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Gtdead

Active Member
Jul 13, 2021
922
5,722
I'll summarize
You are
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My other favorite girl is Ella.....trustworthiness is secondary :HideThePain:
You had to go there, didn't you? :ROFLMAO:
Tbh, I implicitly trust that she wants MC to get strong. She may end up feeding him to a god or something, but at least I can use the word "trust" in the same sentence. That's something!

Power doesn't mean much when there is an abstract feeling into the powers of superhumans. That, and also the quality jump from level 1 to level 2, and so on. The power is more akin to a mana pool and shouldn't have more meaning than that to be honest.
I think it has to be more nuanced than that. We focus a lot on the evolution levels etc because the story deals with MC's development. But when looking at the level 5s, particularly the captains, it's chaos.

And even among level 4s, the difference in power between characters is significant. Ella as a level 4 was capable of bitchslapping S Class monsters. Most of HERO level 4s aren't on that level. Clark and Alexis have been Superhumans for a longer time.

Is it about ability and skill? Perhaps at to a point, but neither explain Bernhardt..
 

Simpgor

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2020
1,000
2,627
You had to go there, didn't you? :ROFLMAO:
Tbh, I implicitly trust that she wants MC to get strong. She may end up feeding him to a god or something, but at least I can use the word "trust" in the same sentence. That's something!
That's more than some people grant her so I'll take it :KEK:
I feel like she's more likely to want MC to eat god though but that might just be my "badass onee-sama trainer" fetish that the grisaia games started acting up
 

KingAgamemnon

Member
Aug 7, 2022
391
646
Tbh, I implicitly trust that she wants MC to get strong. She may end up feeding him to a god or something, but at least I can use the word "trust" in the same sentence. That's something!
You can trust in untrustworthy people so long as they are reliably untrustworthy. And I can definitely trust that Ella will try to fuck us over again. So there's no betrayal :D
 

lorkdubo

Active Member
Aug 19, 2022
619
1,193
I think it has to be more nuanced than that. We focus a lot on the evolution levels etc because the story deals with MC's development. But when looking at the level 5s, particularly the captains, it's chaos.

And even among level 4s, the difference in power between characters is significant. Ella as a level 4 was capable of bitchslapping S Class monsters. Most of HERO level 4s aren't on that level. Clark and Alexis have been Superhumans for a longer time.

Is it about ability and skill? Perhaps at to a point, but neither explain Bernhardt..
I don't mean that the power pool is obsolete, but akin to the development of your power in quality, there is also the scope of what you can do with the power pool you have. There was a novel or comic where the MC had the power of temperature control, where he had shit mana/power pool, but alongside his quality improvement, the more his mana/power pool, the more stuff he could do, like control the temperature of a person and kill them instantly, but he didn't need that much mana/power pool to do that. The biggest change came from a paradigm shift in how he viewed his "thrash" power.
Tiffany's power is busted, and it's not given the proper justice it deserves, to be honest.
 

Dipasimaan

Active Member
Feb 22, 2019
686
5,784
How the hell do they get their samples? Sign me up.
I'm willing to bet that they deduce this from bra sales.
If it's like this then the results are a bit flawed, not too much but enough to not be neglected, because there are many young girls that have yet to develop that buys bras.
Also there are many girls that buy a different cup than what they should exactly wear, don't ask me why but it's just like this
 

Simpgor

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2020
1,000
2,627
Trust in her self interest
The only thing I can't get behind as her "self interest" is healing Mia. It doesn't make sense for her to keep her promise to a (potentially dead) failure like Jake and she would know that MC would be able to do it at some point because ella has always been more body than memory.

I think its plot reasons over her being nice to MC for once but I really don't see how her helping the MC out a few weeks before he could solve it himself fits with her MO
 

Gtdead

Active Member
Jul 13, 2021
922
5,722
I don't mean that the power pool is obsolete, but akin to the development of your power in quality, there is also the scope of what you can do with the power pool you have. There was a novel or comic where the MC had the power of temperature control, where he had shit mana/power pool, but alongside his quality improvement, the more his mana/power pool, the more stuff he could do, like control the temperature of a person and kill them instantly, but he didn't need that much mana/power pool to do that. The biggest change came from a paradigm shift in how he viewed his "thrash" power.
Tiffany's power is busted, and it's not given the proper justice it deserves, to be honest.
In this context it's a good parallel. After all Level 1 MC has a lot of trouble making small amounts of steel, but he could always create his jacket buttons without even thinking about it.

In any case, we need a theory that can explain the following.
1. Output
2. Efficiency
3. Pool and Replenishment
4. Interactions and Contests.
5. State and transformation.

Output is fairly simple. The more power you have, the more you can output.

Efficiency is a bit odd. We know that it exists as a concept, but it doesn't seem to be related to Power or training. Instead it's related to.. connection. The main theme behind Evolution Trances is that the Superhumans can output way more than they should due to efficiency.

Pool seems straightforward. The more power you have, the bigger your pool. How you gain back that energy though is a mystery. For example MC at some point says that as long as he fights low class monsters, he can keep up practically indefinitely. Then we have Alice who thanks to Clark's power she could replenish her power reserves to throw more bombs, but it was a trickle instead of being able to capitalize on the extreme power housed in her arm.

The Power contests are a nightmare. The obvious example here is Ella vs Duncan but there are more, like how could Jake affect Laurie so completely when they had the same Power. Also how the Jake vs MC fight played out, where MC claims that Jake's commands are efficient compared to his fighting style.

State and transformation have to do with the higher evolutions. How Power affects and strengthens the body or how Kira and Elijah could use their reserves to control their movement.

I'm certain that not all of those are attributed directly to Power and connection probably plays some role, along with the evolution level. The exact system though remains a mystery.

As for Tiffany, 100% agreed. She is indeed busted. I've been vocal about this.
 

Athmas

New Member
Oct 8, 2023
14
37
Out of curiosity, What did you guys name the mc and the mc's superhero name?

I just named mine Deacon Killgrave cause it sounded edgy and his superhero name Blacklight (based from the virus in the prototype games)
Real name
and i called him King
 

INquiop

Member
Jun 13, 2018
113
104
I named mine Neradis Dreamore Hero name Sabil (From Spiderman PS4) cause I had her on my mind at that time
 

Athmas

New Member
Oct 8, 2023
14
37
Here you go lads, just posted it

Sorry about the cliffhanger last update btw, I don't do it to be a dick(I am a dick though, don't think otherwise), I generally just do it on a dramatic moment. I mean sure, I could've just cut the update at the end of one of the dream segments, but who the fuck would be satisfied with that? I like to get people hyped up and talking.
I hope he's happy, had to go through withdrawal for a month and only just got back to normal at the end of February.
 
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TerminusPrime

Member
Nov 23, 2020
178
447
I agree that it's exponential after all I'm sure MC now (400-500) could easily beat a dozen MC/Kyle during the first party. Is there a level of power that causes you to fail the fight at the restaurant at the very start of the game? If you lose with less than 4 power for example and there are 4 guys it could make some sense that (at low levels) 1 power is 1 human but even then they had guns and were just random thugs which wouldn't be "average".
If you don't train at all before the fight in the diner and decide to fight the thugs you'll get a bad end. It's actually one of the most interesting bad ends in the game, especially since it was written very early in the game's development. It doesn't take very long to get to that if you start a new game. I suggest checking it out if you have 10 minutes to spare.
 

Gtdead

Active Member
Jul 13, 2021
922
5,722
If you don't train at all before the fight in the diner and decide to fight the thugs you'll get a bad end. It's actually one of the most interesting bad ends in the game, especially since it was written very early in the game's development. It doesn't take very long to get to that if you start a new game. I suggest checking it out if you have 10 minutes to spare.
There are some earlier scenes that have a lot of exposition but at the point they were released, the audience didn't know what to make of them.
The first deadend is one of my favorites. It's the first manifestation of the autonomous tail and the Power increase is an interesting piece of exposition.
Another interesting scene is hunting for the Minyak with Tiffany. It mentions greater spawn, ancient powers etc. It's the first instance of monsters showing some form of reverence towards MC, even if the Minyak was hungry out of it's mind.
 

Simpgor

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2020
1,000
2,627
If you don't train at all before the fight in the diner and decide to fight the thugs you'll get a bad end. It's actually one of the most interesting bad ends in the game, especially since it was written very early in the game's development. It doesn't take very long to get to that if you start a new game. I suggest checking it out if you have 10 minutes to spare.
I vaguely recalled that a possible dead end there but since 1 power is largely irrelevant now (and it probably doesn't fail at >4 power anyway) im not going to bother. But I agree alot of early dead ends are very interesting in retrospect. Makes me wonder if/how more recent dead ends do the same (as far as foreshadowing).

There are some earlier scenes that have a lot of exposition but at the point they were released, the audience didn't know what to make of them.
There is even small stuff like Deryll not being able to look MC in the eyes (for a line or two) when Jake is getting bullied on the first day. Really shows that WW has had a fair amount of stuff planned from the very beginning
 

TerminusPrime

Member
Nov 23, 2020
178
447
I vaguely recalled that a possible dead end there but since 1 power is largely irrelevant now (and it probably doesn't fail at >4 power anyway) im not going to bother. But I agree alot of early dead ends are very interesting in retrospect. Makes me wonder if/how more recent dead ends do the same (as far as foreshadowing).



There is even small stuff like Deryll not being able to look MC in the eyes (for a line or two) when Jake is getting bullied on the first day. Really shows that WW has had a fair amount of stuff planned from the very beginning
The interesting part about the first dead end is it's not dependent on the power stat. You have to train before the fight so you can learn to make your black hands. If you don't train you try to fight with just your stretchy arms, which causes the loss.
 

jak1165

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2018
1,012
1,281
The only thing I can't get behind as her "self interest" is healing Mia. It doesn't make sense for her to keep her promise to a (potentially dead) failure like Jake and she would know that MC would be able to do it at some point because ella has always been more body than memory.

I think its plot reasons over her being nice to MC for once but I really don't see how her helping the MC out a few weeks before he could solve it himself fits with her MO
Ella has already made clear that everything she does, she does for a reason. She's killed a lot of people. She's done some heinous shit. But in her view, everything she has done, she believes will make the world a better place. Will it? Irrelevant, imo. As longas Ella is motivated by her brand of self-righteousness, she'll do whatever she does. Its not hard to think that Ella is playing 8 moves ahead
 
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Simpgor

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2020
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As longas Ella is motivated by her brand of self-righteousness, she'll do whatever she does. Its not hard to think that Ella is playing 8 moves ahead
I do think she "had a reason" and personally I think its plot. Waking Mia up before getting forced into hero (mc can't leave) makes the plot alot "easier".

In universe though what is the "8 moves" ahead for healing Mia a couple of weeks early? MC has the ability to not thank her so its not like she's doing it to get in MC good graces which relies on you wanting/caring about Mia in the first place.

Obviously she could be playing 40d chess and knows Mia's entire future and that she'll be absolutely required for her plan but there's just as much chance she isn't (50/50)
 
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