If you liked the anime, I recommend that you read the manga instead. It's much better in every way.
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KyngC
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- Aug 21, 2022
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Yeah pretty sure the Apostles are just pieces of God. During memory section we even see the Apostles say they are part of god. IE God's insight or God's form.
Grimnir098
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- Jan 27, 2021
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There being a distinction between the creator entity and their spawn is irrelevant. They're all still gods.
So how are the Apostles different to the beings referred to as gods (e.g. Zeus, Thor, Vishnu, Perun, etc) in our mythologies, such that we shouldn't call them gods?
Seems like you just don't like them being referred to as gods because it puts them on the same level as your god (Yahweh). Not a very good reason for anyone who doesn't follow an Abrahamic religion to not refer to them as gods.
One_Black_Sun
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- Mar 27, 2020
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Arbiters were the things the Apostles were before they split into twins. 6 became 12. It's very much unknown what the Eye actually is, but people theorize a lot. It could be the Arbiter the MC is meant to be - the Evolution - trying to break free, or it could just be the MC's monster side; there's no real concrete answer, and the dev always answers halfheartedly.
We don't really have a lot of information on them, but they seem to be pre-apostle gods that we suspect were composite beings made up of sets of twin Apostles. It's just an out-of-universe theory not confirmed by characters in story. However, considering the eye's apparent influence over Body and Memory, it possessing a form of acausality that let remember events across Dead Ends and the Arbiters constantly coming up in the plot, we heavily suspect the eye is one.
Further lending evidence to the theory is the existence of Order, a power that relies on inheritance and mastery over both Authority and Power's traits that just straight up lets you rewrite the laws of the universe. The power is mentioned by Aglaecwif to be supremely powerful but require an impractical amount of energy to use. A power of that level would be difficult for a superhuman to use, but not for the eye, which has shown itself to possess near limitless access to Monster Power though a connection to the Higher Plane, where the divinity of the Superhuman universe's true forms reside. When the MC connects to each Apostle on the paths to god in the immaterial plane, each set of twin apostle's description mentions a repeating theme. Authority and Power both mention Order, but the other twin sets - listed in ascending numerical order - mention Evolution, Infinity, Soul, Paradox and Chaos. Thus we suspect that the eye is not only an Arbiter, but the Arbiter of Evolution specifically, trying to reconstitute itself through a near perfect inheritor of its divided traits.
obibobi
Active Member
- May 10, 2017
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You're looking at it too mechanically, a story isn't an instruction manual, how you handle things changes the tone of the story, like how you depict a monster, not scary in this because its from the perspective of a super powered guy with regeneration but if the story was told from the perspective or a powerless woman it would be a lot scarier.
A deity in a story, being left vague and being far removed or only influencing events from a distance can be this mysterious force.
Did I miss a sadist tag somewhere? This SIN twins storyline is fucking awful and makes no sense in world outside "author wanted this to happen". You're telling me the batch of test subject kids are just chillin with the son of their creator/tormenter letting him do the same shit? Lmfao oooooooook
Tanos create them and process was different. Point is - they were starving orphans and he make them strong and rich
Grimnir098
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- Jan 27, 2021
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I'm pretty sure it's shown that the kids (Cole aside) actually had a pretty positive impression of Tanos during the time Bramon was experimenting on them.
It's possible they're unaware (again, with the exception of Cole) what is being done to Amber and Liz.
Grimnir098
Member
- Jan 27, 2021
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You haven't told me anything I don't already know.
If you're trying to make a point about the Apostles, I suggest actually making it instead of beating around the bush.
Landro2340
Newbie
- Jul 13, 2022
- 76
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Anyone else feel the MC will have to eat Syla (Memory) and Ella (Body) in order to reach completion?, while Syla is dead, she hinted that her corpse is intact and its possible HERO has it (Im guessing). In Ella's case, we've been hinted that there will be a fight between her and the MC in the future, I assume it will be like Kenny/Bailey/Danica/Jake where the option to eat her will show up.
I'm not sure about Syla, but I've definitely considered that there was a probable future where Ella lets the MC consume her after realizing her plans go through, which is probably on a corruption path.
Landro2340
Newbie
- Jul 13, 2022
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I doubt she will just let it happen, like everything concerning her, she will fight the MC as a final test for it. It's the only reason I can think of why she tried hard to get MC strong with multiple tests before HERO got her. Corruption path or not.
Jonathan Y
Active Member
- Dec 1, 2020
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She wanted him to be as strong as possible because Ella serves the 3rd and 4th Apostle, and they, like all Apostles seek a worthy avatar, though they seem to be picky since they want their chosen to inherit both of their traits, body and memory, which the Mc has.
Right now Ella is the chosen of the 3rd and 4th as I see it, but she cannot be their avatar since she refused to finish the ritual by saving Christie, and because she for some reason simply is unable to inherit both of their traits, which is why she calls herself a failure and in one of the bad ends she straight up drags the Mc before the 4th, presumably for him to be consumed and serve as a avatar for them.
If the 3rd and 4th commanded her or she deems it necessary she would let the Mc consume her, Ella faithfully serves those two and their goals.
Landro2340
Newbie
- Jul 13, 2022
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You know, I have always wondered if that was the case, then why did the following happen:
1) She at the beginning of the game had chosen Jake, James and Kenny. If she was serving the 3rd and 4th, and they wanted an avatar, why bother with those 3 then? During the frat party she even asks herself if it really had to be the MC. Now Jake I understand was a potential chosen for Authority, I doubt Body or Memory would let her chosen (Ella according to you) serve Authority's goals.
2) Didn't she tell the Body to fuck off once she reached LVL 5? That she was going to do things her own way? I don't know, I doubt she serves those two apostles at all and she wouldn't be the first one, we have seen Aos and Sylas not being fond of their apostles, so being a chosen doesn't mean that they have to follow their wishes. The 6th wants Aos killed after all.
With that being said, it would be dissapointing to not have a final clash between Ella and the MC, regardless of their relationship (hateful or romantic). I feel Ella herself could become the avatar of evolution since she can eat monsters/humans the same way the MC does. If MC loses that fight she could eat him and become evolution.
Uriel ☁
Well-Known Member
- Nov 28, 2017
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Ella's doll will consume Ella's dead body and regain her normal form. She still won't have all her memories and her previous lvl5 strength, but will be more akin to a lvl4. That way she won't have deus ex knowledge and she'll be in the power range of MC and the gang.
Much later in the story she'll have the natural lvl5 evolution that OG Ella never had (she used the serum) and regain all her memories.
Just my theory.
Much later in the story she'll have the natural lvl5 evolution that OG Ella never had (she used the serum) and regain all her memories.
Just my theory.
Jonathan Y
Active Member
- Dec 1, 2020
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Well, first James and Kenny were monsterfied spawn of the Myniak, and the Myniak is a descendant of either the 3rd or 4th, this makes sense since you can make that giant Myniak submit to you if your corruption is high enough, and when it submits it sees either the 3rd or 4th in your shadow and it submits.
As to why Ella bothers with Jake....it's because whilst she is the chosen of the 3rd and 4th she, atleast on the surface, serves the goals of all Apostles, which is to find a perfect avatar through a perfect spawn.
This is true for most chosen other than Aos, Valravn and Sylla, they all are exclusively loyal to their creators but they serve the common goals of all Apostles in one way or another. So yes, whilst the Apostles have some rivalry and grudges between them ( as seen if you consume Jake, you see the first quarrel with the 3rth and 4th ), I think all Apostles at the surface work towards the same goal, so yeah I think Body and Memory would not go out of their way to prohibit their chosen from serving the goals of another Apostle.
This theory that Apostles share the same goal is in my view solidified by the fact that Ella, Aglaeqwif, Eisheath and to an extent, the Rebis, all chosen of different apostles, have a shaky alliance going on and all have helped eachother throughout varios points in the story, Indra would likely also help them if he wasn't such a hardass. If Apostles were so openly hostile to eachother they would not let their chosen work together, but they do, because they have the same goals.
Meanwhile, the outliers are Valravn, the chosen of The Lord Of Dark, who is hostile to all other Apotles and Aos and Sylla who chose to abandon their duty to further the goals of Apostles in exchange for their own personal goals, and paid the price for abandoning their common cause.
And SPOILER FOR THE LATE GAME :
Why do you think Indra, a chosen of Power, would be so offended and hellbent on revenge because Sylla ditched her duty to Memory ? Because Apostles share the same goals, and so do their chosen.
And lastly, sorry but I'm lost here, when did she tell Body to fuck off ? I can't for the life of me remember.
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Landro2340
Newbie
- Jul 13, 2022
- 76
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Well, I am not even sure if it was the Body. When Ella takes the serum, she hears a voice in her head and tells them to go to sleep. My theory is that is the Body making a connection with her, perhaps telling her she isn't the chosen one to become evolution or it could be something else.
Also, I wouldn't put Aglae serving the Apostles, she wants a child that's able to kill the gods. As to who does she consider the gods beats me. She, along with the Rebis are helping Ella because she stole their hearts. Eishet IIRC showed up out of nowhere and decided to help, perhaps being told by Tanos.
TL;DR: Ella and the rest are going with their own agenda, none of them seem that fanatical to their apostles, the exceptions being the overgrown bird and Indra. But hey, I could be proved wrong by the developer later on. If only we weren't stuck in this Monster World...