- Apr 6, 2023
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I think both of these arguments(?) are correct depending on the situation/SuperHuman or there is a middle ground where both aspects co-exist leaving enough room for both science and magic
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- Jul 13, 2021
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Pretty much every interaction has both a magical and a realistic component. While I'm hard pressed to find a effect that can't be mapped to an actual or theoretical scientific concept, I can't possibly contest that point. For example the Authority, Memory, Dark and Deryl's specific brand of Creation effects are iffy. I can try to fit them into realistic concepts but there's not much point in doing so unless the game gives me a reason to.
The operating word in these premises though is "inherent". If for example Malik's flame burns at 3000 C, I expect it to be capable of melting the materials that melt up to this temperature and nothing else. In the same manner, if an ability's effect is supposed to be equivalent of 100 nukes, I expect that if 100 nukes explode, they will have similar effect on the target, no matter if it's a monster or a man made construct.
- Jan 16, 2024
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Hey man what's up? nice to have you here
1.Yes WeirdWorld the author plans to have everything updated to the new look on version 1.0
2.No idea, probably would get replaced by a random H.E.R.O agent or one of MC friends just like Deryl replacing Danica if you killed her
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- Jul 13, 2021
- 911
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No, let the Foxglove twins stay human, we don't need more pointless drama. Let the MC manage to save them from being abducted.
I too do reckon that both arguments are true, that some powers produce inherently magical effects that can imitate the mundane, and some produce inherently mundane effects that can be augmented to supernatural heights via magic. The MC is a superhuman I definitely think falls into the latter category and could be used to prove that argument's validity. True, his body may be some sort of soup of organic and inorganic materials that explicitly relies on energy to stay in a specific shape, but I still think his body's materials are mundane despite that.
One piece of evidence he provides towards the latter argument is the fact that he can't just manifest magically tough materials. Instead of just say, making his bones as tough as diamond since it's supposedly magical bone, he goes through the trouble of actually turning his pre-existing bones to diamond. His bones aren't inherently magical and thus capable of just imitating the mundane properties of diamond, rather they need to be converted from one mundane substance to another using Monster Power/Energy as a medium to make that happen.
Another good example that argues in favour of the latter interpretation are the cases of Jordan and Nikki. They don't have Monster Power/Energy; even if they did it wouldn't work to maintain the MC's transformations, as the magical energy source needed to fuel a power is unique and incompatible with other powers. This implies the biomass the MC creates must be simply mundane biological material that just used a magical energy source to generate and shape it. It can't be just a magical construct imitating mundane flesh that vanishes if cut off from a supply of magic, because these two lack any magic to sustain its existence. Furthermore, it's also evident that superhuman cells are still subject to the cell death. If the MC's generated biomass was just a magical construct that evaporates due to bleeding magic, then Nikki and Jordan's parts would probably just evaporate over time since even Ella left dead material about. It'd be especially noticeable in Nikki, as having 300 million magically constructed cells of their heavily modified body evaporate every minute without a method to replace them would probably turn them into something Junji Ito would draw mid-conversation. Yet their parts actually do persist in the absence of magical Monster Power/Energy. Doll Ella's exposition further reinforces this idea. She says us that material made by them require constant energy to sustain themselves permanently, not that it needs to be mundane or magical. Thus implying that what's generated is just mundane biomass that can take mundane or magical energy.
TL;DR: I too think both arguments hold true depending on the superhuman, and that the MC's powers both fall into and can prove the validity of the argument that some superhuman powers have effects that are inherently mundane but can be augmented to supernatural heights via magic. My evidence for this proving the latter argument relies on him needing to replace mundane material with other mundane material rather than just alter their properties, and ordinary humans he's transformed not having altered or generated biomass evaporate despite not having any magical energy to fuel its existence, 300 million cells dying every minute and in-game evidence showing even biologically immortal superhumans such as Ella needing to replace their cells.
One piece of evidence he provides towards the latter argument is the fact that he can't just manifest magically tough materials. Instead of just say, making his bones as tough as diamond since it's supposedly magical bone, he goes through the trouble of actually turning his pre-existing bones to diamond. His bones aren't inherently magical and thus capable of just imitating the mundane properties of diamond, rather they need to be converted from one mundane substance to another using Monster Power/Energy as a medium to make that happen.
Another good example that argues in favour of the latter interpretation are the cases of Jordan and Nikki. They don't have Monster Power/Energy; even if they did it wouldn't work to maintain the MC's transformations, as the magical energy source needed to fuel a power is unique and incompatible with other powers. This implies the biomass the MC creates must be simply mundane biological material that just used a magical energy source to generate and shape it. It can't be just a magical construct imitating mundane flesh that vanishes if cut off from a supply of magic, because these two lack any magic to sustain its existence. Furthermore, it's also evident that superhuman cells are still subject to the cell death. If the MC's generated biomass was just a magical construct that evaporates due to bleeding magic, then Nikki and Jordan's parts would probably just evaporate over time since even Ella left dead material about. It'd be especially noticeable in Nikki, as having 300 million magically constructed cells of their heavily modified body evaporate every minute without a method to replace them would probably turn them into something Junji Ito would draw mid-conversation. Yet their parts actually do persist in the absence of magical Monster Power/Energy. Doll Ella's exposition further reinforces this idea. She says us that material made by them require constant energy to sustain themselves permanently, not that it needs to be mundane or magical. Thus implying that what's generated is just mundane biomass that can take mundane or magical energy.
TL;DR: I too think both arguments hold true depending on the superhuman, and that the MC's powers both fall into and can prove the validity of the argument that some superhuman powers have effects that are inherently mundane but can be augmented to supernatural heights via magic. My evidence for this proving the latter argument relies on him needing to replace mundane material with other mundane material rather than just alter their properties, and ordinary humans he's transformed not having altered or generated biomass evaporate despite not having any magical energy to fuel its existence, 300 million cells dying every minute and in-game evidence showing even biologically immortal superhumans such as Ella needing to replace their cells.
To chime in to the supernatural phenomenon discussion. All monster powers stem from apostles, beings of unimaginable power, who existed from the beginning of universe and represent some aspect of it. Any kind of effect produced by a superhuman comes from a primordial higher plane, which makes them in a sense more real than general universe, but at the same time distant from other aspects of reality, making it all alien.
- Jul 13, 2021
- 911
- 5,584
The game gives us enough breadcrumps to piece together a cosmological theory. We don't have to create our own threads to follow. We can theorize based on the script. This is my attempt, based on things that happen in the game. I won't say that I'm correct but I think my proposition has a solid foundation and I welcome any discussion on my analysis of the written word. 0.95 was a huge lore dump and after 500 pages we still feel the aftereffects.
That's the Eye saying that his surroundings are born from him and part of him. The Eye is the Arbiter of Matter, his children are Body (Mass) and Memory (Structure). He is the one who created everything that the inhabitants of this universe can touch.
So the implication is that any matter that exists in the game, a common rock or a biological organism, is built from something that he created. But why does it suffocate him? Because following the logic that I will explain later, he is only the matter, not the purpose. He does not decide what others will make of his creations.
The rock, the cave, the tree, the human, are creations of another Arbiter, probably the one associated with Creation (6th Arbiter)
This feed into the good old theory that the Arbiters are the creators of the universe. Aglaecwif hints at it,
Jake is the spawn of Authority. So if Jake is to inherit Order, it means that it's connected to the First Arbiter.
Now we can create a cosmological theory of the universe:
The First is hinted to be the one that determines the laws of the universe.
The Second is hinted to be the creator of all matter.
And the other Origins affect their respective portfolio.
This also allows us to theorize why Superhumans are capable of impossible feats. If Order is a power, then it can be countered, nullified or overwhelmed.
So to summarize:
There exist very strong indications that everything in the universe is the result of Divine Beings (Arbiters) applying their power.
This means that this Universe wasn't created from a Big Bang or some process that we can conceptualize scientifically, but from some sort of Magic. This Magic created EVERYTHING in this Universe.
The notion is fairly similar to the religious cosmological ideas, but I won't open this can of worms.
-- This is not a fact, it's an assumption. An educated one but an assumption none the less. It may turn out to be wrong so I don't claim correctness, I just claim that opposing opinions need to account for the information found in these quotes.
Now I don't know how various people define mundane, but the simple truth is that if literally every existing object is magical, then no object is magical.
So I define the process by which everything was created as magical and the effects of these processes as mundane.
If something which is supposed to be mundane, doesn't behave as expected, then it seems that some magical process is involved to alter it or "enchant" it but we can't assume that it changes it's fundamental qualities unless explicitly stated.
What I understand from this quote is this:MC from Deadend37 said:
That's the Eye saying that his surroundings are born from him and part of him. The Eye is the Arbiter of Matter, his children are Body (Mass) and Memory (Structure). He is the one who created everything that the inhabitants of this universe can touch.
So the implication is that any matter that exists in the game, a common rock or a biological organism, is built from something that he created. But why does it suffocate him? Because following the logic that I will explain later, he is only the matter, not the purpose. He does not decide what others will make of his creations.
The rock, the cave, the tree, the human, are creations of another Arbiter, probably the one associated with Creation (6th Arbiter)
This feed into the good old theory that the Arbiters are the creators of the universe. Aglaecwif hints at it,
The only rational thought I can make here is that Aglaecwif refers to Jake. He fits the description perfectly so it's a fairly safe assumption.Aglaecwif said:
Jake is the spawn of Authority. So if Jake is to inherit Order, it means that it's connected to the First Arbiter.
Now we can create a cosmological theory of the universe:
The First is hinted to be the one that determines the laws of the universe.
The Second is hinted to be the creator of all matter.
And the other Origins affect their respective portfolio.
This also allows us to theorize why Superhumans are capable of impossible feats. If Order is a power, then it can be countered, nullified or overwhelmed.
So to summarize:
There exist very strong indications that everything in the universe is the result of Divine Beings (Arbiters) applying their power.
This means that this Universe wasn't created from a Big Bang or some process that we can conceptualize scientifically, but from some sort of Magic. This Magic created EVERYTHING in this Universe.
The notion is fairly similar to the religious cosmological ideas, but I won't open this can of worms.
-- This is not a fact, it's an assumption. An educated one but an assumption none the less. It may turn out to be wrong so I don't claim correctness, I just claim that opposing opinions need to account for the information found in these quotes.
Now I don't know how various people define mundane, but the simple truth is that if literally every existing object is magical, then no object is magical.
So I define the process by which everything was created as magical and the effects of these processes as mundane.
If something which is supposed to be mundane, doesn't behave as expected, then it seems that some magical process is involved to alter it or "enchant" it but we can't assume that it changes it's fundamental qualities unless explicitly stated.
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I think you made a mistake presuming that things in this universe are split into basic reality and it's modifications. Exact opposite is true: 6 or 12 energies/concepts are the starting point with mundane and normal stuff as a muddled byproduct.
- Jul 13, 2021
- 911
- 5,584
Are you refering to the split between the "process" and the "object"?
I use an approach similar to religion for this:
Think of it like the ideas of Christianity for example:
The god creates everything, which is a "magical" process.
The objects he created are real and mundane.
Just because the God made a rock, it doesn't mean that we can expect this rock to behave in any way that is not consistent with our understanding. If it does, like for example if it starts defying gravity for some unexplained reason, then it's a miracle (another "magical" process).
If you didn't refer to this then I missed your point. Care to elaborate?
You treat normal universe as a ground zero to measure reality. "Magic" lightning produced by Met is capable of charge kinesis not because it was modified/enchanted, but because it's more primal and free from interference from other apostles. Mundane exist on the intersection of all original energies, and is secondary in nature.
- Jul 13, 2021
- 911
- 5,584
Assuming that I understand your premise correctly, yes, I don't support the idea that something can be free from the framework created by the divine beings, at least not with significant effort which is probably beyond Met at this point. The main reason is the description of the "Order" power and my assumption that it's the power of the FIrst Arbiter.
We know that there exists a thing called "Higher Plane" which is probably something like the home of gods. Additionally we know that Apostles can't fully manifest in the "Lower Plane" but it's obvious that they can apply their power, creating those avatars. So we see a mechanism for Divine Beings inhabiting the Higher Plane, to shape the "Lower Plane".
WIthout getting into a chicken & egg argument, I notice a hierarchical structure. Something created the Higher Plane and something that inhabits it created the "Lower Plane". So everything existing in the Lower Plane works by the rules of it's creators (which is both a joint effort and we can also observe an order of dependency), unless a significantly strong individual or someone who pulls power directly from the higher plane, or some other edge case, is capable of suppressing these rules momentarily (that's the closest I can get to your idea of "primal" as I understand it).
So in Met's case, I find it more likely that the effect is the result of applying a specific type of magic that comes directly from his Lineage and perhaps assisted by a mundane interaction, than somehow being free from interference / working outside of the divine framework.
The things that can be found in the higher plane are beyond me, and for now I consider them fundamentally different that what can be found in the lower plane.
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I was pointing out precisely that hierarchy, but without the suppression part.
About acts outside of "divine framework", that's exactly how it happens. Somebody gets a connection to the higher plane and gets an ability to channel them in a more primal way. Closer one is to the apostle, less interference they encounter from others, more complex lineage - more "grounded" powers are. Met's parent Leigong is 58% 2nd, 34% 6th, and 8% 10th compared to pure apostle lineage of his brother. Michael's ability is control over energy, monster or natural alike, while Met is capable only of physical control and imbuement of his own power.
- Feb 22, 2019
- 608
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0.975 Beta Release!
Hey, 0.975 is out.
Have a good weekend guys.
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- Aug 19, 2022
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I don't know. I think it's not the full twin's arc but as it's a 3 month update it should be the same size as the previous one so it's a big update. I think he also going more slowly toward the 1.0 version as he wants to be in a certain part of the story before reaching that number.
- Jul 13, 2021
- 911
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An interesting idea that I will have to think about. I see some a few common points with my own theory. May I ask if this connection is supposed to happen randomly or it's the result of Evolution or some other significant milestone that happens in the Superhuman's life?
I think WW said that he couldn't put everything he wanted in the update to qualify as 0.98, so he named in 0.975. However his versioning system isn't very consistent. Usually his updates add 1 in-game week. I will have to see what happens in this one to make any predictions.
You are immortal.
- Jan 16, 2024
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Evolutionary power surge comes directly from higher plane. I don't know about first evolution, but that's definitely the case for each consecutive one.
- Jul 28, 2017
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