VN Ren'Py Supermodel: Defenders of Desire [v1.2.0] [Belle]

3.80 star(s) 9 Votes

Spyderwraith

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2017
1,306
1,011
You should see if there is a way to link the game rules to the actual battle screen.. I play MTG and Gwent so I'd like to think my ability to learn card game mechanics aren't that horrible, but I often find myself questioning the different phases in the moment when i try to do a thing that doesn't work.

Also see if you can enable a "give up" button for instances where you just want to start over or if you're halfway through with only 2 usable heat because you can't play cards
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,214
10,697
You should see if there is a way to link the game rules to the actual battle screen.. I play MTG and Gwent so I'd like to think my ability to learn card game mechanics aren't that horrible, but I often find myself questioning the different phases in the moment when i try to do a thing that doesn't work.
I would like to add a glossary at some point, but it's not high on my list right now. Most of the rules are covered by simply double-clicking the cards anyway, but some of the big ones (like phases) aren't adequately covered that way.

I'd also like to do a similar "glossary" with characters, terminology, and so on for the VN. Alas, I only have so much time.

Also see if you can enable a "give up" button for instances where you just want to start over or if you're halfway through with only 2 usable heat because you can't play cards
This is on my list of features I want to implement.
 

J_M

Member
Oct 8, 2017
148
185
Belle, I love both reading and playing games but I hate playing a reading game. VNs are a no go for me, sorry, but I consider the genre boring no matter how talented the developer is. In my mind a game should involve my brain in one way or the other, a story is just that... read a few paragraphs and click... what the hell is that???? In my opinion you are wasting your enormous potential and I am truly sorry about it, I know there a loads of people who actually like to click on... I suppose you thought they are a bit more numerous than the rest... I think they are just louder...
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,214
10,697
Belle, I love both reading and playing games but I hate playing a reading game. VNs are a no go for me, sorry, but I consider the genre boring no matter how talented the developer is. In my mind a game should involve my brain in one way or the other, a story is just that... read a few paragraphs and click... what the hell is that???? In my opinion you are wasting your enormous potential and I am truly sorry about it, I know there a loads of people who actually like to click on... I suppose you thought they are a bit more numerous than the rest... I think they are just louder...
Thank you for the feedback, but to be perfectly blunt with you, I don't care. I develop what I want to develop, money be damned. If you ever looked at me as a trend chaser, then I'm sorry. That's just not the way I operate. If I get inspired and have a burning desire to make something, that's what I make.
 

J_M

Member
Oct 8, 2017
148
185
Thank you for the feedback, but to be perfectly blunt with you, I don't care. I develop what I want to develop, money be damned. If you ever looked at me as a trend chaser, then I'm sorry. That's just not the way I operate. If I get inspired and have a burning desire to make something, that's what I make.
Fair enough. Looking forward to your next project and of course, good luck with this one.
 
Oct 23, 2021
55
79
Clicking the picture icon on Michael's Card Tutorial or the girl's Bonus Matches runs into an error.

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Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,214
10,697
Clicking the picture icon on Michael's Card Tutorial or the girl's Bonus Matches runs into an error.
There are no unique pictures to see on those matches, so yeah. The buttons on the problematic matches were removed in Update 3.
 
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dlombu

Newbie
Mar 25, 2017
44
86
If you're wondering what the keywords on a card are, double click on the card and it'll bring up a long explanation.
 

longjohngold

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2020
1,350
2,102
The language is very precise in this game. The word "attack" is only ever used to refer to dragging a card directly on top of a challenge card in the Challenge Phase to damage it. This is the only type of attack you can do. Dealing damage to a challenge card doesn't mean you're making an attack unless specifically spelled out.
Maybe put something in the tutorial that specifically covers still damaging unattackable cards. I'm just letting you know as someone that played the game for the first time it's wasn't initially clear until I tried it out of curiosity.

This is something I put a lot of effort into when designing the game engine. Dragging cards must feel natural and intuitive for the game to be fun. If you find it to be unintuitive, I would appreciate specific feedback about what is causing you trouble so that I can look into making adjustments.
There's just not the space for it once you've got 5 engines down, all the immediate space in front is crammed full and there's just a little sliver of space between the engines. But I do get that if you were able to drag cards more over the engines to play them then upgrading might be a pain. It's a problem because the engine space and play space are the same. I don't know what could resolve this, as even if you uncentered the engines area and had a dedicated play spot off to the side it'd feel odd not being able to play cards directly forward. But all I can say is it felt like there wasn't enough room.

Though thinking about it, why aren't they exclusive. You can never play an upgrade card, and never upgrade with a play card (if you get what I mean). If I try to play a card (that's not an upgrade) even if it's directly on top of an engine why doesn't it just play it anyway.

I have tried to make these "popups" show up as briefly as possible while still being legible. This is a balancing act between informing the player about what is going on (which can otherwise be confusing at times) while not taking up too much of their time. I feel like the current balance is roughly where it needs to be without becoming overly annoying, but again, adjustments are always possible.
At the very least display them at once, there's no need to tell me sequentially that I gained +1 heat and +1 useable heat, pop them both up and off. Or put them off to the side and have it not be "working" so you can look at them or just carry on playing.
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,214
10,697
Maybe put something in the tutorial that specifically covers still damaging unattackable cards. I'm just letting you know as someone that played the game for the first time it's wasn't initially clear until I tried it out of curiosity.
I might put a note about the wording in the card info screen.

There's just not the space for it once you've got 5 engines down
There is plenty of space. It was much trickier in the first release of Snapshot, but now that the overlaps are adjusted, you need to be almost entirely overlapping another card to interact with it instead of playing to the table. But if it's still tricky for you, just drag the card off to one of the sides of the screen. Any card that is played to the top 2/3 of the screen without overlapping another card by more than 75% or so is considered played to the table, so don't feel like you need to hit the shaded area. I used to do this routinely before I readjusted the overlap function. Nowadays, I just drag straight up and pretty much never feel like I risk hitting an Engine/Upgrade.

I mean, just look at this:

Screenshot 2025-01-30 224623.png

These two cards are not overlapping enough for Deep Breath to be considered to be played on top of the other card, which says a lot about how poorly you have dragged a card for it to not hit the table.

Though thinking about it, why aren't they exclusive.
Because some cards can have multiple functions. For example, the Visor card (an Engine) can be played either to the table like a normal Engine or on top of an existing Engine/Upgrade to discard that one and take its place. There will be more cards with multiple abilities like that in the future.

At the very least display them at once, there's no need to tell me sequentially that I gained +1 heat and +1 useable heat, pop them both up and off. Or put them off to the side and have it not be "working" so you can look at them or just carry on playing.
It's trickier than it might sound. Doing what you describe would require a whole new set of effects (and a surprising amount of code) due to how Ren'py works. That's why I try to keep these popups somewhat generic so that they can be reused.
 

wastrel

Newbie
Oct 7, 2017
42
40
"Her clitoris is so sensitive today that it only requires a fraction of her superstrength to achieve the desired effect."

Please tell me this game has a scene in which her clitoris is not sensitive and she has to give it her all.
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,214
10,697
"Her clitoris is so sensitive today that it only requires a fraction of her superstrength to achieve the desired effect."

Please tell me this game has a scene in which her clitoris is not sensitive and she has to give it her all.
There is a reason it was phrased like that. The story will get into the details later.
 
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Legal1709

Member
Aug 25, 2019
177
231
I love Long Live the Princess, it was one of the first games I ever played and it has a special place in my heart but this right here? Oh boy, a wall of texts/monologues that are there just to stall for game time and the minigame was kinda meh, this is just sad for me, hope the game improves but idk how that can be done, good luck I guess
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,214
10,697
a wall of texts/monologues that are there just to stall for game time
You're entitled to your opinion, of course, and my game won't be for everyone, but I do take umbrage at this part here. I have a decently solid background in fiction writing and the theoretical knowledge to back that up. I don't write filler. That's one of the deadly sins a writer can commit, and I know to avoid it. Nothing here is written to stall for time. If a passage of text appears in this story, it is there for a damn good reason, even if you might not have the underestanding of the plot needed to contextualize it yet.

Criticism is fine, but keep it respectful, please.
 

Svoben

Newbie
Sep 19, 2017
65
160
This one's been sitting in my "to be played" pile for a bit and I finally got around to giving it a go. I like it a lot! The card is pleasantly addictive, and the story has me sufficiently hooked although none of the potential LIs has totally won me over the way Evelyn, Primrose and Callie did right from the jump.

I don't think the very opening flash-forward snippet really added anything to the narrative and mostly just annoyed me; the story takes long enough to get into as it is without an unnecessary snippet that the players have no context for whatsoever. But that's a pretty minor gripe; mostly I was fine with the storytelling, the card game's what I have the most thoughts about.

First, for reference for anyone who's struggling with card game, and for Belle's reference for maybe balancing things, I'll share the deck I used to beat all three supers' shoots on Insane difficulty with:

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Some thoughts in no particular order:
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Oh, and since this is a bug report rather than a comment on gameplay mechanics I'll separate it out from the bullet-point feedback: clicking on the "view photos" button for either Vanguard's or Seraphim's "Bonus Match" brings up a Ren'Py error message dump and ultimately forces you to quit the game. edit: okay, I see this has already been addressed for the next update.

Anyways, the core of the card game's really solid, like I said I found it very addictive and burned quite a few hours on it without even realizing how much time had passed. Which is very promising! I look forward to seeing how it develops.
 
Last edited:

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,214
10,697
1. As you can see from the decklist, I focused very heavily on efficient ways to destroy challenges and very, very little on heat generation. At higher difficulty levels, destroying challenges before they overwhelm you is extremely hard and heat generation is....still pretty easy. Probably the first balance tweak I'd suggest, if Insane is genuinely intended to be unwinnable or very-close-to-unwinnable, would be to crank the Heat requirement for victory up to like 80 or 90.
I'm not going to make any such changes just yet. Remember, the three matches available right now (not counting the bonus matches which will get removed in the next update anyway) are the starting matches. They aren't meant to be particularly difficult unless you really crank up the difficulty. Heat requirements will vary based on scenario. In fact, Update 4 should see a couple of scenarios with wildly different win requirements for both Heat and... other things. Balancing this across all scenarios over time as we see how the game plays under different conditions is going to be more valuable than hyper-balancing the intro scenario for each character.

2. Perfect Preparation is a fantastic card and basically an auto-include...especially since the other Epic cards are...juuuust barely playable.
It's meant to be good but also situational, and I expect that its value will decrease as more Epic cards get added to the game. Remember, you can only include 2 Epic cards per deck, and Perfect Preparation is balanced around becoming nearly useless once you're out of the first turn whereas the other cards serve as incredibly powerful attack cards even when you can't play their regular effects.

Having said that, I'm sure the other Epic cards can do with some tweaking. I'm not 100% happy with them.

3.Only Us, OTOH, might need nerfing. I don't think I've beaten Insane on any shoot without getting it in play.
Perhaps. Keep in mind that I will never balance anything around Insane difficulty. Insane is a bonus. Any other difficulties leading up to it are more interesting.

4. Everything is a Nail is also really important; it might be too good at only Skill 2. Also, this may or may not be intended, but Everything is a Nail turns Vanguard's "Immovable" card into a usable attack which makes it really easy to deal with/get rid of a card that seems intended to be dead weight.
"Everything is a Nail" was specifically made with Immovable in mind. It's there to give players options for how to deal with Vanguard, among other things. It's also a kind of situational card in my opinion, with its biggest value coming from being used in a specialized Skill deck. I'll be paying attention to how it's used over time.

7. I find Seraphim's card that makes you discard two cards when drawn extremely tilting.
It's meant to be. This card came out of my desire to have Seraphim's core card represent fire in some way. Fire is both extremely destructive AND hard to control, and that's what I wanted The Flame Beckons to mirror. It hits hard (harder when eventually upgraded) but comes at the cost of hurting yourself (to a lesser extent when she eventually becomes better at controlling it through upgrades). If you want to do Seraphim's matches, you need to prepare for some chaos and the possibility that some of your cards will get lost to it.

8. Ready When You Are is the of this game, I won't be surprised if it ends up getting nerfed as well, though I will be sad.
Funny you should say that when Dark Ritual is exactly the card that inspired it. I'm perfectly fine with cards like Ready When You Are and Deep Breath being main workhorses in most decks. I'm sure I'll add more options later down the line, but they are fine for now.

9. A high, high proportion of my losses on the higher difficulties were all caused by basically the same occurrence: getting 2 copies of the same challenge put into play on the same turn.
Perhaps that's an indication that you are putting all your eggs in one basket and over-specializing?

Anyways, the core of the card game's really solid, like I said I found it very addictive and burned quite a few hours on it without even realizing how much time had passed. Which is very promising! I look forward to seeing how it develops.
Thank you! The next update in particular should be illuminating since it adds 6 new matches for the existing models, some of which are very different from the ones we have right now.
 
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Svoben

Newbie
Sep 19, 2017
65
160
Perfect Preparation is balanced around becoming nearly useless once you're out of the first turn
Sure absolutely, but at least as far as the mechanics of the shoots we've got right now are concerned, having a strong first turn is vastly more important than any other turn in the match.

Having said that, I'm sure the other Epic cards can do with some tweaking. I'm not 100% happy with them.
For a start, I'd suggest dialing down their base cost to ~16 and letting folks see how they feel. They might still need some work (esp. Resourcefulness) but it would go a long way towards making them feel playable I suspect.

Perhaps that's an indication that you are putting all your eggs in one basket and over-specializing?
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but getting 2 copies of the same challenge on the same turn is typically Very Bad no matter what the particular challenge actually is. 2 engine discards, 2 card discards, +6 health to all other challenges, even just a couple huge Guard effects popping up simultaneously; it's really just that doubling the strength of any challenge effect can easily turn it into what's effectively a game over, at least on the difficulty levels where challenge health is boosted.

Thank you! The next update in particular should be illuminating since it adds 6 new matches for the existing models, some of which are very different from the ones we have right now.
Looking forward to it!
 

Belle

Developer of Supermodel & Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,214
10,697
Sure absolutely, but at least as far as the mechanics of the shoots we've got right now are concerned, having a strong first turn is vastly more important than any other turn in the match.
When I did the math while designing that card, I made it so that it would require a competent player to take full advantage of while it would be disadvantageous to a player who doesn't know what they're doing or aren't using a well-designed deck. The idea is that if you can't use this card to get a level 2 Upgrade on the table in the first turn, you will effectively have "whiffed" the card and wasted it. It requires a deck that is prepared to take advantage of its presence. And yes, if you do pull it off successfully, it does give you a big advantage that will help dealing with the higher difficulties (which is intentional).

It was a careful balancing act between making it useful and making it risky, with it leaning more towards the "useful" side due to its nature as an Epic card. I would never have designed a Rare card like this.

For a start, I'd suggest dialing down their base cost to ~16 and letting folks see how they feel. They might still need some work (esp. Resourcefulness) but it would go a long way towards making them feel playable I suspect.
I might as well give something like this a try, I guess.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but getting 2 copies of the same challenge on the same turn is typically Very Bad no matter what the particular challenge actually is. 2 engine discards, 2 card discards, +6 health to all other challenges, even just a couple huge Guard effects popping up simultaneously; it's really just that doubling the strength of any challenge effect can easily turn it into what's effectively a game over, at least on the difficulty levels where challenge health is boosted.
It's the nature of the beast. Supermodel was primarily inspired by the living card games by Fantasy Flight Games and how they do solo/cooperative challenges. Those games can go from manageable to extremely punishing at the flip of a card, and that's part of the charm of the genre in my opinion. On higher difficulties, drawing challenge cards should feel dangerous.
 
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3.80 star(s) 9 Votes