King_In_Yellow
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- Jul 28, 2017
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- Thread starter WeirdWorld
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Is it just me or does Ella give me some serious Batman Beyond vibes here?
Or maybe 'Do the Evolution', which, all things considered, may be more fitting.
God the nineties were wild in the best sense.
Blaze_Lumini
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- Dec 29, 2020
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So the apostles come in pairs, the first six Apostles embody complementary concepts while the next six embody opposing concepts. The game itself states that the 1st (Authority) and 2nd (Strength) combined make the power/concept of "Order", arguably the strongest power. I've also seen in this chat thread that people mention "Evolution" (3rd/body and 4th/mind combined) as well as "Paradox" (9th/Truth and 10th/Fantasy combined).
My questions are:
-Are Evolution and Paradox legit names/concepts or are they fan-made?
-What are the combined names for 5/6, 7/8, 11/12?
-Are the supposedly six Arbitors related to these six combined concepts/powers or are they a completely different subject altogether?
-(This one is more food for thought) Does the fact that the last 6 Apostle pairs are opposing concepts make for more volatile concepts?
My questions are:
-Are Evolution and Paradox legit names/concepts or are they fan-made?
-What are the combined names for 5/6, 7/8, 11/12?
-Are the supposedly six Arbitors related to these six combined concepts/powers or are they a completely different subject altogether?
-(This one is more food for thought) Does the fact that the last 6 Apostle pairs are opposing concepts make for more volatile concepts?
KyngC
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- Aug 21, 2022
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1. They are most likely canon.
2. 5/6 is infinity, 7/8 is soul, and 11/12 is chaos
3. Most likely
4. This is a unconfirmed but the first Aribter being named Order and the last being Chaos, leads credence to this theory so maybe.
TheShelly
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- Dec 20, 2020
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The names of the Arbiters are regarded as pretty much canon, since they all appear ingame. If you go back to the Dream Paths sections, you will see that the Apostle Pairs always include a random Capitalized word in their statements when referring to themselves. These words are:
Order - for the 1st and 2nd
Evolution - for the 3rd and 4th
Infinity - for the 5th and 6th
Soul - for the 7th and 8th
Paradox - for the 9th and 10th
Chaos - for the 11th and 12th.
It should also be noted that all the evidence is circumstantial and no real straight answer is expected to be given anytime soon.
Circumstantial in a way. However, Order has been around even before the paths of god descriptions, which lends a lot of credence to this theory.
Specifically, since Aglaecwif mentioned Order being the strongest power (and as such, existing), and the exact same word repeating in the paths of god of both the apostle traits she said it is comprised of, AND the fact that there are consistent repeating words in the other apostle pairs which are framed in the same way, means this is definitely deliberate.
And, since these repeating words are framed in the same way as an existing power, it's pretty safe to assume they exist as powers themselves.
Zolrazz
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- Jan 1, 2024
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I really hope that Weird doesn't do as many authors do and throw Eye aside after this
Even if it's not much, I hope that we'll meet Eye in the future so that we can answer some of our questions and confirm other things. After that, any kind of worry or fear has greatly diminished, an ally? Maybe
An enemy? Very difficult to happen, he literally became a persona: I am thou, thou art I
Dinoflaggelate
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- Apr 17, 2024
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We'll probably see it again when the MC evolves to level 4. It's showed up the last two times he evolved. And it said that it gets more coherent with every evolution of the MC's, so it should be able to answer some questions about what it is next time.
lorkdubo
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- Aug 19, 2022
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His level is way above the people right now. I bet he will become relevant in the late part of the story
RabbidSupreme
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- Aug 1, 2024
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We don't have to worry about that, the eye has always been relevant and the fact that it's first thing we see after getting all our memories back means it's all the more so. It said that it needs more evolutions to get it's mind back and MC will more than likely evolve again soon
Ddlc
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- Jun 22, 2017
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If Henri is a genetic chimera, then that's the explanation for having two completely different sets of powers (Truth, Fantasy).
On Mc's case, he was both infected by Body/Memory directly, and has a great compatibility with both, thus being a good candidate for Evolution. So maybe it's not just interesting coincidence in the long run in Henri's case, but rather the explanation for why he is arbiter material.
I agree with the general idea however, we are indeed basically grasping with the amount of information we have at the moment.
You know I didn't really think about it, but if Henri is a genetic chimera, that makes him rather similar to Liz and Amber. It also means that Henri has that "twin boost" Tanos was so obsessed over.
Ddlc
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- Jun 22, 2017
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That being an explanation as to why he evolved so fast, the moon twins were super fast too. (even if a week from 1 to 5 like Henri is pretty crazy).
Dinoflaggelate
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- Apr 17, 2024
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Indeed. Tanos actually tells Liz that his research on twins was inspired by a genetic chimera superhuman that his father had access to. It could be someone else in H.E.R.O. that we haven't met yet, but Henri seems the most likely of all the characters we have.
I'm like 95% sure Tanos is talking about Henri as the chimeric twin 4% Deus 1% some random we haven't met yet. The only thing that gives me pause on it being Henri is when Tanos says "you wouldn't be able to tell from looking at him, but truly, he was one of the most remarkable specimens I'd ever seen." Henri is many things but normal looking isn't one of them. Deus on the other hand gets mistaken for a regular human by the eye so he fits that little description better and theres clearly something unique about Deus too... but thats about as far as it goes. Nothing else about him makes sense for it so Henri still seems like a much better match, especially since it gives us the best explanation so far for how he got to level 5 so quick if his evolutions double. Tanos also describes the twin as a "Superhuman unlike any other" which fits much better with Henri too since Deus has Zack as someone like him (on the surface anyway) Tanos probably just meant you can't tell he's a chimeric twin by looking at him, which you can't, but god knows how you would tell that anyway lol
One_Black_Sun
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- Mar 27, 2020
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The "you wouldn't be able to tell from looking at him" could be that Henri looks like a crackhead clown that might smell like a clown's septic tank. In other words, he doesn't look dangerous in the Superhuman sense.
Yep. Presumably, evolving once counted as both him and his twin evolving, and since they're both one, that boosted him four levels instantly.
Henri evolved 4 times in as many nights, so he evolved to lvl5 in 4 days, not one night. Also, you don't need to get infected by both the parents to get the split trait(on a side note, it was never shown that MC was infected by both 3rd and 4th), since Jake was only infected by 1st, but he still had the potential to inherit Order.
Blaze_Lumini
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- Dec 29, 2020
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Went back and re-read bits about Ella's background. I was curious about how quickly she evolved. There is enough material to make a decent guess about her history, with a lot of the scenes adding context to each other.
Ella timeline:
-At age 13 she ran away from home and eventually fell in with a group that was hired to participate in clinical trials for Tanos Xanthe. Having first met the MC here. Clinical trials were actually for pill lure and she was attacked by several monsters and became superhuman.
-At some point between 13-14 she evolved to level 2. She was introduced to her future wards, defeated them all in combat despite them also being level 2, and bonded with them. Some months later she escaped from Tanos control.
---While the MC has no memories of it, Ella stated that when the MC ran away for a month after his mother's death the MC spent that time with Ella's group. Other Ella memories hint that She and the MC are the last remaining...Whatever that means.
-At age 14, during middle school, Ella's parents were murdered under unknown circumstances. She disappeared for a few weeks after that and when she returned she had fully assumed a new form and personality.
-At some point (14~), before middle school graduation, she started showing signs of hearing voices. During her middle school graduation party, she evolved to Level 3 after massacring the whole student body minus Christie, though the trance/split personality tried to kill Christie but was stopped by Ella. After this, Christie said Ella was emaciated and was itching to leave the place after the massacre so Ella followed Christie to another school.
-(15~18) Before MC secret identity reveal Ella stated she was stuck at Level 4 for years before ascending to Level 5. Upon reaching level 4 she created the Ella doll.
At age 20 she stole Evolution Serum to evolve to Level 5.
Any comments or corrections? (also remember that Ella's age upon game start was retconned from 21 to 20)
Ella timeline:
-At age 13 she ran away from home and eventually fell in with a group that was hired to participate in clinical trials for Tanos Xanthe. Having first met the MC here. Clinical trials were actually for pill lure and she was attacked by several monsters and became superhuman.
-At some point between 13-14 she evolved to level 2. She was introduced to her future wards, defeated them all in combat despite them also being level 2, and bonded with them. Some months later she escaped from Tanos control.
---While the MC has no memories of it, Ella stated that when the MC ran away for a month after his mother's death the MC spent that time with Ella's group. Other Ella memories hint that She and the MC are the last remaining...Whatever that means.
-At age 14, during middle school, Ella's parents were murdered under unknown circumstances. She disappeared for a few weeks after that and when she returned she had fully assumed a new form and personality.
-At some point (14~), before middle school graduation, she started showing signs of hearing voices. During her middle school graduation party, she evolved to Level 3 after massacring the whole student body minus Christie, though the trance/split personality tried to kill Christie but was stopped by Ella. After this, Christie said Ella was emaciated and was itching to leave the place after the massacre so Ella followed Christie to another school.
-(15~18) Before MC secret identity reveal Ella stated she was stuck at Level 4 for years before ascending to Level 5. Upon reaching level 4 she created the Ella doll.
At age 20 she stole Evolution Serum to evolve to Level 5.
Any comments or corrections? (also remember that Ella's age upon game start was retconned from 21 to 20)
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It might be that evolutions can't happen truly simultaneously, and are instead queued one after another and start after the previous ends. His four might've just lasted four nights. It is a stretch, but according to everything else we know, he should've gone to level 5 all at once. Or maybe that line is outdated.
As for twin traits, Ella makes it clear that MC having both Memory and Body from the start is unique, so it's safe to assume there's some way to gain the twin trait of your apostle trait after being infected. Maybe a ritual of some sort, or maybe it happens naturally at evolution. Maybe, it's a combination of both.
In fact, that might've been what was happening to Ella in her middle school when the fourth took over her to kill everyone. Since the third and fourth wanted her to become the vessel of evolution, they needed her to have both traits, and since her compatibility with Memory was lacking, they needed to fix that and make her a proper inheritor of Memory too.
A similar thing might have been necessary for Jake to inherit Order (though I doubt Authority would initiate it) since not only does he not possess dual traits, but having two random parents that are 100% compatible with the apostles of the same twin pair is ludicrously lucky.