Asherandai

Newbie
Sep 20, 2018
50
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Reading all this discussion is making me realise I've missed a shitton of stuff... I'm not even sure what some of the stuff people are talking about is... What's the "Arbiter" and how/why is it different to the Apostles?

*sigh* I'm gonna have to play through again now...
 

NameNo003

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Jan 26, 2023
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Gentlemans, I was promoted after the successful spy misson of S.I.N base to become personal agent for Mr Prime Minister Dexter Miliken, which was an opportunity to get a look at the Miliken family. Claudia was such a nice girl so today I bring you the most wealthy family of the entire world.

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Share your thoughts and opinions, I would love to see more and more of them since they feed my corruption. Who know when I reach the peak of it, what will happen? ;)
 

The Specter

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Jan 27, 2023
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Gentlemans, I was promoted after the successful spy misson of S.I.N base to become personal agent for Mr Prime Minister Dexter Miliken, which was an opportunity to get a look at the Miliken family. Claudia was such a nice girl so today I bring you the most wealthy family of the entire world.

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Share your thoughts and opinions, I would love to see more and more of them since they feed my corruption. Who know when I reach the peak of it, what will happen? ;)
Claudia is definitely the closest to her ingame sprite
 

devilsdetails

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Jun 18, 2018
149
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Gentlemans, I was promoted after the successful spy misson of S.I.N base to become personal agent for Mr Prime Minister Dexter Miliken, which was an opportunity to get a look at the Miliken family. Claudia was such a nice girl so today I bring you the most wealthy family of the entire world.

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Share your thoughts and opinions, I would love to see more and more of them since they feed my corruption. Who know when I reach the peak of it, what will happen? ;)
These look awesome! But I have no idea how you managed to make Tiffany look older than Dexter
 

necromater

Engaged Member
Aug 21, 2018
2,004
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Reading all this discussion is making me realise I've missed a shitton of stuff... I'm not even sure what some of the stuff people are talking about is... What's the "Arbiter" and how/why is it different to the Apostles?

*sigh* I'm gonna have to play through again now...
Just think is jhon wick high table but with monsters instead of a Group of Alarics XD. Boy cuckboy had few scenes but he made them shine and that finale was an opus of dark humor. :)
 
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ItzSyther

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Dec 3, 2018
1,726
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Gentlemans, I was promoted after the successful spy misson of S.I.N base to become personal agent for Mr Prime Minister Dexter Miliken, which was an opportunity to get a look at the Miliken family. Claudia was such a nice girl so today I bring you the most wealthy family of the entire world.

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Share your thoughts and opinions, I would love to see more and more of them since they feed my corruption. Who know when I reach the peak of it, what will happen? ;)
Goddddd damn does Claudia look beautiful! I also dig how dexter looks (bro's fit is clean).
 
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Ir0n Ma1den

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Jun 15, 2021
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1688416101989.png I love alexis new model, hope we will able to romance her and add her to our expending harem, her and Nicollete. I want MC to bring her cocky smug down.

Also love the universe, a cyberpunk one world govermant setting, adding monsters and superpowers its always a win.
 
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bloodaxis

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Sep 1, 2017
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I feel like that defeats he purpose of having a grandiose title for each Twin in the first place then.

There are Twins that DON'T really fit the overall vibe of each other, whether it be looks or abilities. Take the 1st & the 2nd; they don't look alike at all, the 2nd shows virtually no traits of the 1st and vise versa during our brief view of them. There's also the 7th & 8th, which are polar opposites in terms of powers, they should have literally no common compatibility whatsoever, even in their mannerisms (7th wants everything dead and dark, doubt it's creational double wants the same thing despite apparently having duplicate traits apparently).

I'll always die on the hill that the MC was DOUBLE injected by the 3rd and 4th. Cause it's not like the MC has JUST a portion of the alternative ability, he has damn near the EQUIVALENT mastery of it as much as the main one you pick. Not even the Twins show complete control over both abilities so why would it make sense to be able to inherit BOTH abilities from 1? It makes the 2nd COMPLETELY useless. Why have the Dark Lord if Light Queen can just be Dark Lord every Tuesday? Especially if they can pass on a power that isn't even their created purpose in the first place.

Eh sorry for this rant, guess it just rubs me the wrong way from a narrative perspective that only ONE of the Twins infected you instead of just having both, that way it's an actual team effort, and not just some luck of the draw "happen to have both" abilities to full mastery.
I agree with this for narrative reasons, which is why I think it's the connection to the origin that lets us have both powers, there's a reason they're called origin/teacher after all and it's likely to do with the fact that the power descends from them in a more direct way than just offspring inheriting it.
 

necromater

Engaged Member
Aug 21, 2018
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Brah that is wuxia shit right there XD even the names of the monster factions sounds like that i mean the océan of strength was it? That's a wuxia sect name right there lol.
 

Aristarkhos

Newbie
Jun 23, 2017
93
219
I'll always die on the hill that the MC was DOUBLE injected by the 3rd and 4th.
I am of the opinion that this is likely the reason MC was specifically injected.
A cocktail specifically made to give both traits in equal measure.
Monsters don't have to inject a victim to infect them.
They can use whatever medium for infection they like.

Alternatively, maybe their mental invasion- because both use telepathy on MC- infected MC with the Memory trait.
And the injection infected him with the Body trait. Functionally the same, a deliberate infection with both traits.
 
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weezal

Active Member
Jul 5, 2022
556
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I am of the opinion that this is likely the reason MC was specifically injected.
A cocktail specifically made to give both traits in equal measure.
Monsters don't have to inject a victim to infect them.
They can use whatever medium for infection they like.

Alternatively, maybe their mental invasion- because both use telepathy on MC- infected MC with the Memory trait.
And the injection infected him with the Body trait. Functionally the same, a deliberate infection with both traits.
I agree. MC was given that specific pill for a reason by Ella for a specific purpose. A purpose she couldn't fulfill. I suspect that before he was infected at the park he still wasn't entirely human. The descriptions of MC's mother imply she wasn't human, perhaps she was a monster who chose to live as a human and have a family. We know that a special few monsters are able to reproduce with humans so this could make the MC a hybrid or something similar. This might make him different to the other superhumans and allow him to fulfill the purpose Ella couldn't herself.
 

DrakoGhoul

Engaged Member
Jul 13, 2018
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I feel like that defeats he purpose of having a grandiose title for each Twin in the first place then.

There are Twins that DON'T really fit the overall vibe of each other, whether it be looks or abilities. Take the 1st & the 2nd; they don't look alike at all, the 2nd shows virtually no traits of the 1st and vise versa during our brief view of them. There's also the 7th & 8th, which are polar opposites in terms of powers, they should have literally no common compatibility whatsoever, even in their mannerisms (7th wants everything dead and dark, doubt it's creational double wants the same thing despite apparently having duplicate traits apparently).

I'll always die on the hill that the MC was DOUBLE injected by the 3rd and 4th. Cause it's not like the MC has JUST a portion of the alternative ability, he has damn near the EQUIVALENT mastery of it as much as the main one you pick. Not even the Twins show complete control over both abilities so why would it make sense to be able to inherit BOTH abilities from 1? It makes the 2nd COMPLETELY useless. Why have the Dark Lord if Light Queen can just be Dark Lord every Tuesday? Especially if they can pass on a power that isn't even their created purpose in the first place.

Eh sorry for this rant, guess it just rubs me the wrong way from a narrative perspective that only ONE of the Twins infected you instead of just having both, that way it's an actual team effort, and not just some luck of the draw "happen to have both" abilities to full mastery.
I'm not really understanding the problem here. How would the Apostle Twins sharing their twins ability defeat the purpose? They are born from the same source, the Arbiter. You know, the being that has the original trait of the twins combined? It's not even like they're experts with each other's ability. The 4th is great with her Memory Trait, for obvious reasons, and yet the 3rd sucked at it. Them being able to pass on their twin trait isn't even a big deal, going off of Ella's and Aglaecwif reaction. Also, what does the Apostle Twins appearance have to do with anything? There's nothing that says the twins have to look a like. Even in real life twins don't have to be identical. That seems like an odd point to try and make.

As for you dying on the hill, why would I care? You're allowed to do whatever you want, just like myself. Going with what's shown in game though, we see only one twin infect the MC. We see that one acknowledged by everyone that comments on it and only see that one during majority of the scenes that involve the parent showing up. The MC only refers to one as Mother or Father. Even in the scene with both of them. Aglaecwif also cosigns Ella about Jake being able to get Order, which requires the Power Trait from the 2nd, and we know he's only the spawn of the 1st.

There's also a huge flaw here and I'm surprised you didn't realize it. Why didn't Ella get the Memory Trait if "team work" is the only requirement? Was she unlucky? But according to you, there shouldn't be any luck involved. Ella expected the Memory Trait at multiple points and yet she failed. So is she just the spawn of the 3rd? But if that's the case why would she expect the Memory Trait if team work is what made the dream work? Or is she also the spawn of the 3rd and 4th? But then why didn't she get both if all it takes is "team work" from them? Why wouldn't they work together for Ella, who was also compatible but do it for the MC? Sound like luck does play a part and that the MC is special, regardless if you believed that both of them were required.

Hell, why not have more spawns with both traits if all it took was them working together and infecting the same person? So, pick your poison, I guess. Either Ella is only the spawn of the 3rd but she felt like she could get the 4th's trait, which contradicts you since she would know better than us and you said it doesn't work that way. Or she's the spawn of both like the MC but didn't get it regardless of them working together, which would still go against the notion that both infecting a single person gives both traits. Either way you go, it would contradict your own view on it since there's conditions for it all. You can always take option 3 and say Ella was just wrong but then you'll have to say that about a lot of things she said. Especially since she claimed to know more about monsters than any other human or superhuman in game.

Lastly, there's nothing in the story that, "narratively" contradicts getting both from one twin. Monsters pass on their "genes, traits and powers" via infection. It's already confirmed in game that the 3rd and 4th share their traits. If power and traits are passed on via infection then why wouldn't the 4th, who has the Memory Trait and a certain level of the Body Trait, pass on both, if they're compatible enough? Same with the 3rd, who we know has the Memory Trait but is bad at it. The MC having a perfect balance means nothing when his traits were at the very bottom of their growth. It's like saying a Novice Mage with fire and lightning spells is perfect compared to a Expert who has fire mastery with lower lightning spells. Of course he'd seem perfect when he's wielding low level spells currently.


Tldr: Basically, this is being needlessly over complicated when the game shows you plenty of reasons for it to be multiple ways. There really shouldn't be a hang up here besides ones own personal belief getting in the way.

My initial thought was that the 4th just changed MC's memory and made him think that she turned into a hot chick and blew him. But after killing Jake, it's obvious that the 4th can also shapeshift, since she takes a snakelike form to constrict Authority.

Deadend 3 also gives a clue, assuming that the darkness monster is indeed the 7th, that he has some light based power? The one that ultimately kills MC.So I think it's fair to assume that the numbered have both traits to a certain extend.

DrakoGhoul's theory of "cross" inheritance fits these clues,

I think that it's more complex than that and the theory needs to take into account the differences between human and monster physiology. Perhaps in time, through Deryl, we will learn more on the topic.

I do have an uneedlesssly complex theory on the matter, but I don't want to talk about it yet cause I haven't figured it out completely. However for that specific part it's fairly straightforward, even if I'm making some big assumptions.

1) We know that the Arbiter can "possess" the MC.
2) We also know that the Apostles, just like the Arbiter, can't manifest in the "human" plane.
3) We know that Apostles created monsterkind.
4) Lastly we know that Apostles use Avatars to do their business in the material plane, exactly like the Arbiter does with MC.

With these 4 clues, I think that the Avatars are monsters, and they are the children of the Apostles. Essentially the twins fucked each other or used whatever breeding method they have iat their disposal, to create monsters that they possessed.

Due to that, the Avatars do indeed have both powers, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Apostles themselves have both powers.
However, since these avatars carry both traits, it's possible to pass either or both, depending on the host's physiology.
It's not really a theory, to be frank. Ella already confirmed cross inheritance is a thing when she saw that the MC only got shapeshifting and said "I thought as much" even though you're a spawn of the 4th. Her and Aglaecwif thoughts on Jake and inheriting both traits lead to confirmation as well.

You don't really have to look at the 7th. Though I did point it out that he used Light to kill the MC as supporting evidence that the 8th is Light. All you would have to do is look at the 3rd in the beginning after trying the 4th. It's clear he tried to read the MC's Memory but couldn't get it to work without hurting the MC so he used his Devouring Tentacle instead. MC later retells it when talking to Alice and Clark about how he was turned.

The 7th having Light, in some portion, just proves that the Twins, even outside of the 3rd and 4th, share their traits. Even when they don't work together. Could it increase in potency if they did, or the likely hood of their spawn getting both traits? Possibly.

I am of the opinion that this is likely the reason MC was specifically injected.
A cocktail specifically made to give both traits in equal measure.
Monsters don't have to inject a victim to infect them.
They can use whatever medium for infection they like.

Alternatively, maybe their mental invasion- because both use telepathy on MC- infected MC with the Memory trait.
And the injection infected him with the Body trait. Functionally the same, a deliberate infection with both traits.
Interesting take. One I haven't really thought about, admittedly. That still would mean only one, potentially, infected the MC though. Even in that scene when they used their injection, you'll notice the color matches the color of themselves and not a mix of both. The 4th's liquid in her injection is pink, while the 3rd is bluish purple. If the purpose was to give both via that method, only one was required, since they did both and the twin didn't do the other.

If both injections had the same color or the opposite twin came and did it than I could see why one would think they both mixed theirs together. But in game, only one did both and the color matched the twin who did it which would prove only one had a hand in it, not both. If this method is accurate.



Anyway, that ends my ridiculously long post. You guys are going to have to suffer this wall of text because I didn't spoiler shit. :KEK:
 

DrakoGhoul

Engaged Member
Jul 13, 2018
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Gentlemans, I was promoted after the successful spy misson of S.I.N base to become personal agent for Mr Prime Minister Dexter Miliken, which was an opportunity to get a look at the Miliken family. Claudia was such a nice girl so today I bring you the most wealthy family of the entire world.

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Share your thoughts and opinions, I would love to see more and more of them since they feed my corruption. Who know when I reach the peak of it, what will happen? ;)
Damn, Tiffany is hot. I like Claudia as well. Dexter looks smooth but why does he look like he's their brother? He could use a bit of aging up. :KEK:
 

necromater

Engaged Member
Aug 21, 2018
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I'm not really understanding the problem here. How would the Apostle Twins sharing their twins ability defeat the purpose? They are born from the same source, the Arbiter. You know, the being that has the original trait of the twins combined? It's not even like they're experts with each other's ability. The 4th is great with her Memory Trait, for obvious reasons, and yet the 3rd sucked at it. Them being able to pass on their twin trait isn't even a big deal, going off of Ella's and Aglaecwif reaction. Also, what does the Apostle Twins appearance have to do with anything? There's nothing that says the twins have to look a like. Even in real life twins don't have to be identical. That seems like an odd point to try and make.

As for you dying on the hill, why would I care? You're allowed to do whatever you want, just like myself. Going with what's shown in game though, we see only one twin infect the MC. We see that one acknowledged by everyone that comments on it and only see that one during majority of the scenes that involve the parent showing up. The MC only refers to one as Mother or Father. Even in the scene with both of them. Aglaecwif also cosigns Ella about Jake being able to get Order, which requires the Power Trait from the 2nd, and we know he's only the spawn of the 1st.

There's also a huge flaw here and I'm surprised you didn't realize it. Why didn't Ella get the Memory Trait if "team work" is the only requirement? Was she unlucky? But according to you, there shouldn't be any luck involved. Ella expected the Memory Trait at multiple points and yet she failed. So is she just the spawn of the 3rd? But if that's the case why would she expect the Memory Trait if team work is what made the dream work? Or is she also the spawn of the 3rd and 4th? But then why didn't she get both if all it takes is "team work" from them? Why wouldn't they work together for Ella, who was also compatible but do it for the MC? Sound like luck does play a part and that the MC is special, regardless if you believed that both of them were required.

Hell, why not have more spawns with both traits if all it took was them working together and infecting the same person? So, pick your poison, I guess. Either Ella is only the spawn of the 3rd but she felt like she could get the 4th's trait, which contradicts you since she would know better than us and you said it doesn't work that way. Or she's the spawn of both like the MC but didn't get it regardless of them working together, which would still go against the notion that both infecting a single person gives both traits. Either way you go, it would contradict your own view on it since there's conditions for it all. You can always take option 3 and say Ella was just wrong but then you'll have to say that about a lot of things she said. Especially since she claimed to know more about monsters than any other human or superhuman in game.

Lastly, there's nothing in the story that, "narratively" contradicts getting both from one twin. Monsters pass on their "genes, traits and powers" via infection. It's already confirmed in game that the 3rd and 4th share their traits. If power and traits are passed on via infection then why wouldn't the 4th, who has the Memory Trait and a certain level of the Body Trait, pass on both, if they're compatible enough? Same with the 3rd, who we know has the Memory Trait but is bad at it. The MC having a perfect balance means nothing when his traits were at the very bottom of their growth. It's like saying a Novice Mage with fire and lightning spells is perfect compared to a Expert who has fire mastery with lower lightning spells. Of course he'd seem perfect when he's wielding low level spells currently.


Tldr: Basically, this is being needlessly over complicated when the game shows you plenty of reasons for it to be multiple ways. There really shouldn't be a hang up here besides ones own personal belief getting in the way.


It's not really a theory, to be frank. Ella already confirmed cross inheritance is a thing when she saw that the MC only got shapeshifting and said "I thought as much" even though you're a spawn of the 4th. Her and Aglaecwif thoughts on Jake and inheriting both traits lead to confirmation as well.

You don't really have to look at the 7th. Though I did point it out that he used Light to kill the MC as supporting evidence that the 8th is Light. All you would have to do is look at the 3rd in the beginning after trying the 4th. It's clear he tried to read the MC's Memory but couldn't get it to work without hurting the MC so he used his Devouring Tentacle instead. MC later retells it when talking to Alice and Clark about how he was turned.

The 7th having Light, in some portion, just proves that the Twins, even outside of the 3rd and 4th, share their traits. Even when they don't work together. Could it increase in potency if they did, or the likely hood of their spawn getting both traits? Possibly.


Interesting take. One I haven't really thought about, admittedly. That still would mean only one, potentially, infected the MC though. Even in that scene when they used their injection, you'll notice the color matches the color of themselves and not a mix of both. The 4th's liquid in her injection is pink, while the 3rd is bluish purple. If the purpose was to give both via that method, only one was required, since they did both and the twin didn't do the other.

If both injections had the same color or the opposite twin came and did it than I could see why one would think they both mixed theirs together. But in game, only one did both and the color matched the twin who did it which would prove only one had a hand in it, not both. If this method is accurate.



Anyway, that ends my ridiculously long post. You guys are going to have to suffer this wall of text because I didn't spoiler shit. :KEK:
Ha joke's on you i Saw the meme first and i knew you were just being mean XD
 
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Aristarkhos

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Jun 23, 2017
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There's also a huge flaw here and I'm surprised you didn't realize it. Why didn't Ella get the Memory Trait if "team work" is the only requirement? Was she unlucky? But according to you, there shouldn't be any luck involved. Ella expected the Memory Trait at multiple points and yet she failed. So is she just the spawn of the 3rd? But if that's the case why would she expect the Memory Trait if team work is what made the dream work? Or is she also the spawn of the 3rd and 4th? But then why didn't she get both if all it takes is "team work" from them? Why wouldn't they work together for Ella, who was also compatible but do it for the MC? Sound like luck does play a part and that the MC is special, regardless if you believed that both of them were required.
Ella most likely simply isn't nearly as compatible with Memory (and Memory's powers) as she is with Body. Which those two would likely recognize. We have yet to see her infection in any flashback or the like. So we can only speculate.

Interesting take. One I haven't really thought about, admittedly. That still would mean only one, potentially, infected the MC though.
I did not contradict this, and I agree. MC is stated at multiple points to be the spawn of one Apostle, not both.
 
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