Malik could still beat Ella though. She has to stay still in order to stop Malik from vaporising her, and that drains her energy alot as Malik said. So the eye, which I think is the arbiter is something greater than the "apostles"? and the apostles are not god's? Also who does the eye want us to kill when on high corruption? In my playthrough, when I was on 10 corruption, he mentions sons and daughters of oil, false authority or something, the Assassin and everyone that comes after? Or is it different on even higher corruption?
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- Dec 20, 2020
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Malik being able to defeat Ella doesn't mean that he would be able to win against Arbiter-form MC or vice versa. Ella's ability to resist Malik's flames is inferior to Arbiter having access to basically infinite mass and energy through the higher dimensions. The Apostles are still gods, but The Arbiter is even more powerful. Basically a Higher God, with the Apostles being Lesser Gods. The Eye refers to Kenny, Bailey, Jake and Danica. You got to 'nom them all to fulfill your true potential, according to it.
yes malik could beat ella because she had a limited amount of meat underground, imo the way the arbiter was speaking they could provide much more meat from the immaterial, he would not beat malik with that but he would be able to stand there longer than malik would be able to burn which is why deus has to pull some timey wimey stuff to win and "end" the dead end
the apostles arent "gods" in the literal or powerscaling sense, we know this for a fact because things like "order" (combination of power + authority mentioned by Aglaecwif) can/have existed so there are at least 6 things closer to "god" than the apostles.
iirc we dont know why the eye specifically says it and on low corruption they speak more about needing allies so i think its likely that MC will need to be able to use others powers (either by consuming them or them fighting by his side). Im not 100% where things speifically were said but i am sure that one of the scenes where the eye talks to you (in a dream iirc) the scene is tagged as "alliesneeded" (have to view paths/variables to see) or something akin to that on low corruption, the eye also mentions that "love" is difficult if you pick that option when they ask you want you want when MC is about to evo into 3rd level. Which imo makes sense if their full power can only be achieved by eating literally everything and everyone
oh also it specifically mentions that even space isnt "empty/dead/desolate/as it used to be" enough its just better than the battlefield
Yes the eye is probably one of the six arbiters, every pair of twin apostles makes one arbiter they are probably stronger than the apostles but that is pure speculation on my part, i cant answer the question if apostles are gods because different definition of the word god give different answers, last but not least the eye doesn't want you to kill anyone it simply tells you what you need to do if you want to achieve your true potential and that is to devour every superhuman you have the chance to.
Hmm that's weird. So arbiter is a true God, with apostles being lesser gods. And arbiter is different to the 3rd and the 4th? Which means we have the powers of 3 gods inside us? Does Ella know about it? Is she also in contact with the arbiter? Or is arbiter some sort of fallen god and only the mc knows about him? With his ultimate goal being to kill everyone and everything? And how was Deus able to kill us if we are unkillable because of infinite energy and regeneration?
Someone or something that is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. When talking about superhuman, god or god's have to be something similar to that.
1. WW toys with the idea of gods in story with Aglaecwif mentioning that she was viewed as a god by humans in the distant past....but MC is out here banging her like a normal (monster) girl, we wont know how "godly" any character is until the very end of the game (serious anwser) or until mc gets a chance to bang them (joke..... maybe)
2. Yes the 3rd is the black mannequin looking mosnter that infects you if you one direction when MC gets infected as well as being the one that infected ella, the 4th is the flesh colored mannequin looking monster that transforms into a big tiddy goth gf if you pick the other direction when you get infected, the 4th is also MCs "biological" grandma because Syla refers to her as MCs grandma even if you were infected by the 3rd. The eye is...... well an eye that is 100% not the 3rd or the 4th during the evo into 3rd it specifically tells you to ignore both of them and listen to it. Yes the 3rd/4th are the only pair of twins that want a split chosen so unlike others their infection is more of a mix even if they are directly involved (at least for both mc and ella), however for some (currently unknown) reason MC does have the eye as well so yes there are technically 3 "powers" in MC but really only 2 (the twins power and the eye)
3. iirc Nobody has mentioned the eye directly nor has the MC mentioned it to anybody due to being in a trance it would not surprise me if Ella knew about it because she was more sad than surprised when she sees arbiter MC
4. iirc deus was not attacking the arbiter mc "in front" of him he was attacking him at a previous point when he wasnt unkillable....but now we "know" that deus isnt related to time powers (he tells you this before saying gtfo out of my head and go bang Claudia) so how he was able to do that is a very very good (currently unanswerable) question
also arbiter says deus is not a "spawn" (superhuman) which raises even more questions
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I hope Ella doesn't know about the eye. This makes him all the more mysterious and terrifying. Knowing there's something inside us that is truly hidden from everyone, Ella, the heroes, the sins, planning who knows what behind the scenes, waiting to be unleashed. Also deus's attack went back in time to kill us before we became the arbiter? Is that what you're saying? Lmao.1. WW toys with the idea of gods in story with Aglaecwif mentioning that she was viewed as a god by humans in the distant past....but MC is out here banging her like a normal (monster) girl, we wont know how "godly" any character is until the very end of the game (serious anwser) or until mc gets a chance to bang them (joke..... maybe)
2. Yes the 3rd is the black mannequin looking mosnter that infects you if you one direction when MC gets infected as well as being the one that infected ella, the 4th is the flesh colored mannequin looking monster that transforms into a big tiddy goth gf if you pick the other direction when you get infected, the 4th is also MCs "biological" grandma because Syla refers to her as MCs grandma even if you were infected by the 3rd. The eye is...... well an eye that is 100% not the 3rd or the 4th during the evo into 3rd it specifically tells you to ignore both of them and listen to it. Yes the 3rd/4th are the only pair of twins that want a split chosen so unlike others their infection is more of a mix even if they are directly involved (at least for both mc and ella), however for some (currently unknown) reason MC does have the eye as well so yes there are technically 3 "powers" in MC but really only 2 (the twins power and the eye)
3. iirc Nobody has mentioned the eye directly nor has the MC mentioned it to anybody due to being in a trance it would not surprise me if Ella knew about it because she was more sad than surprised when she sees arbiter MC
4. iirc deus was not attacking the arbiter mc "in front" of him he was attacking him at a previous point when he wasnt unkillable....but now we "know" that deus isnt related to time powers (he tells you this before saying gtfo out of my head and go bang Claudia) so how he was able to do that is a very very good (currently unanswerable) question
I appreciate all of you taking your time to reply to my questions. I recently finished the game so I have more questions than answers.
- Feb 22, 2019
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While this is quite alright and the norm you can also check the fan-made wiki:
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It has every single information as it has been made by our most archivists kind of brothers, also some trivia and some instructions to various things.
If you have some vague doubts that you can't put into some kind of question try to hop on here and see if useful for you
- Apr 17, 2024
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Ella has some idea that something is going to possess or fuse with the MC, but I don't think she knows about the Eye specifically. Early in the game, right before she fights Clark and Lexi, the narration describes her inner monologue musing about her plans. Apparently she's looking for a host body for some entity to occupy, and is sad to think that the MC is the probably the best bet for that. But she doesn't appear to have any awareness of what exactly that entity is. She seems to think that potentially it could find a host in any strong enough superhuman, regardless of their monster parentage. The Eye, as far as we know, has a particular connection to the MC and the Third and Fourth Apostles. Which makes the Eye even more mysterious and terrifying, to me. It's convinced Ella that she should work towards its arrival, but without actually telling her anything about what it is.
The eye just wants to be brought into the world its not even "evil" since on low corruption it doesnt go "nooo you will consume everything!!!!!" instead just saying well thats gonna be harder you better make sure you getting them relationship points up, and like I said we arent shown what happens when you have under 25 corruption so its not even for sure that they would go to fight deus, get ella etc
I think deus himself "went back in time" rather than attacking back in time but yes iirc MC couldnt regen the limbs because they just "werent ever there" from his perspective or something similar but like i said unless deus was lying his powers arent realted to time so we dont really know right now.
Thinking about it we see deus attack the tv head in the immaterial from the real world but he didnt attack the arbiter that way
Happy to discuss this game its one of the best on the site for fostering intresting disccusion
- Feb 22, 2019
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Wait, I just thought of it now but if the Arbiter gets his "infinite mass" from the immaterial world and Deus can actually interact with it then isn't it possible for him to attack him at his origin? That would also explain why the limbs "were never there"
- Apr 17, 2024
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That's certainly implied. The Eye/MC fusion's inner monologue describes its limitless power being cut off and its energy supply being returned to what it was before its ascension. Whatever Deus is doing, whether he's attacking through time or parallel dimensions or whatever, it can mess with a connection to the "higher planes".
The way the arbiter was talking makes me think it has a connection to MC and not the apostles specifically. If the eye was "evolution" (combo of body + memory) then him talking about how everything was better when there was "nothing" or "only him" (when he gets sent to space) or whatever doesnt really make sense? You would think "evolution" would want things to evolve past just them? Which kinda tracks with body/memory being willing to do a 50/50 split unlike the other apostles
I was thinking about that and i feel like the arbiter would have realized if they being attacked there? also deus vanishes (iirc?) but when he attacks the tv head from real world he just fires some lasers lol. Perhaps some sort of combination of "time travel" and the immaterial ? Or maybe deus is playing 4000d chess and was lying to MC during his training dream for....deus reasons
- Dec 20, 2020
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The Apostoles are Lesser Gods in the sense that they embody a fundamental part of the universe. For Example, Authority embodies universal structure, Power embodies the transfer, of all energies, Memory embodies all knowledge etc etc. Theyre all fragments of a greater being. Especially as they refer to themselves as "God's X" (God's Body, God's Memory...). The way I interpet the cosmology is that the Arbiters watch over each Apostle pair, like how Authority and Power are overseen and superceeded by Order, who makes sure the laws of physics dont get all wonky and cause the universe to collapse. The Arbiters themselves are still fragments of God, just bigger pieces than the Apostoles. The True God of the setting would be something like all the Arbiters and Apostoles combined.
- Apr 17, 2024
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Could be. I do think the Eye has more of a connection to the MC than it does the Third and Fourth. There's some implication that it and the MC are two pieces of the same being. It says "who can you trust, if not yourself" to him, but also bemoans getting stuck with him. There's also the judge monster in the Truth dream saying that the MC is incomplete, and if you merge with the Eye it's described as becoming complete. I don't know how some ancient proto-god supermonster and the MC are two parts of the same being, but that seems to be what's suggested.
As for it not liking being around matter, that seems to be a case of it being confused and not being able to recognize its surroundings. It perceives the matter as being born from it, but having gone through changes it doesn't understand, so everything is uncanny and unpleasant to it. Maybe it's not that it doesn't want things to have evolved, but that it wanted them to evolve a different way?
It could be whatever "bad stuff" syla took in over the years that caused her to fall out of 4ths favor? Them being more "wtf is this" rather than "destroy all" makes sense and is something I hadnt considered but that would also imply that they are "stuck/sealed" in a place that is even "futher" than the immaterial? I mean hell part of the immaterial city so the idea that everything and everyone is so foreign they need to wipe the slate clean (imo) only works if they are sealed and cant see/interact with anything other than MC during his trances (but not his memories of "life"), it could also be that it is only intresrted in its own (as "gods") evolution but then you kind of run into issues with order... they would seek to have order over themselves? only their offspring?