you have to. Keeping things the way they are isn't an option.

Anyway, I'm glad that you've never taken on a project that got out of hand and had to learn about this principle the hard way. I have. DC has. Every major corporation has. It's just life. Bitching about it won't help, but at least you got to annoy some other people, right?

If DC was really concerned about that he would have made the game in chapters or seasons. That way you dont need to worry about content made 4 years ago messing with more recent stuff. causing bugs. Would fix the need for as you say testing. Regardless of the fact I know any programing. It is common sense that 80/20 is an excuse. Plenty of games have multiple chapters. The game would be finished by now if they had done that.

 

[ImTransAndTiny]

If DC was really concerned about that he would have made the game in chapters or seasons. That way you dont need to worry about content made 4 years ago messing with more recent stuff. causing bugs. Would fix the need for as you say testing. Regardless of the fact I know any programing. It is common sense that 80/20 is an excuse. Plenty of games have multiple chapters. The game would be finished by now if they had done that.

As a modder of the game, I've looked at almost every line of code in Summertime Saga. There are 1,630 code files, by the way.

I haven't the foggiest clue how your idea would work. Releasing updates in chapters or seasons is no different from adding new scenes or new content any other way. There are 635 scripts in the characters directory, 695 in the locations directory, and 73 in the minigames directory. Those 1,403 files are "content". The other 227 files mostly contain functions that get called by the content scripts.

Adding new content is just adding a script to a new or existing file in characters or locations. Eventually, you want to be able to do something that the core files can't do for you. That will happen regardless of whether you release updates in chapters, seasons, or whatever. Eventually, the core files need a rewrite to be able to continue to add content, regardless of what you call your updates.

If using chapters or seasons somehow magically negated the need to ever work on the core files that underpin the content files, you would be within your rights to say that DC should have made the game in chapters or seasons, but he didn't. Unless you're offering him a time machine, how would that advice be any use to him now? Whatever he should have done that he didn't do, he didn't do it, so a rewrite is needed. That's what's going on. They should haven't built Mexico City on a dry lakebed, but they did. What good does pointing that out now accomplish? The time to avoid that mistake was centuries ago!

I've been programming for most of my life, and I go to industry conferences every year. If there was a way to predict your future needs so that you would never need an extensive code rewrite when your project gets 10x bigger than it was when it started, I'm sure someone would have mentioned it at the conference I was at last week. Instead, we talked about the fact that code rewrites now fail 70% of the time (the figure used to be 50%). Significant code rewrites are an inevitable part of a growing project. Every project manager knows that. You're not a programmer. The fact that you're not qualified to give programming advice is abundantly clear. Maybe find something else to wank to while you're waiting for the Tech Update? I don't know what fetish code shaming feeds, but the rest of us didn't come here to see you get off on ignorant code criticism.

 

[srksrk 68]

Do it. And it better not be 1$ to 2$ cookie chip level. Double the cookie addict level. Do it. Bet you won't.

View attachment 2631927

Now you really hurt my feelings, you know?

Btw/ I don't have to prove anything. What did you ever do for the game or for the community?

 

[ZZTuner]

As a modder of the game, I've looked at almost every line of code in Summertime Saga. There are 1,630 code files, by the way.

I haven't the foggiest clue how your idea would work. Releasing updates in chapters or seasons is no different from adding new scenes or new content any other way. There are 635 scripts in the characters directory, 695 in the locations directory, and 73 in the minigames directory. Those 1,403 files are "content". The other 227 files mostly contain functions that get called by the content scripts.

Adding new content is just adding a script to a new or existing script in characters or locations. Eventually, you want to be able to do something that the core files can't do for you. That will happen regardless of whether you release updates in chapters, seasons, or whatever. Eventually, the core files need a rewrite to be able to continue to add content, regardless of what you call your updates.

If using chapters or seasons somehow magically negated the need to ever work on the core files that underpin the content files, you would be within your rights to say that DC should have made the game in chapters or seasons, but he didn't. Unless you're offering him a time machine, how would that advice be any use to him now? Whatever he should have done that he didn't do, he didn't do it, so a rewrite is needed. That's what's going on. They should haven't built Mexico City on a dry lakebed, but they did. What good does pointing that out now accomplish? The time to avoid that mistake was centuries ago!

I've been programming for most of my life, and I go to industry conferences every year. If there was a way to predict your future needs so that you would never need an extensive code rewrite when your project gets 10x bigger than it was when it started, I'm sure someone would have mentioned it at the conference I was at last week. Instead, we talked about the fact that code rewrites now fail 70% of the time (the figure used to be 50%). Significant code rewrites are an inevitable part of a growing project. Every project manager knows that. You're not a programmer. The fact that you're not qualified to give programming advice is abundantly clear. Maybe find something else to wank to while you're waiting for the Tech Update? I don't know what fetish code shaming feeds, but the rest of us didn't come here to see you get off on ignorant code criticism.

I think your criticism is irrelevant. It's not about coding here.

He's been working on the Tech Uptade for two years now. And we have to admit that it can't be easy for him. But now we're waiting for some backgrounds. Does that mean we have to wait 20 years to see a scene with Mrs. Johnson for example?

It's just nonsense.

 

[Count Morado]

I think your criticism is irrelevant. It's not about coding here.

He's been working on the Tech Uptade for two years now. And we have to admit that it can't be easy for him. But now we're waiting for some backgrounds. Does that mean we have to wait 20 years to see a scene with Mrs. Johnson for example?

It's just nonsense.

Where did you get the idea that the tech update waiting on backgrounds? The art is 100% done. It was 98% done in January 2022, 16 months ago. No one is waiting on art. No one is waiting on scripts.

The two areas being waited on (not counting the bugs/issues found during playtesting, when it occurs) are Posing 20k plus images (74% of which is done) and Code within those 1600+ files (64% of which is done).

So, yes, what an experienced programmer who has become familiar with those 1600 files has to say about the process is not only relevant but also material to the whinging that continues to pervade this thread. Because it is the coding (and the posing) that the tech update is currently focused upon - and has been, primarily, since day one of the development of the tech update.

There are 10k+ games available for download through F95 - use your time exploring other games rather than whinging about one, single, solitary game. Particularly when you have no clue why or about what you are whinging.

Jack Kerouac wouldn't give you the time of day for the kind of entitlement you are exhibiting.

 

[ZZTuner]

Where did you get the idea that the tech update waiting on backgrounds? The art is 100% done. It was 98% done in January 2022, 16 months ago. No one is waiting on art. No one is waiting on scripts.
View attachment 2632535
The two areas being waited on (not counting the bugs/issues found during playtesting, when it occurs) are Posing 20k plus images (74% of which is done) and Code within those 1600+ files (64% of which is done).

So, yes, what an experienced programmer who has become familiar with those 1600 files has to say about the process is not only relevant but also material to the whinging that continues to pervade this thread. Because it is the coding (and the posing) that the tech update is currently focused upon - and has been, primarily, since day one of the development of the tech update.

There are 10k+ games available for download through F95 - use your time exploring other games rather than whinging about one, single, solitary game. Particularly when you have no clue why or about what you are whinging.

Jack Kerouac wouldn't give you the time of day for the kind of entitlement you are exhibiting.

I reaffirm my words when I say that the development of the game is dragging.
When I talk about "backgrounds", I refer to what we will have in the game, since until proven otherwise this update only brings additional locations

You show me a progress bar that hasn't moved in months. If we go in your way, we can deduce a lot of things. I'm not whining, I'm just pointing out the slowness of the development.

I see that my profile picture is doing its job, if it can reassure you I intend to change it for Tom Wolfe.

 

[ImTransAndTiny]

I reaffirm my words when I say that the development of the game is dragging.
When I talk about "backgrounds", I refer to what we will have in the game, since until proven otherwise this update only brings additional locations

If that's what you've heard, no wonder you're so upset! Actually, it makes the game 16:9. That required redrawing almost every background, and reposing every scene in the game. If they had limited themselves to that, it would have been a big project. Unfortunately, they're also using the occasion to replace all of the old, non-layered images, and all of the old-style code with the new-style code. Adding a crapload of additional locations that no one asked for at the same time was downright foolhardy. This is an extremely ambitious update that should have been broken into separate code update, aspect ratio change, and new location updates. This is a prime example of Hofstadter's law, which states, "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law." You think it's going to take months, and then it takes years. That's why you shouldn't try do to this much in a single update. But they did, and there's nothing we can do about it. But MAN is it going to be a huge update. Those of us who mod the game are going to be busy for a VERY long time after it comes out.

 

[atomicp]

After what I think it's like, two years... do the Rhonda route exists now?

 

[Deleted member 105120]

If that's what you've heard, no wonder you're so upset! Actually, it makes the game 16:9. That required redrawing almost every background, and reposing every scene in the game. If they had limited themselves to that, it would have been a big project. Unfortunately, they're also using the occasion to replace all of the old, non-layered images, and all of the old-style code with the new-style code. Adding a crapload of additional locations that no one asked for at the same time was downright foolhardy. This is an extremely ambitious update that should have been broken into separate code update, aspect ratio change, and new location updates. This is a prime example of Hofstadter's law, which states, "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law." You think it's going to take months, and then it takes years. That's why you shouldn't try do to this much in a single update. But they did, and there's nothing we can do about it. But MAN is it going to be a huge update. Those of us who mod the game are going to be busy for a VERY long time after it comes out.

the promise of tech update this not include it makes the game 16:9 (There is render to even support that). They keep adding thing on the line and on the way they develop. they could have just made another branch and keep adding content. Secondly it almost 2 year and the last update is almost 1 year. So if they have all image 100% then there is no reason to delay duel to they have hire more people to develop. I used to sub 20$ and they keep add thing on the line no output of the games, even in discord they only show drawing process new image but no footage of games play or time for release. Yet here you defend them for taking more than 1 mil in a year yet the near update so sad I could not tell that they are joking or not. When they take on Patreon, the games become a multiple investor game not a free games any more. They don't take account for what they doing. Now from 100k of donating they drop to 50k of donating. When it reach to few thousand maybe the game won't finish, the company will just close.

 

[chicho1958]

the promise of tech update this not include it makes the game 16:9 (There is render to even support that). They keep adding thing on the line and on the way they develop. they could have just made another branch and keep adding content. Secondly it almost 2 year and the last update is almost 1 year. So if they have all image 100% then there is no reason to delay duel to they have hire more people to develop. I used to sub 20$ and they keep add thing on the line no output of the games, even in discord they only show drawing process new image but no footage of games play or time for release. Yet here you defend them for taking more than 1 mil in a year yet the near update so sad I could not tell that they are joking or not. When they take on Patreon, the games become a multiple investor game not a free games any more. They don't take account for what they doing. Now from 100k of donating they drop to 50k of donating. When it reach to few thousand maybe the game won't finish, the company will just close.

you just have to be ready for when it comes, I don't know how long I have but I'm always prepared, my wifi paid till 2099

 

[Count Morado]

do the Rhonda route exists now?

No. Still waiting on the tech update.

this not include it makes the game 16:9

You're wrong. It does include it. The new art that is previewed is in the 16:9 format.
Here's the list of the original goals of the tech update.

So if they have all image 100% then there is no reason to delay duel to they have hire more people to develop.

DC doesn't want to hire more people to update the code. He wants one person to update and consolidate the code.

here you defend them

Not defending - simply stating the facts. People seem to confuse the two. Makes me wonder just what people have against facts...

no footage of games play or time for release

They never (or rarely?) have in the 7 years they've been officially developing this game and probably never will change what is done in discord or picarto.

When they take on Patreon, the games become a multiple investor game not a free games any more

That's not how Patreon works. If you think you are investing in a product on Patreon, you are the person who is mistaken. It's a tip jar for subscribers. Nothing more, nothing less. The only difference is if a developer is explicitly stating differently. Which DC doesn't do.

Also, yes, the game is free for anyone to play - and available on DC's website free for anyone to download. A person doesn't need to be a subscriber to download or play. Subscribers aren't tipping/donating for the game. Again, if they think they are - that's their problem, because they are wrong.

When it reach to few thousand maybe the game won't finish, the company will just close.

Maybe it will. Then won't you feel victorious?! That kind of logic in a comment full of whining that they want an update but then wishing subscriptions dry up so that maybe the developer will stop developing. If there ever was a perfect example of Aesop's fable of the "Fox and the Grapes"...

Bottom line is - you chose to donate $20 per month and you chose to stop. It was your choice on both counts. If you thought that $20 was buying something, you were wrong. If you thought that $20 was investing in something, you were wrong. If you thought that $20 was a tip to show how much you enjoyed playing the game, liked the artwork, or liked the story, or something -- nothing more than that -- then you were correct.

 

[chicho1958]

No. Still waiting on the tech update.
View attachment 2632739

You're wrong. It does include it. The new art that is previewed is in the 16:9 format.
Here's the list of the original goals of the tech update.
DC doesn't want to hire more people to update the code. He wants one person to update and consolidate the code.

Not defending - simply stating the facts. People seem to confuse the two. Makes me wonder just what people have against facts...

They never (or rarely?) have in the 7 years they've been officially developing this game and probably never will change what is done in discord or picarto.

That's not how Patreon works. If you think you are investing in a product on Patreon, you are the person who is mistaken. It's a tip jar for subscribers. Nothing more, nothing less. The only difference is if a developer is explicitly stating differently. Which DC doesn't do.

Also, yes, the game is free for anyone to play - and available on DC's website free for anyone to download. A person doesn't need to be a subscriber to download or play. Subscribers aren't tipping/donating for the game. Again, if they think they are - that's their problem, because they are wrong.

Maybe it will. Then won't you feel victorious?! That kind of logic in a comment full of whining that they want an update but then wishing subscriptions dry up so that maybe the developer will stop developing. If there ever was a perfect example of Aesop's fable of the "Fox and the Grapes"...

Bottom line is - you chose to donate $20 per month and you chose to stop. It was your choice on both counts. If you thought that $20 was buying something, you were wrong. If you thought that $20 was investing in something, you were wrong. If you thought that $20 was a tip to show how much you enjoyed playing the game, liked the artwork, or liked the story, or something -- nothing more than that -- then you were correct.

The way people react is like this is the only game, people need to be prepared or have a cold one to chill, well ok maybe 2-3, yeah yeah all right 4-5...fck it get drunk enjoy life. Some of my games the rest on my pc(in emergency receiving a heart transplant)

 

[Marphey]

The way people react is like this is the only game, people need to be prepared or have a cold one to chill, well ok maybe 2-3, yeah yeah all right 4-5...fck it get drunk enjoy life. Some of my games the rest on my View attachment 2632826 pc(in emergency receiving a heart transplant)

Brah stop with the "This is not the only game" BS argument. We know this is not the only game we don't spend all day starring at this forum. I check this game once a week myself. It takes only 1 minute to comment here you know.

 

[Deleted member 378959]

Now you really hurt my feelings, you know?

Btw/ I don't have to prove anything. What did you ever do for the game or for the community?

"Reading posts like this I feel a strong urge to double my Patreon support for DC, just to piss some people off."

"double my Patreon support for DC, just to piss some people off."

Glad you understood my point

 

[Little ass licker]

 

[Deleted member 378959]

The way people react is like this is the only game, people need to be prepared or have a cold one to chill, well ok maybe 2-3, yeah yeah all right 4-5...fck it get drunk enjoy life. Some of my games the rest on my View attachment 2632826 pc(in emergency receiving a heart transplant)

Dawn of War - very nice!

Corrupted Kingdom and What a Legend are both pretty good too

 

[Xupuzulla]

What a Legend

"You are sick of waiting for the tech update?go play a game with even slower updates!"

 

[McSlut]

"You are sick of waiting for the tech update?go play a game with even slower updates!"

can't hate on WaL even though their updates are slow because

a. they make much less money than summertime saga and are not able to just hire additional coders
b. they are transparent and give regular weekly updates so you actually know what they have been doing all week
c. art and story are consistently good and are not getting worse like in STS
d. the devs somehow don't get sick every other week even though they have children too. weird isn't it?

 

[Deleted member 378959]

"You are sick of waiting for the tech update?go play a game with even slower updates!"

I just said it's a good NSFW game lol.

Idek what is going on with that game, last time I checked one of the devs was working when he was supposed to be in bed rest from an injury. Also I think they're a 3 person team bringing in less than 10k$/month which makes it even more impressive. But yes the updates do take long, though it's kinda understandable.