Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5091] [Kompas Productions]

[yoyomistro]

Dont forget that it was not and never was intented to be a trans genre game. I kinda fekt hijacked by it. And drawing the trans animations takes time and effort from normal content. But i can live with how it is now.

DarkCookie literally said there was a trans character from the very first release from of the game. In fact he made a bit of a game in the early streams of having people try to figure out who it was going to be. No one who knew anything about the game should feel like it was a "hijack". I haven't forgotten anything. Perhaps you were just missing some information.

EDIT: Also what do you mean takes time from "normal" content? Every character is drawn independently, the only way that would be the case is if he had stock rigs/bodies and put a different face onto them, which does not happen. Everything about your whole comment is just wrong besides where you express your opinion, lol.

 

[j4yj4m]

Dont forget that it was not and never was intented to be a trans genre game. I kinda fekt hijacked by it. And drawing the trans animations takes time and effort from normal content. But i can live with how it is now.

I'm sorry to object, but that's certainly not the case.

As long as I remember DC said during streams that there would be (was, when he was joking) a monster girl in the game, which then became Aqua. And he said that there would be a "trap" among the schoolgirls, long before any of them even had any kind of content. And he was pretty adamant that it would indeed be a schoolgirl when people suggested Coach Bridget or so. So you can be sure that he was imagining this more or less from the start. And I'm pretty sure that it was always meant to be Eve, given the way the old character was dressed and given that (s)he was the only schoolgirl who never had a real, obvious hook where the story would go. If anything it's actually Eve's female branch which kinda takes away the resources, given that it makes obviously quite a bit less sense.
The same is by the way true for Kevin, who was always intended to get some content at some point.

 

[Dragon59]

I'm sorry to object, but that's certainly not the case.

As long as I remember DC said during streams that there would be (was, when he was joking) a monster girl in the game, which then became Aqua. And he said that there would be a "trap" among the schoolgirls, long before any of them even had any kind of content. And he was pretty adamant that it would indeed be a schoolgirl when people suggested Coach Bridget or so. So you can be sure that he was imagining this more or less from the start. And I'm pretty sure that it was always meant to be Eve, given the way the old character was dressed and given that (s)he was the only schoolgirl who never had a real, obvious hook where the story would go. If anything it's actually Eve's female branch which kinda takes away the resources, given that it makes obviously quite a bit less sense.
The same is by the way true for Kevin, who was always intended to get some content at some point.

I also remember hearing from DC (or was it $10+ patrons) about Eve's history.

Due to my own experience IRL, I consider both Eves to be female. One is a cis woman, the other is a trans woman. I also despise the slur, "Trap."
In my mind, trans Eve's story is MUCH more powerful and moving than cis Eve's. Her trauma and self hatred makes much more sense for her original trans version. MC helping her to accept that who she is is OK is a big part of the story.

 

[yoyomistro]

I also remember hearing from DC (or was it $10+ patrons) about Eve's history.

Due to my own experience IRL, I consider both Eves to be female. One is a cis woman, the other is a trans woman. I also despise the slur, "Trap."
In my mind, trans Eve's story is MUCH more powerful and moving than cis Eve's. Her trauma and self hatred makes much more sense for her original trans version. MC helping her to accept that who she is is OK is a big part of the story.

Yea, DarkCookie didn't realize most people don't use the word trap for actual trans people early on, I haven't seen him use that term for Eve's path in at least two years. I'm not in the camp of people who think that word shouldn't be used at all, there are some people who hate that word and femboy, even though I know a few guys who dress/present in a feminine way who use those words to refer to themselves, but identify fully as male or don't care how you address them pronounwise. If that's the word you want to use to describe yourself, that's whatever but I don't (personally) know any trans women who want to be referred to that way.

 

[Dragon59]

Yea, DarkCookie didn't realize most people don't use the word trap for actual trans people early on, I haven't seen him use that term for Eve's path in at least two years. I'm not in the camp of people who think that word shouldn't be used at all, there are some people who hate that word and femboy, even though I know a few guys who dress/present in a feminine way who use those words to refer to themselves, but identify fully as male or don't care how you address them pronounwise. If that's the word you want to use to describe yourself, that's whatever but I don't (personally) know any trans women who want to be referred to that way.

Yup. Like the "N-word" and the "F-word" (for homosexual), those who are in that group can use it amongst themselves.

Spoiler: Prejudice, by Tim Minchin

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[j4yj4m]

I'd personally consider DC a guy who really doesn't mean anything bad but who just doesn't really bother to care for this stuff up to the point that he actively searches for the right words to use. I still remember him telling that he once asked some questions on some kind of transforum on reddit or so and that he got so much flack for using the word trap, though he was happy that some people actually answered his questions.

In the end it's always better to mean the right thing and to use the wrong words than just to look at the words and to forget the rest.

Yup. Like the "N-word" and the "F-word" (for homosexual), those who are in that group can use it amongst themselves.

Which, to be fair, is something that should stop at some point if we actually ever want to reach a state of actual equality. Dividing people into more and more groups with more and more special rituals, words, etc. will only ever take us so far.

 

[Dragon59]

I'd personally consider DC a guy who really doesn't mean anything bad but who just doesn't really bother to care for this stuff up to the point that he actively searches for the right words to use. I still remember him telling that he once asked some questions on some kind of transforum on reddit or so and that he got so much flack for using the word trap, though he was happy that some people actually answered his questions.

That's good to hear, I'd heard that he'd gotten a icy cold shoulder when he asked for advice.

In the end it's always better to mean the right thing and to use the wrong words than just to look at the words and to forget the rest.

Reminds me of something I've heard many times--those who want to take advantage of LGBTQ+ often learn all the terms flawlessly in order to gain their confidence. It advises to recognize when someone is genuinely trying to do the right thing, to use the right terms, even if they stumble.

Which, to be fair, is something that should stop at some point if we actually ever want to reach a state of actual equality. Dividing people into more and more groups with more and more special rituals, words, etc. will only ever take us so far.

I often consider myself "mildly gender non-conforming." Nothing drastic, but I really never fit in with boys growing up, never got some of their attitudes and felt more at ease in the company of girls. I often look to the time when "gender non-conformity" is no longer a thing.

 

[yoyomistro]

Yup. Like the "N-word" and the "F-word" (for homosexual), those who are in that group can use it amongst themselves.

Spoiler: Prejudice, by Tim Minchin

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Exactly .

I'd personally consider DC a guy who really doesn't mean anything bad but who just doesn't really bother to care for this stuff up to the point that he actively searches for the right words to use. I still remember him telling that he once asked some questions on some kind of transforum on reddit or so and that he got so much flack for using the word trap, though he was happy that some people actually answered his questions.

In the end it's always better to mean the right thing and to use the wrong words than just to look at the words and to forget the rest.


Which, to be fair, is something that should stop at some point if we actually ever want to reach a state of actual equality. Dividing people into more and more groups with more and more special rituals, words, etc. will only ever take us so far.

Yea, DC never used it maliciously. I hate when people jump on someone who's obviously not doing something considered bad with ill-intent and immediately judge them for it as opposed to explaining why they think it's wrong.

Also, on using slurs self-referentially, I honestly think it's fine. I'm black and use the n-word with my black friends and as a general interjection/epithet (not in the derogatory sense of the word, but in the sense of a stand-in generic descriptor). None of my white friends get offended or feel it's hypocritical they can't use it, as most people should. Also some of my gay friends use the f-word amongst themselves. Those words use in that way might fade out once society gets to a place that's actually good for everyone, or they might be subject to further evolution on the dysphemistic treadmill and come to refer to completely different things as many words have over the years. Until then, I'm pro using them as members of the group they're used against.

 

[poopfartshitcum]

As far as I'm aware the plan right now is/was to release a small update prior to the actual tech update which would include the first batch. Then we'd get the second one with the actual widescreen conversion.

does that mean the progress meter now is for the small update?

 

[srksrk 68]

I'm sorry to object, but that's certainly not the case.

As long as I remember DC said during streams that there would be (was, when he was joking) a monster girl in the game, which then became Aqua. And he said that there would be a "trap" among the schoolgirls, long before any of them even had any kind of content. And he was pretty adamant that it would indeed be a schoolgirl when people suggested Coach Bridget or so. So you can be sure that he was imagining this more or less from the start. And I'm pretty sure that it was always meant to be Eve, given the way the old character was dressed and given that (s)he was the only schoolgirl who never had a real, obvious hook where the story would go. If anything it's actually Eve's female branch which kinda takes away the resources, given that it makes obviously quite a bit less sense.
The same is by the way true for Kevin, who was always intended to get some content at some point.

I honestly don't care what anybody *said* in some streams, be it DC or somebody else. Fact is the game was not a trans game (we may disagree about if it was intended to be or become one). I play it because it is vanilla. I don't want or need trans content and I want it to be skippable, which it is and I am fine with it. However, what I say is true: it takes a considerable amound of time to draw alternate animations, and added to the ever present shouts for more frequent updates and more content, this is a factor to be considered.

And, yes, I feel hijacked if my favorite game would change suddenly to what it never was.

 

[j4yj4m]

Also, on using slurs self-referentially, I honestly think it's fine. I'm black and use the n-word with my black friends and as a general interjection/epithet (not in the derogatory sense of the word, but in the sense of a stand-in generic descriptor). None of my white friends get offended or feel it's hypocritical they can't use it, as most people should. Also some of my gay friends use the f-word amongst themselves.

I'm from a country where we don't really have these kind of words for some groups in our daily live and I'm quite happy about that.
I just personally feel that it's either one or the other. Especially with the N-word I can't wrap my head around that it's ok to use it among one group, up to the point that it's heard everywhere, but that there can severe consquences for others, even if they use it without bad intentions. I just feel that it this whole situation doesn't really help anybody but just has the potential to maky everything worse.

I honestly don't care what anybody *said* in some streams, be it DC or somebody else. Fact is the game was not a trans game (we may disagree about if it was intended to be or become one). I play it because it is vanilla. I don't want or need trans content and I want it to be skippable, which it is and I am fine with it. However, what I say is true: it takes a considerable amound of time to draw alternate animations, and added to the ever present shouts for more frequent updates and more content, this is a factor to be considered.

And, yes, I feel hijacked if my favorite game would change suddenly to what it never was.

I'm not really sure I can follow your argument here. What you are describing is literally what patreon development is about. Content gets introduced piece by piece, one after the other. By the same argument you could say that SS was always meant to be an incest game and that this whole school girl stuff, the monster girls, the pregnancies, etc. have no place in the game because they weren't there in the beginning.

And as mentioned, for many years now this list has been on DC's patreon/

You must be registered to see the links

:

• Anal
• Breastfeeding
• Exhibitionism
• Glasses
• Gloryhole
• Group MM/F
• Group FF/M
• Harem
• Impregnation
• Latex
• Librarian
• Mild BDSM
• MILF
• Milking
• Monster Girl
• Muscle Girl
• Nurse
• Public Sex
• Spanking
• Toys
• Trans
• Vanilla M/F
• Vanilla M/M
• Voyeurism

It's not the best list to describe the game, but it's not like one can say one didn't know, when this is what the author of the game describes his game to be.

Yes, I'd fully agree that DC shouldn't overstep these lines and add, for example, NTR or other controversial stuff to SS - but up until now he only ever added the things he said he would. It's fine to disagree with some of these things, but I don't think it's right to say you didn't know it was coming.

does that mean the progress meter now is for the small update?

I don't think so. The last I heard was that they wanted to have small and last 4:3 update in between, just for these scenes and without any of the tech stuff. But I couldn't follw any streams recently, so thing may have changed.

 

[yoyomistro]

I honestly don't care what anybody *said* in some streams, be it DC or somebody else. Fact is the game was not a trans game (we may disagree about if it was intended to be or become one). I play it because it is vanilla. I don't want or need trans content and I want it to be skippable, which it is and I am fine with it. However, what I say is true: it takes a considerable amound of time to draw alternate animations, and added to the ever present shouts for more frequent updates and more content, this is a factor to be considered.

And, yes, I feel hijacked if my favorite game would change suddenly to what it never was.

OK you're just fucking trolling at this point or something lol. You're wrong and triggered something you don't like is in your favorite game. Boohoo. The game was always intended to have trans content and you're just sooooooo bothered that DC took time to make content that he always intended to have in his game because it's content you don't like. How dare he. He said he would have trans content, he has had trans content as one of the tags for intended content from the very fucking beginning. It's not your game, and it is what DC always intended it to be. The content he took time out to draw was the cis content for people like you and you still find something to complain about, and drawing a vagina probably only took an extra hour or two as the animations are the exact same. Fucking incredible.

I'm from a country where we don't really have these kind of words for some groups in our daily live and I'm quite happy about that.
I just personally feel that it's either one or the other. Especially with the N-word I can't wrap my head around that it's ok to use it among one group, up to the point that it's heard everywhere, but that there can severe consquences for others, even if they use it without bad intentions. I just feel that it this whole situation doesn't really help anybody but just has the potential to maky everything worse.


I'm not really sure I can follow your argument here. What you are describing is literally what patreon development is about. Content gets introduced piece by piece, one after the other. By the same argument you could say that SS was always meant to be an incest game and that this whole schoolgirl stuff, the monter girls, the pregnancies, etc. have no place in the game because they weren't there in the beginning.

And as mentioned, for many years now this list has been on DC's patreon/

You must be registered to see the links

which always looked like this:

• Anal
• Breastfeeding
• Exhibitionism
• Glasses
• Gloryhole
• Group MM/F
• Group FF/M
• Harem
• Impregnation
• Latex
• Librarian
• Mild BDSM
• MILF
• Milking
• Monster Girl
• Muscle Girl
• Nurse
• Public Sex
• Spanking
• Toys
• Trans
• Vanilla M/F
• Vanilla M/M
• Voyeurism

It's not the best list to describe the game, but it's not like one can say one didn't know, when this is what the author of the game describes his game to be.

Yes, I'd fully agree that DC shouldn't overstep these lines and add, for example, NTR or other controversial stuff to SS - but up until now he only ever added the things he said he would.

EDIT: The N-word thing is hard to get if you don't understand American history, especially modern cultural development in the post Jim Crow era. There are plenty of black people who don't like using it but there's plenty of contextual justification for its use.

 

[srksrk 68]

DarkCookie literally said there was a trans character from the very first release from of the game. In fact he made a bit of a game in the early streams of having people try to figure out who it was going to be. No one who knew anything about the game should feel like it was a "hijack". I haven't forgotten anything. Perhaps you were just missing some information.

EDIT: Also what do you mean takes time from "normal" content? Every character is drawn independently, the only way that would be the case is if he had stock rigs/bodies and put a different face onto them, which does not happen. Everything about your whole comment is just wrong besides where you express your opinion, lol.

Sorry, what I feel is my thing, not yours. If the game suddenly became more trans than before I have the right to feel hijacked, yes? As I said, I can live with how it is right now, so no need for further discussion here.

And it certainly means more effort to draw alternate animations as well as writing the story. Those things don't draw or write themselve alone. The drawing part nearly doubles (or in Eve's case: tripples because of the anal part) the effort because the relevant parts of the frame are different, even if there are some parts of the frame that can be re-used.

 

[srksrk 68]

OK you're just fucking trolling at this point or something lol. You're wrong and triggered something you don't like is in your favorite game. Boohoo. The game was always intended to have trans content and you're just sooooooo bothered that DC took time to make content that he always intended to have in his game because it's content you don't like. How dare he. He said he would have trans content, he has had trans content as one of the tags for intended content from the very fucking beginning. It's not your game, and it is what DC always intended it to be. The content he took time out to draw was the cis content for people like you and you still find something to complain about, and drawing a vagina probably only took an extra hour or two as the animations are the exact same. Fucking incredible.



EDIT: The N-word thing is hard to get if you don't understand American history, especially modern cultural development in the post Jim Crow era. There are plenty of black people who don't like using it but there's plenty of contextual justification for its use.

Are you trying to trigger me or what? Did I insult you at some point? Stop telling me I am trolling because I have an opinion.

 

[j4yj4m]

EDIT: The N-word thing is hard to get if you don't understand American history, especially modern cultural development in the post Jim Crow era. There are plenty of black people who don't like using it but there's plenty of contextual justification for its use.

I was indeed quite interested for some time and I totally get why people would start to use it in that given situation. I just have no idea where this situation will eventually end up now that time and societey progresses - especially since I feel ( and I may be wrong) that the word gets used more and more in let's say music or art in the last decade. The vast majority of people start to get along, intermingle, intermarry, etc. and I just feel that words like these don't do any good in that environment.

Then again, this isn't really the place for that discussion.

 

[yoyomistro]

Are you trying to trigger me or what? Did I insult you at some point? Stop telling me I am trolling because I have an opinion.

You're not stating an opinion though. An opinon would be "I don't like trans content." You said it "never was intented to be a trans genre game... And drawing the trans animations takes time and effort from normal content." Neither of which are factually true, yet you present them as fact. Three people tell you that you are, in fact, making incorrect statements about the content of the game and the game's development cycle, and present proof as to why you are incorrect. Then you persist in presenting your flawed, self-informed information as facts about the game's development. If you can't differentiate between an opinion and a fact, that doesn't change the definition of those words as defined in American or British English.

I was indeed quite interested for some time and I totally get why people would start to use it in that given situation. I just have no idea where this situation will eventually end up now that time and societey progresses - especially since I feel ( and I may be wrong) that the word gets used more and more in let's say music or art in the last decade. The vast majority of people start to get along, intermingle, intermarry, etc. and I just feel that words like these don't do any good in that environment.

Then again, this isn't really the place for that discussion.

Fair enough. Also the use of the word is as persistent in black American music as it has been for about 40-70 years, depending on the genres. It's just that music about the marginal experiences of black American experience has become more mainstream in the last 10-20 years, and the topics explored by those who crafted the media used to express those experiences has expanded in such a nearly unprecedented global fashion that people who were previously unexposed to the experiences and tropes core to the genres it's been used in are hearing it more than if it had never become as mainstream as it is.

 

[2xjj]

Having a trans character in the game or any forum of media is not "hijacking" it.

 

[jish55]

I'm looking at the map for the new tech update, and I feel like there's a little more to add due to the bottom row of houses, so with that, I feel we're going to have another 1-2 major map updates to expand the southern portion and possibly eastern portion of the town.

 

[Rickster82]

So "Summer Update", when?

 

[srksrk 68]

"... And drawing the trans animations takes time and effort from normal content." Neither of which are factually true, yet you present them as fact.

As I said I don't care what anybody *says* when I play a game. It had no trans content at the time and that is a fact even if you fail to recognize what a fact is. And again you fail to explain how providing additional content would not result in additional effort.

You can continue to insult as long as you like. I already told that I am fine with the trans content we got and all I want to say (and I also did) is that I want it to be skippable and completely optional. I don't remember who said it in the current discussion but it was mentioned that such content should not be skippable. I vote against that and nothing you rant about can change that.