Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5605] [Kompas Productions]

[boblicticious]

You realize I'm enjoying this little tete a tete (though in public). It is obvious to see you took one simple analogy and ramped it up with exaggeration to "not make any assertion" to your claim.
You've not made any points. You have only talked in circles and used hyperbole and false memories and inaccuracies.

I wouldn't keep engaging if I weren't enjoying it too. Are you legitimately trying to suggest that you think your initial analogy with the bandaid is an objective representation of the significance of the development speed?

 

[boblicticious]

Just to add some more fuel to this majestic dumpster fire : tech build started in March 2021. In what way, shape or form can any1 claim the tracker has been anything close to "60% for more than year" when we barely made it past that time mark 3 weeks ago ? Unless you wanna go back further into wack-zone and claim it was for the last part of main route, which in turn is still wrong since they were doing bugtesting and the tracker was around 99% for about a month

I see your point. I should have done more investigating before I pulled out values based on memory. The last version I have installed is .20.5 that's from 7/2020. After that point the discussion came up that a tech update including the aspect ratio change was forthcoming. That's when I decided to stop playing the game until the tech update was out with the better aspect ratio. My mistake was assuming that they started on it directly after .20.5 since I've been mostly ignoring STS until the release of the tech update. It's likely that the time I viewed the progress tracker over a year ago and saw it in the high 60's was for a version before they started on the tech update.

 

[Count Morado]

The point is, the discussion has moved in a direction I wasn't trying to take it. My point was to specifically point out how irrelevant some arguments were, and the responses to me have been to try to disprove what I already explicitly said I wasn't asserting. If you want to go back to my initial couple of posts and directly address my arguments against one or two posts trying to defend the developer's honor, we can probably have a more productive discussion... but insofar as defending a position of the "milking scamlord" theory being real, that was never my intention. I can see scrolling back that many of you have been tirelessly arguing against the idea for months. And I can understand why someone coming in here with any kind of post coming accross as support for that viewpoint is going to twang that nerve. But I'm not the Karen you are looking for.

This discussion has only moved because you have changed the target - now we're back to the beginning:
No one was defending the developer's honor.

• In your assertion that you aren't making the claim, but you can see how others could - you are lending credence and credibility to a claim which has no evidence to support it.
• At the same time, you were stating that anyone contradicting the claim had no basis.
• To whit, I reminded you that it is not the people who contradict who have the burden of proof but, rather, the ones making the initial claim.
• You then proceded in your 'nonassertion' to say you could see their case because your memory shows the progress chart has been stuck in the high 60% for a year. -- though still swearing you're not making the claim, but seeing how others could take it that way.
• I showed at least one link (and one miscopied) to show your 60% memory was in err.
• You doubled down you weren't making that assertion, but could see how others could about milking.
• I stated that using that kind of language is akin to making an accusation of domestic violence without any proof except for a wife wearing a bandaid (I said not where - you then created a laceration on the senator's hand and a blackeye on the wife, using hyperbole to continue your "nonassertion").
• In response I linked to proof for December, October, August, and July that showed your memory was wrong.
• Instead of saying you were mistaken, you continued your belief that progress is slower than shown and again you weren't making any assertion of milking, but could see how others could see it as so.

Now you're trying to make the claim the change in direction and derail of the topic wasn't yours. But you can plainly see, you had the wheel, but may not have been keeping an eye on where you were going.

And follow that with your misunderstanding of what the analogy was. It's not toward the developer's progress - it was toward your continued statement that while you make no assertion that the developer is milking, you see how others could see it so. When no one making that claim can show any evidence to back that claim - which is their burden of proof. If you need help, here's the diagram of the two thoughts:

You: I'm not asserting that milking is taking place,
Me: I'm not saying the senator beats his wife,

You: just that I can see why some people suspect that it is.
Me: I'm just saying I saw his wife wearing a bandaid.

It's a pretty straightforward comparison. If you only stated your first phrase, it would be obvious of your intent. But by adding the second clause, you are making a completely different statement.

 

[SCynic]

The biggest issue I can see regarding people's opinion (and it IS opinion, not verifiable fact) that there is "milking" going on is that people seem to believe that the tasks involved are all simple, easily formatted and taken care of, and form a nice, neat and most importantly, DIRECT progression when it comes to reporting how far along they are. They really aren't taking into account that fixing someone else's work is ALWAYS a pain in the ass, more complex and difficult that you believe it is going to be, and takes longer than you assume before you actually get into it.

It's strange that so many people overlook this, especially considering that most people have had to do this at work or some other place. You gotta figure what is where and why, and almost read the mind and thought processes of the person who came before you. "Why the FUCK did he put THIS over HERE!?" is a sentence that you will ALWAYS hear when handling this sort of project.

Then, apply this to coding. It might be a specific coding language, but no two coders write the same, or patch bugs the same. Compare it to speaking english. No two speakers will EVER say the same sentence the same way. You have accent, regional dialects, slang, syntax and sentence structure, not to mention one person may just have a better understanding of the language. I am NOT surprised its taking this long, and I think progress has actually been fairly quick.

Who;s to say the new coder has had situations where they finish a bunch, move on and see some fuckery, and have to GO BACK and adjust things. But then again, you cant count on people in this thread to READ the first page, full of faqs and links to answers to most any question they might have. Expecting them to use their brains regarding the situation is just asking for disappointment.

 

[Omnikuken]

Expecting about 10 pages to get nuked in the coming minutes

 

[Count Morado]

Expecting about 10 pages to get nuked in the coming minutes

I was just thinking that myself!
(but I did update my FAQ to include what progress bar percentages I now know - oh and the reason why it went down to 69% from 70% is because *drumroll* they added one more writing task: total for the progress went from 301 to 302 -- just what we had suspected)

 

[boblicticious]

This discussion has only moved because you have changed the target - now we're back to the beginning:
No one was defending the developer's honor.

• In your assertion that you aren't making the claim, but you can see how others could - you are lending credence and credibility to a claim which has no evidence to support it.
• At the same time, you were stating that anyone contradicting the claim had no basis.
• To whit, I reminded you that it is not the people who contradict who have the burden of proof but, rather, the ones making the initial claim.
• You then proceded in your 'nonassertion' to say you could see their case because your memory shows the progress chart has been stuck in the high 60% for a year. -- though still swearing you're not making the claim, but seeing how others could take it that way.
• I showed at least one link (and one miscopied) to show your 60% memory was in err.
• You doubled down you weren't making that assertion, but could see how others could about milking.
• I stated that using that kind of language is akin to making an accusation of domestic violence without any proof except for a wife wearing a bandaid (I said not where - you then created a laceration on the senator's hand and a blackeye on the wife, using hyperbole to continue your "nonassertion").
• In response I linked to proof for December, October, August, and July that showed your memory was wrong.
• Instead of saying you were mistaken, you continued your belief that progress is slower than shown and again you weren't making any assertion of milking, but could see how others could see it as so.

Now you're trying to make the claim the change in direction and derail of the topic wasn't yours. But you can plainly see, you had the wheel, but may not have been keeping an eye on where you were going.

And follow that with your misunderstanding of what the analogy was. It's not toward the developer's progress - it was toward your continued statement that while you make no assertion that the developer is milking, you see how others could see it so. When no one making that claim can show any evidence to back that claim - which is their burden of proof. If you need help, here's the diagram of the two thoughts:

You: I'm not asserting that milking is taking place,
Me: I'm not saying the senator beats his wife,

You: just that I can see why some people suspect that it is.
Me: I'm just saying I saw his wife wearing a bandaid.

It's a pretty straightforward comparison. If you only stated your first phrase, it would be obvious of your intent. But by adding the second clause, you are making a completely different statement.

Well I've already discovered and admintted that I was wrong about the versioning. It obviously goes a long way to change my perspective of the development speed. But I do still stand by my evaluation of the analogy. Your analogy was designed to make it sound absurd that I could see why some people suspect the developer, comparing it to assuming that a woman wearing a bandaid must be suffering domestic abuse. But if I truly believed at the time I posted it that the progress had only gone up 5% in over a year, would you honestly find it as absurd that I can see why some people suspect foul play as someone assuming a lady wearing a bandaid must be getting abused at home?

 

[Count Morado]

Well I've already discovered and admintted that I was wrong about the versioning. It obviously goes a long way to change my perspective of the development speed. But I do still stand by my evaluation of the analogy. Your analogy was designed to make it sound absurd that I could see why some people suspect the developer, comparing it to assuming that a woman wearing a bandaid must be suffering domestic abuse. But if I truly believed at the time I posted it that the progress had only gone up 5% in over a year, would you honestly find it as absurd that I can see why some people suspect foul play as someone assuming a lady wearing a bandaid must be getting abused at home?

Yes, I do find it absurd - because neither assumptions utilize any actual bases of facts. They both are making assumptions without actually looking into the evidence, first. And that's the whole point. People aren't actually looking at facts, but making assertions without support. A bandaid is no evidence of anything (again, not stated where - and you never asked, you assumed because it is mentioned that it had merit). A memory is no evidence of anything. Memories fade and can be faulty.

Now, If I had stated I saw the bandaid on her pinky - would that added bit of information change your perspective? Of course it would. Absent that data - you made assumptions which more likely, than not, are invalid. That's why the burden of proof on claims is on the person making them. There is no evidence to back up the claims by people who argue the developer milks. To say "I can see how they think it so" only fills their mind that they are right (and moves those on the fence to an indefensible, yet obstinate, position).

But I do appreciate you state you do see you were mistaken on the progress bar. Thank you.

 

[boblicticious]

Yes, I do find it absurd - because neither assumptions utilize any actual bases of facts. They both are making assumptions without actually looking into the evidence, first. And that's the whole point. People aren't actually looking at facts, but making assertions without support. A bandaid is no evidence of anything (again, not stated where - and you never asked, you assumed because it is mentioned that it had merit). A memory is no evidence of anything. Memories fade and can be faulty.

Now, If I had stated I saw the bandaid on her pinky - would that added bit of information change your perspective? Of course it would. Absent that data - you made assumptions which more likely, than not, are invalid. That's why the burden of proof on claims is on the person making them. There is no evidence to back up the claims by people who argue the developer milks. To say "I can see how they think it so" only fills their mind that they are right (and moves those on the fence to an indefensible, yet obstinate, position).

But I do appreciate you state you do see you were mistaken on the progress bar. Thank you.

I'm eating crow for the mistake I made, but looking back at my posts I think I was being fairly reasonable.

 

[poopfartshitcum]

cmon man, dc milkers vs defenders again cmon yall there's no point just let the other person think what they think

 

[poopfartshitcum]

i honestly think dc made a bad call pushing for the tech update, i think he underestimated how much time it would take ( like he does with every update, but way worse this time ), should have saved it for until the game was nearly complete or atleast better planned and communicated it with his team and with the audience

 

[Count Morado]

cmon man, dc milkers vs defenders again cmon yall there's no point just let the other person think what they think

i honestly think dc made a bad call pushing for the tech update, i think he underestimated how much time it would take ( like he does with every update, but way worse this time ), should have saved it for until the game was nearly complete or atleast better planned and communicated it with his team and with the audience

 

[saibakira]

View attachment 1754356

Fun facts: Count Morado is DC having a mental breakdown

 

[shakytube]

Erik really annoys the shit out of me. He's just straight up annoying and creepy. I wish there was another "best friend" character instead of him for MC.

 

[PhoenixChampion]

A search for the word "patch" with the results sorted in order of date brings up a post that is listed the third (now fourth with this one added) on the first page of the results (also, 14th (now 15th) result on the first page shows same question you're asking - going there, one of the next 2 posts below it gives you the answer)

A search for the word "incest" shows similar - with the two I referenced in nearly the same position. So does "20.5" and "20.12"

Mainly because I post the FAQ I created about every other page because people don't have the patience to use the search box in the upper right hand corner of any page. Just think, if you'd done that - you'd have had the answer 14 minutes ago, but you didn't have the patience. But you did have the patience to wait for the answer.

Thank you for at least directing me to the answer. Grab something to eat and get sleep, you sound very cranky.

Also I have bad internet, so trying to do anything while downloading something period will cause my internet to CHUG, so I tend to start downloading, then leave that going overnight or play something else. So post the question, then start downloading off Mega (Which took three hours in fact), and then I went to bed while it was downloading hoping someone would be kind enough to answer the question and that my internet wouldn't cancel my download by getting too weak.

And I did not think to use the search function because the only Search option I've ever bothered to find on this site is the main search function and naturally I think 'Hmm, searching for a single word on a whole site is probably not very efficient because a lot of people might be talking about patches to other games.'

 

[Stil996]

Thank you for at least directing me to the answer. Grab something to eat and get sleep, you sound very cranky.

Also I have bad internet, so trying to do anything while downloading something period will cause my internet to CHUG, so I tend to start downloading, then leave that going overnight or play something else. So post the question, then start downloading off Mega (Which took three hours in fact), and then I went to bed while it was downloading hoping someone would be kind enough to answer the question and that my internet wouldn't cancel my download by getting too weak.

And I did not think to use the search function because the only Search option I've ever bothered to find on this site is the main search function and naturally I think 'Hmm, searching for a single word on a whole site is probably not very efficient because a lot of people might be talking about patches to other games.'

The search function allows you to choose what part of the site to search, Count Morado sounds cranky because this is a question that gets asked alot, often multiple times on a single page. after a while it just wears on you

Spoiler: Search Box Magic

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[Stil996]

Erik really annoys the shit out of me. He's just straight up annoying and creepy. I wish there was another "best friend" character instead of him for MC.

Leave my Buddy alone, besides it's practically law that the MC's BFF has to be someone who can't possibly steal the MC's girls, failure often results in the NTR Police wailing onto the scene demanding that the MC is the only one with a sex life.

 

[Omnikuken]

Lel, Morado sounds cranky. This is pure comedy gold

 

[Devronman]

Leave my Buddy alone, besides it's practically law that the MC's BFF has to be someone who can't possibly steal the MC's girls, failure often results in the NTR Police wailing onto the scene demanding that the MC is the only one with a sex life.

Besides sometimes being a bit of a loser, Erik's totally fine as a buddy. Backs you up when you need him, isn't stupid or overly goofy and just straight up wants the best for you. That's why I never go for his prospective GF in that one route, guy deserves a proper relationship for all the help he gives you.

 

[APoc_]

Besides sometimes being a bit of a loser, Erik's totally fine as a buddy. Backs you up when you need him, isn't stupid or overly goofy and just straight up wants the best for you. That's why I never go for his prospective GF in that one route, guy deserves a proper relationship for all the help he gives you.

I watched all of June's scene's but in the end I chose to let Erik have her too. There are some annoying asspects to his character but then again who doesn't annoy a person at some point as far as friends go he is a pretty good one.