Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5258] [Kompas Productions]

[j4yj4m]

Legit question: Do his streams correlate to coding or drawing?

He's just drawing. You can check out his last 24 streams or so.

 

[PayneToTheMax]

He's just drawing. You can check out his last 24 streams or so.

Tbf who would watch a stream of someone coding?

 

[hu lover]

Tbf who would watch a stream of someone coding?

My guess is that they are interested in coding and programming and want to learn and gain experience, I can't think of any other reason why people would watch someone else code.

 

[Dragon59]

Yup. But only for you.

You're saying that the game has an "aboner" for DWYA8888?

 

[Angora Kitty]

Its a lot of work. Adding borders to 16:9 at every existing picture in format 4:3(!), adding new scenes for the new won space (left and right)...
Finally thousands of drawings will to be handled.

 

[itsyeboii]

Its a lot of work. Adding borders to 16:9 at every existing picture in format 4:3(!), adding new scenes for the new won space (left and right)...
Finally thousands of drawings will to be handled.

And that's just the art, all of the code is being reworked and every asset is being renamed and reposed. Essentially everything is being redone from the ground up, how DC ever thought this would've only needed 3-4 months is insane to me.

 

[Lucky Guerrilla]

Would that really do much when the coders themselves don't work full-time on it?
That's the bigger issue, DC doesn't have anyone coding full-time.

No. Every project needs someone to manage it. Even if it's one person doing it on their own, they need to manage their time. Because some jobs are more enjoyable than others. Perhaps you're an artist, then art is fun, but you might spend your time producing art that isn't useful. Or you enjoy coding, in which case you spend your time tweaking code - making it that bit more concise or whatever. A project manager, even if they are also the lead artist, lead coder, lead writer, whatever has the unenviable job of telling you to knock it off. Even if it's just timetabling your own time to say: "I need to stop this at this point and do this boring job instead."

That has never been the case in this game. No one tells DC to stop fucking about with backgrounds or wallpapers, and no one has ever told the coders to stop tweaking this or tell the poser (whatever the fuck that is) to name the files in a human readable way.

In other words this game has never been properly project managed and it fucking shows and has since the beginning. DC needs to be a project manager but he's either unable or unwilling. That is the problem when thousands or dollars are being thrown his way; not that he's a bad artist or the coders are bad. They are incompetent and a portion of that $60k a month should have gone to someone who is competent who can manage the project and that it didn't happen 2 years ago is forgivable. That it didn't happen a year ago when the tech update was already late is unforgivable. The team is either lazy, stupid, or greedy. Or a combination of all three because the time this update is taking is ridiculous. An honest project team would not have waited until 9 months overdue before producing CYA "updates". An honest project team would have paused payment when they were overdue. But then that would also require decent project management and an attitude other than contempt for their patrons.

 

[teraptuss]

My guess is that they are interested in coding and programming and want to learn and gain experience, I can't think of any other reason why people would watch someone else code.

Vimphiliacs might be flogging to it.

 

[PayneToTheMax]

No. Every project needs someone to manage it. Even if it's one person doing it on their own, they need to manage their time. Because some jobs are more enjoyable than others. Perhaps you're an artist, then art is fun, but you might spend your time producing art that isn't useful. Or you enjoy coding, in which case you spend your time tweaking code - making it that bit more concise or whatever. A project manager, even if they are also the lead artist, lead coder, lead writer, whatever has the unenviable job of telling you to knock it off. Even if it's just timetabling your own time to say: "I need to stop this at this point and do this boring job instead."

That has never been the case in this game. No one tells DC to stop fucking about with backgrounds or wallpapers, and no one has ever told the coders to stop tweaking this or tell the poser (whatever the fuck that is) to name the files in a human readable way.

In other words this game has never been properly project managed and it fucking shows and has since the beginning. DC needs to be a project manager but he's either unable or unwilling. That is the problem when thousands or dollars are being thrown his way; not that he's a bad artist or the coders are bad. They are incompetent and a portion of that $60k a month should have gone to someone who is competent who can manage the project and that it didn't happen 2 years ago is forgivable. That it didn't happen a year ago when the tech update was already late is unforgivable. The team is either lazy, stupid, or greedy. Or a combination of all three because the time this update is taking is ridiculous. An honest project team would not have waited until 9 months overdue before producing CYA "updates". An honest project team would have paused payment when they were overdue. But then that would also require decent project management and an attitude other than contempt for their patrons.

The problem is that, say, DC hires someone like that and then...the coders and poser all jump ship because they are all doing this part time and don't want some cunt to ride their ass for a hobby project that they earn some bucks from. It’s not like anyone is contractually obligated here.

 

[Chili_Chale_Cholo]

And that's just the art, all of the code is being reworked and every asset is being renamed and reposed. Essentially everything is being redone from the ground up, how DC ever thought this would've only needed 3-4 months is insane to me.

Yes, but a time lapse of 3 years to do this tech update is just ridiculous, They are coding 2d art in Ren'Py in a point and click game, to be honest this update should have been completed by now.

 

[MurkyTurtle]

The problem is that, say, DC hires someone like that and then...the coders and poser all jump ship because they are all doing this part time and don't want some cunt to ride their ass for a hobby project that they earn some bucks from. It’s not like anyone is contractually obligated here.

He didn't say that the project manager needed to ride anyone's ass, but that they needed a project manager to properly supervise people to ensure both continuity and compatibility across work being done by different team members. Seven years into a project is an insane time to find out that numerous art assets are missing or corrupt, or that an earlier coder was using undocumented naming schemes, or any of the other bits of ridiculous development malpractice that have leaked out on Discord or Picarto streams.

Having a good project manager makes everyone's lives easier because it removes uncertainty and redundancy and keeps everyone to a schedule. My own job would be impossible if we didn't have an admin staff keeping everyone's docket up-to-date; I'd spend half my day organizing my calendar otherwise.

 

[OmniCatastrophe]

So wait wait wait... DC outright said nope to Odette+Eve? Really? In this game where there's so many forced harem-esque situations...? When he in-game hinted at something between them...? That's actually insanely dumb.

 

[tokuin]

I don't understand how this isn't considered abandoned yet. It's been almost a year since the last update and there is still so much content missing. I'm honestly surprised nobody has taken over with a remake at this point. The game has so much promise but the creator is just way too lazy. It's a damn shame. Hopefully modders will take up the charge and add to some of the unfinished events in the future.

 

[itsyeboii]

Yes, but a time lapse of 3 years to do this tech update is just ridiculous, They are coding 2d art in Ren'Py in a point and click game, to be honest this update should have been completed by now.

Totally, I'm not saying this to defend DC but just to put into perspective that it's a huge workload, regardless of it being 2D or Renpy. I obviously don't know how long the tech-update realistically should've taken but we've definitely been waiting too long.

 

[zenlimbo]

No. Every project needs someone to manage it. Even if it's one person doing it on their own, they need to manage their time. Because some jobs are more enjoyable than others. Perhaps you're an artist, then art is fun, but you might spend your time producing art that isn't useful. Or you enjoy coding, in which case you spend your time tweaking code - making it that bit more concise or whatever. A project manager, even if they are also the lead artist, lead coder, lead writer, whatever has the unenviable job of telling you to knock it off. Even if it's just timetabling your own time to say: "I need to stop this at this point and do this boring job instead."

That has never been the case in this game. No one tells DC to stop fucking about with backgrounds or wallpapers, and no one has ever told the coders to stop tweaking this or tell the poser (whatever the fuck that is) to name the files in a human readable way.

In other words this game has never been properly project managed and it fucking shows and has since the beginning. DC needs to be a project manager but he's either unable or unwilling. That is the problem when thousands or dollars are being thrown his way; not that he's a bad artist or the coders are bad. They are incompetent and a portion of that $60k a month should have gone to someone who is competent who can manage the project and that it didn't happen 2 years ago is forgivable. That it didn't happen a year ago when the tech update was already late is unforgivable. The team is either lazy, stupid, or greedy. Or a combination of all three because the time this update is taking is ridiculous. An honest project team would not have waited until 9 months overdue before producing CYA "updates". An honest project team would have paused payment when they were overdue. But then that would also require decent project management and an attitude other than contempt for their patrons.

Based

 

[atomicp]

Tbf who would watch a stream of someone coding?

Just being curious, actually.

 

[ogr blanc]

1 year? The tech-update has been under development for two and a half years and will apparently be completed in three years.

Maybe I misread (since English is not my mother tongue) but what do you mean by 1 year?

i meant since the last update.

 

[GoGoGorilla]

What even is the tech update that needs three years?

 

[Chili_Chale_Cholo]

So wait wait wait... DC outright said nope to Odette+Eve? Really? In this game where there's so many forced harem-esque situations...? When he in-game hinted at something between them...? That's actually insanely dumb.

Yeah, he was asked in a stream and he said it wasn't going to happen because "It wasn't in Eve's personality", and I mean he's probably right but like you mentioned this game is full of forced situations and besides it's strongly suggested that the scene was going to happen so it gets a little annoying.

 

[j4yj4m]

Seven years into a project is an insane time to find out that numerous art assets are missing or corrupt, or that an earlier coder was using undocumented naming schemes, or any of the other bits of ridiculous development malpractice that have leaked out on Discord or Picarto streams.

Most of this has been well known. Some people here really seem to forget that DC started this whole game to teach himself coding and that all of the coding that was done in the first year(s), was done by someone who happened to be part of DC's early chats. Comparing that to any kind of professional work ist really besides the point.
Next to that people tend to forget, that DC struggled with the thought of a tech update before this one happened and that Patreons did vote against it, the first time he polled it. Which, by the way, was celebrated by most of the people who already screamed "he's milking" back then...

Having a good project manager makes everyone's lives easier because it removes uncertainty and redundancy and keeps everyone to a schedule. My own job would be impossible if we didn't have an admin staff keeping everyone's docket up-to-date; I'd spend half my day organizing my calendar otherwise.

I think it's important to differentiate between working in larger teams/companies and working in small teams. You don't need a manager in a semi well orgranized team of 3 people who are on good terms. You need someone who takes decisions and who holds people accountable and that's really it. That's clearly DC's job.

If DC didn't manage to make Dogeek work properly (I've seen them "argue" a few times in chat/stream), you think some random hired manager would have managed that? Nah. Again, you can't compare indie development to some kind of professional work environment - it'll never be the same.

What DC should have done, is getting a consultant/dev/coder who knows how to run large(ish) coding projects and who knows how to work with python/renpy, so there'd be workable roadmap for the tech update and he should have hired someone to prepare a lof of the stuff that's causing problems now, while they were still working on the main story. But that's something very different from having a manager in general.

The tech update isn't struggling because someone isn't keeping his deadlines or doesn't do what he's supposed to do, but because they fundementally, massively missjudged the work that had to be done before they started and had to figure all of that out while they had were already working.

Just to add:
I don't think DC personally cares thaaaaat much about all of that anyway. And we shouldn't either, to be honest. As long as he's creating assets for the game, the content will ultimately be released. If the tech update had been on time, there's a good chance we had never gotten some of these pre-tech scenes, for example.

After all, the only thing that's hurt by this delay is his financial bottom line and that's really only his personal problem.