VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.99] [WeirdWorld]

[Dark479]

I'm sorry, could you point to the lines that made you think so? From Dead End 43 we get that Malik is "Completed, but kept whole by faith.", Henri is "Ascendant, yet still unborn." and Bernhardt is "Old, but somehow... Unbound". Where do you get that they've been chosen by something?

Dead end 42 is what you need to see, not 43. When the MC evolves with the eye he realizes what the three main HERO agents are and he is stunned how they were allowed to exist. And there is an image of the three entities they are each bonded with...each matching the aura/ability of each of the three. Green crackling sphere pertaining to Bernhardt, the purple energy sphere of Henrick, and fire sphere of Malik. The only 3 NPCs that we know to have gotten their 5th evolution naturally are all chosen.

 

[zandalari]

Dead end 42 is what you need to see, not 43. When the MC evolves with the eye he realizes what the three main HERO agents are and he is stunned how they were allowed to exist. And there is an image of the three entities they are each bonded with...each matching the aura/ability of each of the three. Green crackling sphere pertaining to Bernhardt, the purple energy sphere of Henrick, and fire sphere of Malik. The only 3 NPCs that we know to have gotten their 5th evolution naturally are all chosen.

They are not bonded to anything... The spheres are merely representations of them so the player knows who the MC is talking about.

Nor are they chosen by anything. They are simply super strong freaks of nature. There is no proof that they are anything else.

 

[AgumenticR]

Dead end 42 is what you need to see, not 43. When the MC evolves with the eye he realizes what the three main HERO agents are and he is stunned how they were allowed to exist. And there is an image of the three entities they are each bonded with...each matching the aura/ability of each of the three. Green crackling sphere pertaining to Bernhardt, the purple energy sphere of Henrick, and fire sphere of Malik. The only 3 NPCs that we know to have gotten their 5th evolution naturally are all chosen.

Yes, that's the Dead End 43. As can be seen from the image, only Henri is what you'd call "doubled-up", with Bernhardt being all wind and Malik being all fire. That's just their powers, nothing indicating it's something that choose them.

 

[Gtdead]

I am not gonna lie, that seems like a stretch on several points.
1) Though Henri posses the strength of a long forgotten deity, it's "born anew". Could it not mean that he simply fulfilled the same conditions for getting that power, without being chosen by anything conscious?
2) Why the assumption that the only way to equal the aforementioned strength is by being chosen by something? Couldn't Bernhardt and maybe Malik simply be gigachads whose strength grew to equal gods by their own efforts?

All in all, that seems like a fair theory, but I wouldn't say it's "definitely" true.

Won't disagree. Personally I don't care about the idea of "Chosen" that much. It seems like a lose title anyway. For example Aos is the Chosen of Ether, and Ether wants Alice to kill him and inherit Space. It's not like being a "Chosen" means much in the grand scheme of things, at least as far as we've seen. At most it may have to do with getting some gift from your patron (like Valravn), getting some extra knowledge (like Ella? not sure about this but there are indications) etc.

Thing is, that these "gifts" are the most tangible things we have in order to speculate on what being a "Chosen" means and that's thin anyway. So basically, unless we gain some new info, the big Trio being gifted power above their "station" is as good as any.

For your points specifically,
1) Henri is the inheritor of the same power that the king of Seahumans possessed. This is probably what the "born anew" was referring to, in a sense of "The power died with the Seahuman king, but it's born anew with Henri". Funny thing is that the eye calls him "Ascendant, yet still unborn". Also don't forget that Henri literally reached level 5 in a week, so expecting him to do much to "attain" this power is probably out of the question.

2) The lore of the game so far supports that being turned by a stronger monster makes you a stronger Superhuman. The only one who objects to this is Nico and truthfully, not only she is the dumbest character in the game, but her examples don't really work. For example she talks about training being the reason she is the best, but she doesn't even need more power to shoot someone to space than she did at level 3. From there on, there's Syla who says that lesser spawn can be dangerous because their evolutions may cook up some overpowered ability.

 

[Dark479]

Yes, that's the Dead End 43. As can be seen from the image, only Henri is what you'd call "doubled-up", with Bernhardt being all wind and Malik being all fire. That's just their powers, nothing indicating it's something that choose them.

They are not bonded to anything... The spheres are merely representations of them so the player knows who the MC is talking about.

Nor are they chosen by anything. They are simply super strong freaks of nature. There is no proof that they are anything else.

Those are not just their powers...those are clearly stated to be aberrations...the entities those powers came from...similar to the MC's eye. Nameless entities, unknown and not well understood but separate:

 

[zandalari]

Those are not just their powers...those are clearly stated to be aberrations...the entities those powers came from...similar to the MC's eye. Nameless entities, unknown and not well understood but separate: View attachment 3800520

I'm afraid you have missed the entire point of the scene. The key is in the descriptions..

"Completed, but kept whole by faith."
"Ascendant, yet still unborn."
"Old, but somehow unbound."

There is only ONE explanation for why they are the way the are that is supported by actual lore and not cope or reaching so far that your joints pop out.

When the spawn reach a certain power level, they ascend to the higher plane/dimension. We KNOW this for a fact because the Towers exist. One in the Dream City where "humanity ascended" and a whole host of them in the Dark World where the corrupt ascend. Same place that scared the MC shitless and is close to the divine with Apostles occasionally walking around.

The Trio have resisted the calls to ascend and thus have kept on accumulating absolutely stupid amounts of power and breaking the balance. They are the equivalent of 30 year olds sitting in grade school because they refuse to take their papers and get the hell out. Anything about "bonding" and "being chosen" has exactly 0 proof and the equivalent of "god did it lol".

 

[Dark479]

There is only ONE explanation for why they are the way the are that is supported by actual lore and not cope or reaching so far that your joints pop out.

This seems like an overly hostile response imo. At any rate the fact the ONLY the natural level 5s are like this, not a single one of the serum evolved 5s makes it abundantly clear that this is not something normal to 5th evolutions and those are not just powers obtained randomly...especially not for superhumans made by weak/common monsters. Those are not powers that normally come from evolution. An the fact that they are outright called aberrations is more than enough.

 

[Sayajin2205]

This seems like an overly hostile response imo. At any rate the fact the ONLY the natural level 5s are like this, not a single one of the serum evolved 5s makes it abundantly clear that this is not something normal to 5th evolutions and those are not just powers obtained randomly...especially not for superhumans made by weak/common monsters. Those are not powers that normally come from evolution. An the fact that they are outright called aberrations is more than enough.

Deus was called another aberrant by the eye during the dead end and seeing how powerful he is as well at level 4 he too seems like the build different type like the big three of Hero.

 

[Gtdead]

I'm afraid you have missed the entire point of the scene. The key is in the descriptions..

"Completed, but kept whole by faith."
"Ascendant, yet still unborn."
"Old, but somehow unbound."

There is only ONE explanation for why they are the way the are that is supported by actual lore and not cope or reaching so far that your joints pop out.

When the spawn reach a certain power level, they ascend to the higher plane/dimension. We KNOW this for a fact because the Towers exist. One in the Dream City where "humanity ascended" and a whole host of them in the Dark World where the corrupt ascend. Same place that scared the MC shitless and is close to the divine with Apostles occasionally walking around.

The Trio have resisted the calls to ascend and thus have kept on accumulating absolutely stupid amounts of power and breaking the balance. They are the equivalent of 30 year olds sitting in grade school because they refuse to take their papers and get the hell out. Anything about "bonding" and "being chosen" has exactly 0 proof and the equivalent of "god did it lol".

This interpretation doesn't seem correct to me although it has some merit. The towers are where those with high corruption ascent, according to the Vestige. This doesn't mean that everyone is supposed to do the same thing. For all we know, it's possible that there haven't even been level 5 Seahumans for the Vestige to know about except for their King, so those who ascended were just corrupted to the core. This word "ascended" can also be used to just describe a normal evolution, for example:
Valravn "Thou'st felt it, hast thou not? As thou ascends, a link inside thee, connecting to... something else, something beyond this realm."

Also remember that the big Trio was abnormally strong even before level 5, according to Henri. Which may mean that fullfilling their reuirements and reaching level 5 wasn't the catalyst for their circumstances.

Ella also seems abnormally strong. She was far stronger than her peers, she evolved quickly, battled Valravn as a level 4 and Nico couldn't really do anything to her despite being a level 5 for longer and training like nobody's business.

 

[Dark479]

Deus was called another aberrant by the eye during the dead end and seeing how powerful he is as well at level 4 he too seems like the build different type like the big three of Hero.

Right...maybe he hides it better or the aberration/origin that chose him isn't active yet similar to the MC.

 

[zandalari]

This seems like an overly hostile response imo. At any rate the fact the ONLY the natural level 5s are like this, not a single one of the serum evolved 5s makes it abundantly clear that this is not something normal to 5th evolutions and those are not just powers obtained randomly...especially not for superhumans made by weak/common. Those are not powers that normally come from evolution. An the fact that they are outright called aberrations is more than enough.

Has it not occurred to you that serum-assisted evolutions are failed evolutions? It has been said time and time again by everyone from Ella to Xanthe that there is a spiritual component to monsters that cannot be studied or tamed. The last bits with Syla bring that home with the force of a sledgehammer. I have no doubts that the requirements for MC's 5th evolution will come when he is ready for it, has fully explored all the paths and established contact with whoever he needs to, be that his monster parent or perhaps other Apostles. Without that you're a failure forever locked from the true heights of power. Even Ella couldn't do it.

Where's my proof? The fact that the only natural 5's are so strong and everyone else can't even touch them.

This interpretation doesn't seem correct to me although it has some merit. The towers are where those with high corruption ascent, according to the Vestige. This doesn't mean that everyone is supposed to do the same thing. For all we know, it's possible that there haven't even been level 5 Seahumans for the Vestige to know about except for their King, so those who ascended were just corrupted to the core.

If they have ascended then there must a cutoff point for ascension. If corruption was the only requirement, then on what basis did "humanity" of the Dream City Tower ascend? I would think "power" being the main requirement makes the most sense, with a further split of corruption-humanity defining the location and perhaps what happens after ascension. But of course, you're free to think what you want. I prefer simplest explanations that don't require jumping through hoops.

 

[Gtdead]

If they have ascended then there must a cutoff point for ascension. If corruption was the only requirement, then on what basis did "humanity" of the Dream City Tower ascend? I would think "power" being the main requirement makes the most sense, with a further split of corruption-humanity defining the location and perhaps what happens after ascension. But of course, you're free to think what you want. I prefer simplest explanations that don't require jumping through hoops.

I editted my post to provide additional exposition. Also generalizing the "corruption" aspect the Vestige talks about is jumping through hoops too.

 

[Sayajin2205]

Brother Gtdead do you think when mc ascends to level 4 he will also join the built different squad as level 4 might finally be the place where mc makes leaps and bounds of progress due to it being the limit breaker stage and all.I already saw the post about what you think level 4 will get and it was a beautiful post but what's you prediction on a simpler question like this.

 

[Ddlc]

They were definitely holding back and not just because mom said it, Devana herself admitted that she was just fucking around and was about to summon a monster much more dangerous than before if not for Shen stopping her.

And I don't quite understand what do you mean by harder time, as through out the whole fight the only successful damage MC inflicted on the twin is only due to element of surprise, as the twin though Shen had subdued MC and were ill prepared for his sudden retaliation, it's noting more than a lucky shot really.

If they were to go all out from the start, Devana will summon her doggy that was dangerous even for MC for a 3v1, Evander will start using name moves like when he was against Met, and if the worst come to it one of them can combine both of their power to utilize moves far above that of a normal lv 3 caliber. Fighting the twin alone is an extremely dangerous endeavor even for MC and definitely not as easy as some of the people here might think.

In this updated even the MC admit that the smarter approach of fighting them will be having another equally powerful ally to fight them simultaneously.

I think they were holding back, but what i said it's that they weren't holding back that much, they were more overconfident than anything else, Evander's first move is to obliterate Mc in his lliquid form and after his second hit Devana comments on how most people can't even take a single hit, how is this the most efficient way to capture Mc ?, Devana would be better in containing him summoning something to trap him inside and Shen could make him unconscious at any moment, but what they do instead ? Fight him as if they could end the fight at any moment probably because Shen wanted to know how they would do against Ella's chosen, and he just keeps coming back.
Devana start to take it more seriously after she is stabbed in the gut but her summons barely do anything to harm Mc, Evander keeps hitting and cleaving through Mc just to be sent flying again and again and Mc keeps coming back.
Shen uses his trick, one that should by all means end things immediatly, and Mc comes back. By this point it's officially a mess.
Now back to what i said, i don't think they would be able to secure the kill even if they wanted whitout Shen, not that Mc would win, i don't think he could, and that's the point, even if they brought their full power i think Mc could survive, not by winning but by running the fuck out, he just didn't do that because they would find Amber/Liz.

 

[zandalari]

I editted my post to provide additional exposition. Also generalizing the "corruption" aspect the Vestige talks about is jumping through hoops too.

Is them being stronger than normal before evo 5 relevant to anything? As you said, Ella couldn't do it, sooo...

 

[Gtdead]

Is them being stronger than normal before evo 5 relevant to anything? As you said, Ella couldn't do it, sooo...

You have 2 superhumans of similar circumstances, and one is so much more powerful that there is no contest, not just in skill but also in power pool. What's the difference between them?

MC is one such individual. He gains power significantly faster than anyone else.
2 months to surpass Laurie (2 years)
1 year to reach half Cole's power (7 years)
And Ella expects MC to surpass her shortly, which should be impossible considering that she is an Apostlespawn and a level 5 with 7 years of experience.

Is it so hard to imagine that sub-level5s that are abnormally strong also gain their powers from unique circumstances? Like connections to gods?
And if that's the case, it means that reaching level 5 is not the catalyst for this connection as it was always there to begin with.

Brother Gtdead do you think when mc ascends to level 4 he will also join the built different squad as level 4 might finally be the place where mc makes leaps and bounds of progress due to it being the limit breaker stage and all.I already saw the post about what you think level 4 will get and it was a beautiful post but what's you prediction on a simpler question like this.

Well, just the fact that evolutions increase power exponentially is enough to make him look like making leaps and bounds of progress. This is the issue with exponentials in general, the lower range being significantly smaller than the upper range.

Generally speaking, I expect level 4 MC to surpass most conventional entities, like the weaker level 5s and S ranks. It may not happen immediately but I doubt it'll take more than a couple of months, especially if he gets to have another big training montage.

From there on, I think level 5 MC will become as strong as the Captains from the get go. It will become an issue of "my god is stronger than yours". Let the crusades commence.

 

[zandalari]

You have 2 superhumans of similar circumstances, and one is so much more powerful that there is no contest, not just in skill but also in power pool. What's the difference between them?

MC is one such individual. He gains power significantly faster than anyone else.
2 months to surpass Laurie (2 years)
1 year to reach half Cole's power (7 years)
And Ella expects MC to surpass her shortly, which should be impossible considering that she is an Apostlespawn and a level 5 with 7 years of experience.

Is it so hard to imagine that sub-level5s that are abnormally strong also gain their powers from unique circumstances? Like connections to gods?
And if that's the case, it means that reaching level 5 is not the catalyst for this connection as it was always there to begin with.

Okay I'm going to assume a few things here. 1) With gods you mean Apostles. 2) This connection to them is in some way practical and the Apostles and the Spawn are aware of each other and actively do shit together. 3) This connection to them rises with corruption, since you can't even understand monster speech at low levels. You're gonna have a pretty hard time explaining Ella, Nyx and Malik.

Malik is a nat 5 and seemingly as human as they get in his attitude and everything. Probably the sole reason why he's still with us. Nyx is corrupt as fuck and had to use the serum. Ella is both pretty corrupt and abnormally close to the Apostles in every way imaginable. Still couldn't get to 5. Hell, Bernhard had to be told beings of the imperfect Eye's caliber exist by Xanthe. Dude seems genuinely unaware of Apostles or anything higher.

Perhaps it's just that some people adapted to monsterization better than others and that's all there is to it, no mystical connections needed?

 

[sexoffended]

Wasn't it said by Xanthe or someone that Henri's experience was used to assist Malik and Bernhardt with final evolution?
Henri is probably that natural chimera with double the power. "Ascendant, yet unborn"? Vortex of power he's transformed half the time he's dreaming? Absorbed twin. Power of a forgotten deity? Outer twin or something else responsible for twin magic.
Dude probably managed to conquer some Vestiges to gather necessary things for those two to prepare for ascention.

 

[Gtdead]

Okay I'm going to assume a few things here. 1) With gods you mean Apostles. 2) This connection to them is in some way practical and the Apostles and the Spawn are aware of each other and actively do shit together. 3) This connection to them rises with corruption, since you can't even understand monster speech at low levels. You're gonna have a pretty hard time explaining Ella, Nyx and Malik.

Malik is a nat 5 and seemingly as human as they get in his attitude and everything. Probably the sole reason why he's still with us. Nyx is corrupt as fuck and had to use the serum. Ella is both pretty corrupt and abnormally close to the Apostles in every way imaginable. Still couldn't get to 5. Hell, Bernhard had to be told beings of the imperfect Eye's caliber exist by Xanthe. Dude seems genuinely unaware of Apostles or anything higher.

Perhaps it's just that some people adapted to monsterization better than others and that's all there is to it, no mystical connections needed?

I wanted to tackle this in a more broader sense but it was going to be huge, so I'll just answer your points.

The word "connection" has been used under many circumstances. It happens during evolution (Valravn), it allows transfer of power from the planes (Eye during dead end), it allows communication between entities (Originator to spawn, Dreamer to dreamer) and it allows using mental abilities at range (routed through the inner planes). Additionally the level of this connection is kind of measurable, can be somewhat affected by corruption and spawn possessing multiple traits have more of it.

By gods I mean every divine entity, including Apostles, Arbiters, Great Ocean, Henri's forgotten god, the Tentacle thing in the monster world. So far we've seen connections to Arbiters (MC) and Apostles (MC, Michael, Alice). We may have also seen a connection to the Great Ocean (Amber).

Connections don't require corruption to happen. They exist since the spawn's infection. High corruption is described as making you more like a monster and it increases the frequency of the "voices". However there is absolutely no indication that it increases the potency of the effects that use these connections, like mental abilities and evolutions.

Ella, Malik and Nyx are all different.
Ella:
Meeting her after killing Jake, she says that level 5 is when the monsters know you are ready. Ella was deemed a failure by Memory when she completed her 3rd, so she will never be ready.

Nyx and the rest serum level 5s:
HERO agents avoid natural fifth evolutions because it's deemed dangerous. This is explained by Clark. So not only you have to actively look for some arbitrary requirements but they can kill you but completing them does not necessitate you will evolve, it just unlocks the potential.

Clark "There's a bunch of requirements leading up to it that'll probably kill you before your evolution even starts. Henri met his on accident, or so he tells me. Bernhardt and Malik sought them out afterwards."
Clark "But yeah, to answer your question, they didn't want us trying it. The evolving on its own is dangerous enough as it is, and even fulfilling those requirements don't guarantee it will happen or that you'll survive."


Malik (and the other 2):
Considering Ella's words that I mentioned earlier, the thing that makes the most sense to me is that these 3 have different (and easier) requirements. Consider Henri for a bit. If you are a forgotten god with a mangled line you can't be too picky about allowing your "Chosen" to claim your power. If on the other hand you are an Apostle, you have too many options. Even if your 100% purity Chosen fails, you can probably find a 90% purity one strong enough to do what you need to do.

And finally, the reason why I don't think they are just people who adapted better to "monsterization", is because the Eye recognises them and knows who they are. It's obvious that the Eye doesn't know who Malik is. He knows who the "Completed, but kept whole by faith" is and that he shouldn't be allowed to thrive or coexist with the other 2 for some reason.

When the Eye speaks to MC, he says this:
Unknown "I trust you'll figure it out soon enough."
Unknown "I mean, who can you trust, if not yourself?"

This points to the Eye considering itself and MC as the same entity and extends the same logic to the big trio.

 

[zandalari]

I wanted to tackle this in a more broader sense but it was going to be huge, so I'll just answer your points.

The word "connection" has been used under many circumstances. It happens during evolution (Valravn), it allows transfer of power from the planes (Eye during dead end), it allows communication between entities (Originator to spawn, Dreamer to dreamer) and it allows using mental abilities at range (routed through the inner planes). Additionally the level of this connection is kind of measurable, can be somewhat affected by corruption and spawn possessing multiple traits have more of it.

By gods I mean every divine entity, including Apostles, Arbiters, Great Ocean, Henri's forgotten god, the Tentacle thing in the monster world. So far we've seen connections to Arbiters (MC) and Apostles (MC, Michael, Alice). We may have also seen a connection to the Great Ocean (Amber).

Connections don't require corruption to happen. They exist since the spawn's infection. High corruption is described as making you more like a monster and it increases the frequency of the "voices". However there is absolutely no indication that it increases the potency of the effects that use these connections, like mental abilities and evolutions.

Ella, Malik and Nyx are all different.
Ella:
Meeting her after killing Jake, she says that level 5 is when the monsters know you are ready. Ella was deemed a failure by Memory when she completed her 3rd, so she will never be ready.

Nyx and the rest serum level 5s:
HERO agents avoid natural fifth evolutions because it's deemed dangerous. This is explained by Clark. So not only you have to actively look for some arbitrary requirements but they can kill you but completing them does not necessitate you will evolve, it just unlocks the potential.

Clark "There's a bunch of requirements leading up to it that'll probably kill you before your evolution even starts. Henri met his on accident, or so he tells me. Bernhardt and Malik sought them out afterwards."
Clark "But yeah, to answer your question, they didn't want us trying it. The evolving on its own is dangerous enough as it is, and even fulfilling those requirements don't guarantee it will happen or that you'll survive."


Malik (and the other 2):
Considering Ella's words that I mentioned earlier, the thing that makes the most sense to me is that these 3 have different (and easier) requirements. Consider Henri for a bit. If you are a forgotten god with a mangled line you can't be too picky about allowing your "Chosen" to claim your power. If on the other hand you are an Apostle, you have too many options. Even if your 100% purity Chosen fails, you can probably find a 90% purity one strong enough to do what you need to do.

And finally, the reason why I don't think they are just people who adapted better to "monsterization", is because the Eye recognises them and knows who they are. It's obvious that the Eye doesn't know who Malik is. He knows who the "Completed, but kept whole by faith" is and that he shouldn't be allowed to thrive or coexist with the other 2 for some reason.

When the Eye speaks to MC, he says this:
Unknown "I trust you'll figure it out soon enough."
Unknown "I mean, who can you trust, if not yourself?"

This points to the Eye considering itself and MC as the same entity and extends the same logic to the big trio.

This is just going in circles.

I particularly don't think the Eye knows shit, it just reads their auras/energy and makes deductions, but alright. Who are they bonded to?