Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5091] [Kompas Productions]

[Jonboy80]

And another example of what an actual decline of patrons looks like. This one doesn't have recovering numbers like the previous one. Still has that regular monthly dip that bounces back up but never recovers.

 

[Jackie123]

So as i understand the game will not even come out on monday?

 

[Jamiek]

I just don't understand how people can keep defending this kind of stuff. DarkCookie is making $50K a month which is $600K a year. Minus what Patreon takes of course. That is a whole lot of money to only be able to put out one update every six months. To only be able to move 1% of the relative work in two weeks. One of the goals on his patreon was when he reached $30K he was going to look for other people. This is not an indie dev any more. You can't say that on $600K a year budget on a Renpy game. With the amount of money that has gone into the project, there should be updates on a monthly basis. And even that is generous, really should be every 2 weeks. It is all back to context, there are devs here that get things done much faster with little to no support.

 

[Badjourasmix]

So as i understand the game will not even come out on monday?

I think it will probably come out next weekend. I'll have to wait at least a year to get an update that I actually care about anyway, so I'm not very concerned about this one.

 

[Badjourasmix]

I just don't understand how people can keep defending this kind of stuff. DarkCookie is making $50K a month which is $600K a year. Minus what Patreon takes of course. That is a whole lot of money to only be able to put out one update every six months. To only be able to move 1% of the relative work in two weeks. One of the goals on his patreon was when he reached $30K he was going to look for other people. This is not an indie dev any more. You can't say that on $600K a year budget on a Renpy game. With the amount of money that has gone into the project, there should be updates on a monthly basis. And even that is generous, really should be every 2 weeks. It is all back to context, there are devs here that get things done much faster with little to no support.

Even if he got another artist he wouldn't be able to release an update every month. As long as he is the only one doing all the art, the updates will take 5-6 months.

 

[zeppelin]

You asked what the dips represented, @j4yj4m gave a response. There's a cycle to Patreon where people stop supporting on the first. The point is that even if you don't donate, you still get to play the game. You might not have access to other features such as voting but you don't really need it when there's other ways to communicate.

From the outside looking in, you asked a question, you got an answer, you moved the goalposts. Even with the historical argument, the point was valid. People stop pledges when they no longer feel the value is worth it. Whether that's for polls or not is their individual self interest. Not the point being made.

I never said that patrons get the game earlier, nor is that at all relevant. That was my entire point.

Just cause everyone gets the update at the same time doesn't mean waiting until after the 1st to release the update is somehow illogical.

 

[Jonboy80]

I just don't understand how people can keep defending this kind of stuff. DarkCookie is making $50K a month which is $600K a year. Minus what Patreon takes of course. That is a whole lot of money to only be able to put out one update every six months. To only be able to move 1% of the relative work in two weeks. One of the goals on his patreon was when he reached $30K he was going to look for other people. This is not an indie dev any more. You can't say that on $600K a year budget on a Renpy game. With the amount of money that has gone into the project, there should be updates on a monthly basis. And even that is generous, really should be every 2 weeks. It is all back to context, there are devs here that get things done much faster with little to no support.

I don't understand why you think the level of income should have an effect on the speed of development. And he is an indie dev. A team of four or five does not make you some bigshot development company. Ever notice how indie titles tends to be more fun and original? Ever wonder why? It's because they can work at their own pace to make things how they want without having to appease to the stockholders.

As to other devs here getting things done more quickly - Most of those devs are using stock or reused DAZ3D models and backgrounds. It's not that difficult to pose a premade model and slap them into a premade room. I've seen the same furniture/room/etc in almost every 3D Ren'py title. Several games have the same charcters with, maybe, a different hairstyle and some different clothes. Dark Cookie draws everything. Characters, backgrounds, inventory icons, etc. You're comparing apples to oranges. It's like me comparing the quarter mile results of a Porsche 911 and an El Camino.

Add on to that that most games that try to be different than the standard Ren'py 3D title are slow to update. SweGabe and Opala Origins hasn't had a public update in two years, for example. Many have been on hold for ages or outright abandoned. Doing your own work takes far longer than, basically, copy/pasting premade assets into a scene and then writing up some text (whose quality varies greatly) to go with it.

 

[Beerus]

I took a 6 month nap and still no update? Perhaps I will have to destroy Universe 7 after all...

 

[Jonboy80]

Different Strokes for different folks, as the saying goes over here in the United States.

Everyone has preferences for looks and art style.

 

[Jamiek]

I don't understand why you think the level of income should have an effect on the speed of development. And he is an indie dev. A team of four or five does not make you some bigshot development company. Ever notice how indie titles tends to be more fun and original? Ever wonder why? It's because they can work at their own pace to make things how they want without having to appease to the stockholders.

As to other devs here getting things done more quickly - Most of those devs are using stock or reused DAZ3D models and backgrounds. It's not that difficult to pose a premade model and slap them into a premade room. I've seen the same furniture/room/etc in almost every 3D Ren'py title. Several games have the same charcters with, maybe, a different hairstyle and some different clothes. Dark Cookie draws everything. Characters, backgrounds, inventory icons, etc. You're comparing apples to oranges. It's like me comparing the quarter mile results of a Porsche 911 and an El Camino.

Add on to that that most games that try to be different than the standard Ren'py 3D title are slow to update. SweGabe and Opala Origins hasn't had a public update in two years, for example. Many have been on hold for ages or outright abandoned. Doing your own work takes far longer than, basically, copy/pasting premade assets into a scene and then writing up some text (whose quality varies greatly) to go with it.

The level of income should always impact the speed of development. Its literally the whole economy of gaming. The more money you have the bigger your team can be and the more products you can release to the market. When games face delays it usually comes down to the development team, circumstances with the direction/director or last minute publisher demands. As you mentioned that he is indie and has no one warping his vision to add microtranctions for example, then thats not a liable excuse. You cannot tell me that a developer who is making over half a million a year cannot bring in other people to work on Renpy code. This is not rendered in the Unreal engine with high end 3D graphis. It is simply an image based game. It should never take six months for an update when you have that level of income coming in. Renpy code is much easier. I know that he does his own art which is a step above a lot of the prerendered 3D art that is use by other developers. And in fact I would say that his game is one of the best one out there compared to the competition. However I always go back to $50K a month, $300K in 6 months is not enough to release an update? If that is the case it is time to bring some more people into the team. But I do see your points.

 

[Bonhart]

at this point I hope that the full version comes out, as far as I understand 2 out of 3 animations were made of the 0.18.5 version, after so long to let out only the 0.18 version I would see it as a jack for the ass


(Sorry my english)

 

[Yatoy]

i dont get it
why bother with this game?
the caracters are butt ugly LOL
Muppar(or WT will do it) is what we call these caracters for in sweden

spend money on Taffy tales instead if you want to support a game with real sexy womans.

I preffer Silvya against taffy tales, but is a personal opinion, everyone with their needs jaja

 

[buntd]

I just checked on this game since december, because I was expecting that the Eve-Update would be almost finished by now.
Oh boy was I wrong...

 

[Giseme2233]

I took a 6 month nap and still no update? Perhaps I will have to destroy Universe 7 after all...

You mean destroy the universe and remake universe 7 again? Maybe we will be in the timeline where DC got the final version of SS done by this time ;D

 

[Jonboy80]

The level of income should always impact the speed of development. Its literally the whole economy of gaming. The more money you have the bigger your team can be and the more products you can release to the market. When games face delays it usually comes down to the development team, circumstances with the direction/director or last minute publisher demands. As you mentioned that he is indie and has no one warping his vision to add microtranctions for example, then thats not a liable excuse. You cannot tell me that a developer who is making over half a million a year cannot bring in other people to work on Renpy code. This is not rendered in the Unreal engine with high end 3D graphis. It is simply an image based game. It should never take six months for an update when you have that level of income coming in. Renpy code is much easier. I know that he does his own art which is a step above a lot of the prerendered 3D art that is use by other developers. And in fact I would say that his game is one of the best one out there compared to the competition. However I always go back to $50K a month, $300K in 6 months is not enough to release an update? If that is the case it is time to bring some more people into the team. But I do see your points.

While, in general, budget dictates release speeds, it's not the rule. Especially on a free for everyone title where you're not paying for access. His patrons are, primarily, paying him for two reasons:

1. People like what he's done so far, so they are tipping him an average of $3 a month.
2. People like what he's done so far, so they're investing an average of $3 a month for him to continue developing.

Very few people are actually complaining about his update speeds. He has over 17,000 patrons and most are pretty quiet. Some few are complaining but they're the minority. If I'm not mistaken, he even had a poll about updates and the majority voted that how it was progressing was fine. Most people would rather have higher quality content, even if that means waiting a while.

Skip to next paragraph if you don't wanna read this- As for the actual income, no one can speak for that except DC and his financial people (if he has any). It's not like he gets 50k free and clear. Patreon takes their cut and then you start going into taxes and whatnot. Income tax, possibly business taxes since he, technically, is a business now, etc. He also has six staff (according to the Team page for Kompass Productions) working on the game that gets paid from that 50k. I don't know how that's split but if it was an even split, he'd be bringing in over 7k a month before taxes. Less because Patreon takes a 5% cut of that IIRC. Based on the United States tax brackets, and him making around 84k a year, he's looking at 22% tax rate, so that's around 65k a year after taxes.

Regardless, of my rambling, I'm just saying it's not as easy as just looking at the base amount he's making and assuming it all goes into the game. These people have spouses and children and some work full-time on the game. It is their job, it is their sole source of income, so some of that money goes to everyday living costs.

 

[Ungawa]

I never said that patrons get the game earlier, nor is that at all relevant. That was my entire point.

Neither did I. You made the argument about a point no one made which you're doing right now.

Just cause everyone gets the update at the same time doesn't mean waiting until after the 1st to release the update is somehow illogical.

Missing the point that people stop their funding for their own reasons in a cyclical pattern which is what you're ignoring.

 

[Ungawa]

The level of income should always impact the speed of development. Its literally the whole economy of gaming.

Untrue at all. Compare Bioware's early games like Jade Empire to Anthem and you'll find a stark difference between the idea of games making money and money for making games.

The more money you have the bigger your team can be and the more products you can release to the market.

Money for a game does not calculate to a game's success. See also Anthem, 6 years of development and chaotic management that destroyed the team and production.

When games face delays it usually comes down to the development team, circumstances with the direction/director or last minute publisher demands. As you mentioned that he is indie and has no one warping his vision to add microtranctions for example, then thats not a liable excuse.

Then you're being dishonest by comparing the AAA industry as you're doing to indie development, particularly the adult gaming niche that this game belongs to.

You cannot tell me that a developer who is making over half a million a year cannot bring in other people to work on Renpy code. This is not rendered in the Unreal engine with high end 3D graphis.

This is just dishonest. This has nothing to do with the speed of production or what's being done behind the scenes. Even though Anthem had 6 years, are you telling me that they could only produce Anthem with perpetual crunch and mismanagement when they've created great games in the past? Why does this matter to Kompas' team and their way of producing content?

It is simply an image based game. It should never take six months for an update when you have that level of income coming in. Renpy code is much easier. I know that he does his own art which is a step above a lot of the prerendered 3D art that is use by other developers.

So how is it that you know so much about the engine used and the limitations in this niche game to complain but don't see why or how the other aspects (story, posing, etc) might also be hangups?

And in fact I would say that his game is one of the best one out there compared to the competition. However I always go back to $50K a month, $300K in 6 months is not enough to release an update? If that is the case it is time to bring some more people into the team. But I do see your points.

It's still a fallacy to think that more people on the team will affect production when one coder just left the team, another artist is highly expensive and somehow, the money means that it's a measure of success instead of fallacious thinking about what's actually happening behind the scenes?

 

[Jamiek]

Anyone knows when the update will land?

The speculation is next week. But no solid evidence on that. It could be two weeks from now. Either way there is going to be bugs and bug fix. So it could take longer depending.

 

[401Grem]

I just don't understand how people can keep defending this kind of stuff. DarkCookie is making $50K a month which is $600K a year. Minus what Patreon takes of course. That is a whole lot of money to only be able to put out one update every six months. To only be able to move 1% of the relative work in two weeks. One of the goals on his patreon was when he reached $30K he was going to look for other people. This is not an indie dev any more. You can't say that on $600K a year budget on a Renpy game. With the amount of money that has gone into the project, there should be updates on a monthly basis. And even that is generous, really should be every 2 weeks. It is all back to context, there are devs here that get things done much faster with little to no support.

Why not put your intelligent brain to good use, and concern yourself with things you CAN control, and not things that don't concern you?

 

[Jamiek]

Untrue at all. Compare Bioware's early games like Jade Empire to Anthem and you'll find a stark difference between the idea of games making money and money for making games.




Money for a game does not calculate to a game's success. See also Anthem, 6 years of development and chaotic management that destroyed the team and production.

[quote When games face delays it usually comes down to the development team, circumstances with the direction/director or last minute publisher demands. As you mentioned that he is indie and has no one warping his vision to add microtranctions for example, then thats not a liable excuse.

Then you're being dishonest by comparing the AAA industry as you're doing to indie development, particularly the adult gaming niche that this game belongs to.



This is just dishonest. This has nothing to do with the speed of production or what's being done behind the scenes. Even though Anthem had 6 years, are you telling me that they could only produce Anthem with perpetual crunch and mismanagement when they've created great games in the past? Why does this matter to Kompas' team and their way of producing content?



So how is it that you know so much about the engine used and the limitations in this niche game to complain but don't see why or how the other aspects (story, posing, etc) might also be hangups?



It's still a fallacy to think that more people on the team will affect production when one coder just left the team, another artist is highly expensive and somehow, the money means that it's a measure of success instead of fallacious thinking about what's actually happening behind the scenes?
[/QUOTE]

Very well said. Bioware is one of my favorite developers ever and EA's greed killed them to my complete sadness. Jade Empire is a hidden gem that many people should play and I have been asking for a sequel for years. But I am not being dishonest. I have no idea of how Darkcookie does his business or how he takes his funding and uses it. In fact I do not think anyone here knows. I am just giving an opinion based on his track record, the consistency of the content and the amount of money that his Patreon says he is making. Nothing else. An assumption based on what little data is out there and what little information the dev gives on his far inbetween updates in patreon. Due to this the argument is flawed because the data is lacking. I know that every game is different and every team is different. Look at Undertale, look at Super Meat Boy, look at binding of Issac, etc. I like to see people's views on this subject since games media is something I care about and this being one of the highest funded H rated games out there is one of interest for me. No necessarily saying that anyone here is wrong or right, just differences of opinions. But I had a dream that everyone here will be able to fap on a timely matter or at least on a consistently bases. Maybe once every 1-2 months on this game not once every 6 months. And is there so wrong to ask? People are dying from the thirst, don't you see?