Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.4468] [Kompas Productions]

[ElfDrow]

You seems to have thought this through pretty alright. Crunching numbers and all.

Correction though: the cost of an average AAA game from start to release averages around 60 million bucks. Someone from Sony actually bitched about that the other day. 3 million+ is maybe in the AA range, but games like Rogue City also make me think that doesn’t apply anymore.

except those numbers have shown only in the last 3-5 years or so. and not every tittle takes that much money.
and the biggest point on that is that those most of that cost goes into marketing. not the actual development
you know. huge promotions, goodies giveaways, media, localization and maybe the worst of all Legal to copyright in all the countries you can.

as an example one of the most expensive games to make was duke nukem forever. (before the inflated numbers of the last few years, to justify costs to the investors )
20 million (wasted) by the dev in 10 years + 2.5 million by take-two interactive to complete (which they refused but that's beside the point). and when a publisher offers you 2.5 to finish a game is because that's what really costs.

bah! 3 million to make a game when you are not developing an in house engine, and running legal and marketing costs is WAAAAAAAY more than enough.

let's say I believe he really is from Somalia. if that was the case with the exchange rate, he probably owns a private island by now XD

also if he can pay a webmaster to put a site. he can pay an actual programmer to handle all the code monkey work. and focus on the art. and you know... actually finishing ONE game
but milking is so much more easy... right? >

 

[Count Morado]

came back to check on this aftera year, and zero progress? so he decided to go full scammer. nice.

but milking is so much more easy... right? >

T.G.I.F.
The
Game
Is
Free

A developer can't milk something they give to everyone for free.

How hard is that to understand?
No one has to pay anything to play it.
No one has to subscribe to anything to play it.
It's free.

It's not paywalled.
It's not a tier benefit.
It's not a retail item on Steam or Itch or GOG or in any store.
It's free by downloading it directly from the developer from their website.
It's free.

 

[ElfDrow]

A developer can't milk something they give to everyone for free.

yes they can. XD
patreon subscription ( which are not free ) + postponing a promised good ( as this moment looks like it's on purpose ) = more monthly payments = milking.

again. yes you can

 

[Count Morado]

yes they can. XD
patreon subscription ( which are not free ) + postponing a promised good ( as this moment looks like it's on purpose ) = more monthly payments = milking.

again. yes you can

The game is not a promised good to patreon subscribers. It's not a tier benefit. It's not paywalled. Nothing you are saying exists --- at all. You either do not understand how it works or are intentionally being obstinate or intentionally misleading people.



The only "game access" benefits that subscribers get are that DC gives links to subscribers 24 hours before giving links to the general public and subscribers get access to faster download servers than the general public.

Everyone who wants it and has internet access can download the game for free within 24 hours of release.

 

[Senigata]

yes they can. XD
patreon subscription ( which are not free ) + postponing a promised good ( as this moment looks like it's on purpose ) = more monthly payments = milking.

again. yes you can

See, that's the thing. Unlike other Patreon developers, which gate their game behind the payment, DC isn't doing that, so him taking forever is not against any sort of terms he has with the people paying him money. His case is much more of a 'patron of the arts' thing where people pay him to do whatever he does, not specifically to get the game.

It's not too dissimilar to the artists out there using Patreon. Think Sakimichan, who makes even more bank than DC does and twice a month at that for drawing pin up picks.

 

[ElfDrow]

The game is not a promised good to patreon subscribers. It's not a tier benefit. It's not paywalled. Nothing you are saying exists --- at all. You either do not understand how it works or are intentionally being obstinate or intentionally misleading people.

View attachment 3218339 View attachment 3218341

The only "game access" benefits that subscribers get are that DC gives links to subscribers 24 hours before giving links to the general public and subscribers get access to faster download servers than the general public.

Everyone who wants it and has internet access can download the game for free within 24 hours of release.

See, that's the thing. Unlike other Patreon developers, which gate their game behind the payment, DC isn't doing that, so him taking forever is not against any sort of terms he has with the people paying him money. His case is much more of a 'patron of the arts' thing where people pay him to do whatever he does, not specifically to get the game.

It's not too dissimilar to the artists out there using Patreon. Think Sakimichan, who makes even more bank than DC does and twice a month at that for drawing pin up picks.

I stand corrected. apparently he DOES have a PR team lol
anyway. do not make me go look for a snapshot of the site where he mentions finishing the game and possible date.

if you didn't like my comment. fine, take it and ignore me as a madman. (heck I never planned on more than asking if there was a release date in sight and raving in a spoiler lol)
but keep stirring the pot... btw whatabautism does not work as a counter argument XD

 

[Snugglepuff]

but keep stirring the pot... btw whatabautism does not work as a counter argument XD

You're the only one stirring here.

There's no "what-about-ism" happening on their part, just statements of fact and a fitting comparison to try and get through some deliberately thick heads.

 

[ElfDrow]

You're the only one stirring here.

There's no "what-about-ism" happening on their part, just statements of fact and a fitting comparison to try and get through some deliberately thick heads.

that's exactly whatabaoutism!
if A is being told is doing X, but B is also doing X. that means A is in the clear = whatabautism

 

[Snugglepuff]

that's exactly whatabaoutism!
if A is being told is doing X, but B is also doing X. that means A is in the clear = whatabautism

It's not "what-about-ism"... No matter how much you say it is, it's not.

You were being given a comparison that does similar to DC, that's all.
It wasn't a response of "Oh well, what about when <blah-blah> does this/that". It was a statement with a supporting comparison as an example. Literal opposite of "what-about-ism". That you either don't know the difference, or simply refuse to admit to it, is entirely on you.

 

[Senigata]

btw whatabautism does not work as a counter argument XD

Neither does deflection in trying to depict anyone who counters you as being a paid shill instead of actually engaging the points, friendo.

 

[ElfDrow]

Neither does deflection in trying to depict anyone who counters you as being a paid shill instead of actually engaging the points, friendo.

did I said paid? I just stated he has a PR team (HUGE difference)
seeing you are always fast to respond to any criticism (hence I stated that "before the usual suspects jump in defense")

also I never deflected anything lol
your only contribution to the debate, as you said. was deflecting the blame to another person XD
what other new point did you made beside that? the ones already made before when stated that it could not be milking? none

so... old points are ignored unless presenting new information.
I just stated that the only new argument was a deflection of blame (whataboutism)

 

[Senigata]

also I never deflected anything lol
your only contribution to the debate, as you said. was deflecting the blame to another person XD
what other new point did you made beside that? the ones already made before when stated that it could not be milking? none

I made a comparison between DC and an artist because DC is essentially getting paid the same way that artist does, for drawing something. That he makes a game is actually more of a secondary thing, since the game isn't directly gated behind any patreon payment.

Again, not unlike the many many other artists out there doing the same, but don't get accused of milking. Which was why I was made comparison to one. I don't see how one is alright, but the other isn't. So, sure, a bit of whataboutism, but the point isn't wrong either. If one is bad, so should the other.

 

[ElfDrow]

I made a comparison between DC and an artist because DC is essentially getting paid the same way that artist does, for drawing something. That he makes a game is actually more of a secondary thing, since the game isn't directly gated behind any patreon payment.

Again, not unlike the many many other artists out there doing the same, but don't get accused of milking. Which was why I was made comparison to one. I don't see how one is alright, but the other isn't. So, sure, a bit of whataboutism, but the point isn't wrong either. If one is bad, so should the other.

I agree with you that he is not the worse. but that doesn't makes it right.
nor the other creators are relevant to what DC is doing. if a lot of people are wrong, it doesn't absolve anything.

-----------

look. tell you what.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have a way to contact DC.
tell him (as a friendly advice) that there are better ways to "milk" players.
expansions, sequels, spinoffs are better ways to keep and make a franchise.
and yeah even adult games can make franchises. even when adult games where restricted Al Lowe made a big franchise of the Larry games. now it should be easy XD

postponing and not even finishing your flagship game is just about the worst way (and actually risky) of doing things.
finish the main story , then expand the world to keep players engaged on the same game.
I seen some indie storefronts with (adult) games that keep rising sales for years doing free updates. in this case that's a given but he will actually loose less patreons

if he can't keep the workload alone. hire some help. (Tod Howard didn't make the ES alone regardless of what hardcore fans think) and set milestones for payments. (that way they won't run off with the money lol)
it's ok to take time to finish things. but 10 years for a finish count of 0 is... not good

and NEVER assume that deleting some posts years later will absolve promises. servers take snapshots of their info on regular basis. that's the real reason the old say about "once in the internet, is there forever"

 

[Senigata]

I agree with you that he is not the worse. but that doesn't makes it right.
nor the other creators are relevant to what DC is doing. if a lot of people are wrong, it doesn't absolve anything.

-----------

look. tell you what.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have a way to contact DC.
tell him (as a friendly advice) that there are better ways to "milk" players.
expansions, sequels, spinoffs are better ways to keep and make a franchise.
and yeah even adult games can make franchises. even when adult games where restricted Al Lowe made a big franchise of the Larry games. now it should be easy XD

postponing and not even finishing your flagship game is just about the worst way (and actually risky) of doing things.
finish the main story , then expand the world to keep players engaged on the same game.
I seen some indie storefronts with (adult) games that keep rising sales for years doing free updates. in this case that's a given but he will actually loose less patreons

if he can't keep the workload alone. hire some help. (Tod Howard didn't make the ES alone regardless of what hardcore fans think) and set milestones for payments. (that way they won't run off with the money lol)
it's ok to take time to finish things. but 10 years for a finish count of 0 is... not good

and NEVER assume that deleting some posts years later will absolve promises. servers take snapshots of their info on regular basis. that's the real reason the old say about "once in the internet, is there forever"

You're assuming wrong. I'm honestly just tired of the endless cycle of bitching and rather have this thread fall into silence until there IS an update. Complaining here will not do anything.

 

[ElfDrow]

You're assuming wrong. I'm honestly just tired of the endless cycle of bitching and rather have this thread fall into silence until there IS an update. Complaining here will not do anything.

that's why my complain was in a quote lol

and who knows?... seeing so many stalwart defenders.
one probably knows him. a little advice is never wasted

btw. if you have nothing to do with him. relax and ignore the bitching.
if it's not directed to you, let it slide. that can't be good for your blood pressure.
I seen you respond to almost all the criticism comments before I made mine.

remember "do not feed the trolls". if what people says is actually pointless, and it doesn't involve you. just let it go

 

[j4yj4m]

that's why my complain was in a quote lol

and who knows?... seeing so many stalwart defenders.
one probably knows him. a little advice is never wasted

btw. if you have nothing to do with him. relax and ignore the bitching.
if it's not directed to you, let it slide. that can't be good for your blood pressure.
I seen you respond to almost all the criticism comments before I made mine.

remember "do not feed the trolls". if what people says is actually pointless, and it doesn't involve you. just let it go

Well, the excat same walls of text have been written like dozens of times in these last years, usually several times per month. That's likely the reason why some are just so tired to read the same stuff again and again and have little understanding for those who actually spend time on repeating what has been written down countless times.

 

[ElfDrow]

Well, the excat same walls of text have been written like dozens of times in these last years, usually several times per month. That's likely the reason why some are just so tired to read the same stuff again and again and have little understanding for those who actually spend time on repeating what has been written down countless times.

oh I understand. but my original comment was not a wall of text
I just responded to those that replied.

 

[Snugglepuff]

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here you go. expanding your horizons a little more.
you are welcomed

You've literally just reinforced what I said, dumbass.

 

[sucklepuck]

Y'all mothafuckas need to learn to embrace the Ignore button.

 

[ElfDrow]

You've literally just reinforced what I said, dumbass.

so what I said it was... is what the definition of the word says... what you claimed it was the opposite of...
and then reduce the argument name calling, and claiming the point?
lmao! XD
you must be a hit at kid parties