Ren'Py Supermodel Snapshot [v2.1.0] [Belle]

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ThanatosX

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Jan 21, 2017
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Any tips for insane difficulty on this version, can't seem to get a win even drawing the stone cold nuts.

Running this abomination.
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My end goal with the engines is 2 confidence, 1 trust, 1 skill and the +2 hand size.
Extra hand size cycles the deck faster and supplies ammo for hitting the CC. Increased to 2 This Isn't Working, to try and slam engines and cycle faster.

All the removal feels weak and expensive, the extra health on the CC gets you underwater fairly quickly. Changed from trust cycle back to cost down to try and get more in play.
Not overly attached to Nothing Else Matters or Resolve, hard to get into play for their cost while still keeping CC at bay.
Also have Motivation Boost and The Magic Word for extra heat generation, but they could just as easily be some more efficient removal if some existed.
Dropped all the lose heat removal, Quick Break is too expensive to cast. Seduction is decent but the condition is hard to meet on this difficulty.

Deck breaks down to 2 ramp, 2x 2 damage all, 1 of each 6 damage specialised removal, 1x +2 hand, 4x Con1 3x Con2 2x Con3 1x Con4, 2x Tru1 2x Tru2 1x Tru3 1x Tru4, 2x Ski1 2x Ski2 1x Ski3 1x Ski4
Feel like the confidence is necessary to build enough heat to hit 70, but trust with cost down could get more in play faster.

Should I cut more engines and sacrifice some consistency for more of the typed removal, just to try and high roll a win.
Trust4 is extremely strong if you can get it in play. Skill3 do 3 damage for 4 seems efficient too.
The tier4 cards are lead weights sometimes but they still hit for 12 on all type CC.
Should I be running 3x of the ramp and 2damage all cards, they seem efficient and flexible. Deck doesn't care much about burnout, and it doesn't seem to work properly on the This Isn't Working anyway.
 
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Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
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Sep 25, 2017
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This is the kind of deep theory crafting that I'm looking forward to seeing for this game. I can't beat Insane myself, but there's this guy on my Discord server who has managed to beat it relatively consistently, so it can absolutely be done. From what I recall, he did point out that it's easier to win against Vanguard than against Seraphim at the moment due to the chaotic nature of one of the cards Seraphim adds to your deck.
 

ThanatosX

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Jan 21, 2017
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I've only played Vanguard so far, came close to a win a couple of times.
Seems like an instant reset if you hit any active CC turn 1, and even with a good starting hand it's tough going.
Usually ends up with CC cleaned up but not enough heat, or on track for enough heat but not enough removal.
 

Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
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Sep 25, 2017
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One thing that's going to help a lot with the higher difficulties in the full Supermodel is that you'll (eventually) be able to upgrade the model cards so that they're less bad, or even stop being bad and end up being good. I designed the system this way to represent the initial inexperience of each model as they start out and the abilities they gain as they practice. I wanted to somehow show that, no matter how good of a photographer Michael Sharpe becomes, he will always run into trouble with inexperienced models while the experienced ones can sometimes carry a shoot on their own.
 

rb813

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Aug 28, 2018
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One thing that's going to help a lot with the higher difficulties in the full Supermodel
Do you get any benefits in the full game (such as earning upgrade points more quickly) if you're playing on the higher difficulties, or is it just for players who want a tougher challenge?

you'll (eventually) be able to upgrade the model cards so that they're less bad, or even stop being bad and end up being good.
This reminded me of an adult card-battler game called News Desk. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but one thing I really liked in that game was that as the story progresses and your female opponent becomes more corrupted, some of the cards in her deck change to reflect that. But it's not just the effects on the cards that change, it's also the art. When you upgrade the model cards in Supermodel, does the art change at all?
 

Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,091
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Do you get any benefits in the full game (such as earning upgrade points more quickly) if you're playing on the higher difficulties, or is it just for players who want a tougher challenge?
There should be greater rewards for higher difficulties, and in fact, that's how it works right now. There are four different types of booster packs you can get from succeeding at a photo shoot, and each type has a guaranteed card of a certain rarity. Beating a game on Insane guarantees you an Epic card, for example, with increased chances of Rare and Uncommon cards as well. However, the current system is likely to change somewhat towards the end of development as I do a final balance pass.

This reminded me of an adult card-battler game called News Desk. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but one thing I really liked in that game was that as the story progresses and your female opponent becomes more corrupted, some of the cards in her deck change to reflect that. But it's not just the effects on the cards that change, it's also the art. When you upgrade the model cards in Supermodel, does the art change at all?
There are no upgrades yet, so I don't know. I don't suspect the art will change since these upgrades will iterate on the same theme. It's also entirely possible that I keep all the card art "streamer safe" (and if not, the cards that are not safe will have alternative art when used in streamer mode) with the background poses showing the more explicit content.
 
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RockType

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Oct 15, 2017
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I already wrote a review, but wanted to also do the thing that was asked for, which was to give balance-feedback. I've only unlocked half the cards 90%, so I will only be talking about a few cards, and issues.
___
"Turned On": Confidence 3, 11 Cost
"Hand Size -1, gain HHHHHH (6H)"
I think this is the worst card I've unlocked so far.
I get the concept. You're trying to balance the highest amount of Heat you can get from a single card, but your baseline for it, "Flirting", produces 5 for almost the same cost, with no downside.

I would personally cost "1 card" as being equivalent to 1-2 heat. You could round it to "1.5 heat" And from that perspective, this card actually produces "4.5 Heat" while having the only upside be a discounted cost of 1.

What's more, just the reason you would put it in your deck "getting the most heat", is the easiest metric that could get powercrept, and the downside you're putting on the card actually makes it less interesting to play, because after playing it you're actually inhibited from making any more big plays. So it's a card that hurts you both from playing it, and from holding it for a play. And on top of that, I don't think it matches the theme, and I feel like "Turned On" should be a more interesting, thematic effect, since it feels like a central concept.

EDIT: After unlocking "Passion", and having a quick think about it, this card makes more sense, and is now only the second-worst card so far. (Passion, by the way, is easily the best Tier 4-card).
I also think that changing the drawback to "Discard one card as a cost to play", would probably make the card playable, even though it's still not a very exciting or thematic card for me.

Like, here's a concept I came up with for a card that had "Hand Size -1" on it:
"Wrath of God"- "Engine" 3+ ,Cost ~15

Hand Size -1, Deal 12 damage to all CC. (When this card is played)

Turn Start: 1 U (Useable heat).
Now, that's probably not balanced, but the main idea I had is that there should be an incentive to hold that kind of card back, and a payoff that's worth the hefty downside. I also made a concept for an alternate card that's focused on heat, but I won't post that since there's a high-ish chance that it's one of the cards I haven't unlocked.
___

In the same vein, I wanted to talk about "Problem Solver" and "In The Zone". Your "combo"-engines that focus on destroying CC.

These cards have the problem, that they're not very good in the current version of the game, but that doesn't mean that they're bad. Because they scale up based on how many CC are on the board, they can be superior in matches that have especially high numbers of CC. But just because they could be playable, doesn't mean they're good designs.

Compare "In the Zone" to "Turned On". If, in some way, you could destroy 3 CCs without spending a card, then In The Zone produces 7H, which makes it strictly better, and you have a payoff for building around it. However, what's more likely, is that you have to spend at least one card that's a big "board-wipe", or even multiple smaller "Board Wipes", in order to get the same payoff. So "Discard 2 cards, pay their heat-cost, gain 7H", in some idealized scenario. I think, in the most likely scenario, you're doing more for the same result, essentially. There are limited scenarios where you can trigger their benefits DURING the turn they're played, but that would require you to be ahead on heat already, to have enough plays to capitalize on them.

As for solutions, it's difficult to say without knowing everything. I think these types of cards would be prime-candidates, if you were planning to add more status-effects or other minor benefits that are not just strict Heat/card generation. Just having some kind of side-benefit or just making them cheaper or have better attack-stats, would probably make them feel better to play. I was also thinking of some effects like "if you trigger this effect 3 times in a turn, Do X", but that's a bit on the complicated side.
___

This is the thing that I'm probably the most ignorant about, but I hope you pay special attention to cards that allow you to add heat on the final turn. The problem with even the strongest Engine-cards, is that they only feed in at the beginning of the turn, so they can be fairly dead cards on the final turn. One of the ways to make the game feel better and more involved, would be to give the player more control over whether they win or lose, and while these cards and effects would be the most difficult to balance, I think they would give the feeling of being able to "come back" or "play well". My idea for a heat-based design was one that added heat at the beginning, and the end of the turn, for example.
____
Oh yeah, and as a lot of people have probably pointed out, it doesn't seem like Burnout works quite right in this version. I just had a game where I had "Trigger Happy" and "This isn't working" only count their own activations, and not the overall burnout-score. And after that had games where trigger-happy seems to work right, but TIW can't have it's cost changed at all.
___
Keep in mind, that even though most of what I just wrote was negative feedback. I AM ONLY TRYING TO KEEP THIS SHORT. Overall, I think the balance is in a great place, although I don't know if you are maybe thinking too much about the final balance of the game, as opposed to the difficulty-curve for a player playing through the single-player.
____
EDIT:
So, I just got "One More Time" ( cost 6, good attack-stats, Trust 4 req. Effect:"Shuffle your discard into your deck")

All I can say is... was this a cantrip (eg. "draw one") before, and then you got scared?
 
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Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
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Sep 25, 2017
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I really appreciate the feedback and will take my time to give you proper answers. However, I'm going to have to throw in the towel at the moment since I'm suffering from the flu with a very high fever, turning my brain to mush. It's not even been a month since I got rid of covid, sigh...
 
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ThanatosX

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Jan 21, 2017
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The engines mostly felt fine. It was the removal that was straight garbage across the board, except for the 2 damage all for 2. In the mid game where you need the control, has such a high cost, especially since you are trying to balance deployment as well. Was really hurting for not enough damage on insane, some silence or single target destruction would have been amazing.

Maybe you could have a mechanic that uses the turn number to modify additional cost. So it's cheaper to cast earlier, but becomes more expensive in the late game.
 

Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,091
10,276
The engines mostly felt fine. It was the removal that was straight garbage across the board, except for the 2 damage all for 2. In the mid game where you need the control, has such a high cost, especially since you are trying to balance deployment as well. Was really hurting for not enough damage on insane, some silence or single target destruction would have been amazing.
Still sick here, but I can easily respond to this one. Insane difficulty is not intended to be balanced. It is meant for those players who really, really like to dig into the game mechanics and exploit the most broken combos they can find. Many cards will be practically useless on this difficulty, by design. I'm never going to balance the game around Insane except in those cases where it reveals flaws with certain game mechanics, which is what caused me to introduce the Burnout mechanic, for example.
 

ThanatosX

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Jan 21, 2017
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Then the power on the removal is probably fine then, but the costs still seem extreme.
 

RockType

Newbie
Oct 15, 2017
52
289
I'm making what's hopefully my last "big post" about this update. I got all the cards, and found that I had some more thoughts, some of which were short, even.
Don't take anything I say, or the fact that I keep posting, personally. I'm mostly posting because I like posting, and also want to be done posting. :geek:
___

Looking at the balance of the game as a whole:

I think the Skill-branch is currently a little underpowered.
This is mostly because of the branch lacks a "win condition", or enablers for making plays. The thing about "removal" is that you mostly want to optimize for having as little of it as you can, while also having as many cards that help you win as possible. "Confidence" is the win-condition in the current game, and Trust has the playmaking-cards.

It's actually kind of interesting that I did not think this originally. The thing that really swung my opinion of the balance was unlocking the Engine 1-Starters, though I did get them pretty late. Snowballing is really important in this game, so the thing that starts to make the other branches superior is unlocking enough synergistic cards to where you can start to optimize your removal away. As usual with deckbuilders, you only need a minimum-amount of counters if your deck is good enough, and that's why the Skill-cards lose out in the difficulties below "Insane". "Insane" has such high CC-healths that they probably require you to use "Resolve" in some way, at least, but I think that in any good deck, you want your removal to be as efficient as possible.

Some general ideas I had about improving the Skill-branch:

  • The cycle of cards that drain heat for damage are probably overcosted. They could produce at least a little Usable heat, and be fine (specifically in tiers 2 and 3), though I think they would be fine having better atk/cost as well.
  • The "Encouragement"-effect should probably be in the Skill-branch. Yes, it lets you draw cards, but the synergy it has with "Resolve", the Skill Tier 4, makes it the strongest synergy it can have atm, and that kind of pigeonholes deckbuilding for Skill/Trust. This is more of a consideration for the future than an immediate problem. I also think that a card-draw effect of similar strength is just fairly easy to design for the Trust-branch if you want to, and that sharing minor draw-effects to other branches is not a big deal, the same way heat-gain isn't. It's OK to give "Skill" one strong, late-game draw-engine that plays into it's style.
  • If/When you add deck-thinning cards/effects in the game, they should probably go into the Skill-branch, because I think they'll probably be bonkers.
  • Random thought: You could probably even give Skill-cards slightly better attack-stats as a theme. Attacking isn't exactly a thing you want to do at the moment.
____

Okay, no more write-ups. More general thoughts:
  • It is weird that I'm slotting in "Resolve" as an "Attack"-card. I am basically using as a replacement for "Equipment Check" in a deck that doesn't even try to play it, just as removal. It feels weird. There might be a balance-issue there.
  • Trust-cards are really strong, and "Mutual Understanding" is probably the strongest Turn 1-2 in the game. That doesn't mean it's "too strong", but it's still worth acknowledging.
  • At the moment, all of my decks are so reliant on "This Isn't Working", that I think that once it's fixed it will actually raise the difficulty of the entire game.
  • Cycling "Motivation Boost", or another card like it, feels like it's going to be a win-con/playmaker in some deck. Given that, the theme of it feels like a kind of "minor" situation, and I feel like it could be renamed to be some more central event or theme that's hotter.
  • Opinion: Tier 4 cards should help you win the game. I think"Passion" is the best example of that atm, and "Resolve" is really shaky.
  • I think you're on the right track with having a theme of having the theme of making sacrifices in exchange for "ramping" heat in the Confidence-branch. I think that "Forced Discarding" and higher costs would be a better tradeoff over limiting hand-size, except in game-changing cases like "Passion". Of course, in games like Mtg boosting resource-generation is usually done in exchange for "tempo", and what "tempo" means in a game like this could be an interesting idea to explore. Or you could have Confidence just be the only branch that generates notable heat, and be balanced that way by having no need to contrast it.
____

Okay. Done.

I like card games.
 
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Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,091
10,276
Finally starting to come around enough to answer a few questions. There are a lot of them, so I'll probably skip a few.

I think this is the worst card I've unlocked so far.
I get the concept. You're trying to balance the highest amount of Heat you can get from a single card, but your baseline for it, "Flirting", produces 5 for almost the same cost, with no downside.

I would personally cost "1 card" as being equivalent to 1-2 heat. You could round it to "1.5 heat" And from that perspective, this card actually produces "4.5 Heat" while having the only upside be a discounted cost of 1.
(The question is about the card "Turned On")

This card is high up on the list of candidates for redesign for many of the reasons you outline. It had a stronger position in the hierarchy in the game's first release, where it was the strongest Heat earner. That is no longer the case, putting it in the awkward position of no longer feeling like its effects are quite worth the downsides. It will likely get some attention at a later point, but there's no rush.

Like, here's a concept I came up with for a card that had "Hand Size -1" on it:
While I won't use this exact idea, I like the concept you came up with here. In particular, the idea of giving a card a strong instant effect with the downside of it getting stuck to the table (which you can turn into an upside with the correct deck) is intriguing and something I've made a note of. Making the best use possible out of your limited table space is a core mechanic of Snapshot, so adding even more difficult choices to this part of the game appeals to me.

In the same vein, I wanted to talk about "Problem Solver" and "In The Zone". Your "combo"-engines that focus on destroying CC.

These cards have the problem, that they're not very good in the current version of the game, but that doesn't mean that they're bad. Because they scale up based on how many CC are on the board, they can be superior in matches that have especially high numbers of CC. But just because they could be playable, doesn't mean they're good designs.
These cards are a bit premature at this stage of the game and are present mostly to get feedback (such as in this discussion) and to give players an idea of how I imagine the deck economy might work in the future. The intent is for these cards to get more utility as more cards get added to the game, and in particular when new types of matches get introduced, especially those that feature larger amounts of challenge cards to deal with. Because of the variety of matches that will eventually be on offer, this gives these cards a very appealing (theoretically) and situational status. They might very well need more adjustment, but the idea is sound.

But this requires a look at my philosophy behind the grouping of cards in Snapshot, namely the division into Confidence, Trust, and Skill, and what this is meant to mean.

Confidence: Gain Heat and play big, expensive cards.
Trust: Cycle your deck faster and get more value out of your Heat pool. Pummel your opposition with sheer speed.
Skill: Destroy Challenge cards, primarily through powerful, direct card attacks. "Sweepers" that attack multiple cards at once are often available to other categories as well. Skill is more about direct damage.

Basically, while I don't prohibit anything, I have designed the game around the assumption that most effective decks will be primarily built around 2 out of the 3 categories, which means you have to sacrifice one. I want all the types of combinations to be interesting in different ways. Each category has its own focus area and strengths, but there is a caveat here: the game still has only two objectives (gain Heat and control the CC population). With two of the categories (Confidence and Skill, respectively) specifically focused on one each of these objectives, there still needs to be a potential path to that same objective even if you omit the category focused on it.

And that is the purpose behind the cards you mention: to give a Skill-focused deck a way to rapidly gain Heat by doing what it does best (destroy CCs). Confidence cards are meant to be better at earning Heat. The Skill-based variations are designed to open avenues to deal with the lack of Confidence for decks that choose to focus on Skill and (possibly) Trust. If you're doing a Skill/Confidence deck, for example, these cards will not be terribly useful. This is by design. These are necessary options for Skill/Trust decks that might struggle with gaining enough Heat to win and where adding Confidence cards would dilute the deck. Randomly slapping these cards into a deck not built around them is not a good idea and was never meant to be. Some cards will be like this.

This is the thing that I'm probably the most ignorant about, but I hope you pay special attention to cards that allow you to add heat on the final turn. The problem with even the strongest Engine-cards, is that they only feed in at the beginning of the turn, so they can be fairly dead cards on the final turn. One of the ways to make the game feel better and more involved, would be to give the player more control over whether they win or lose, and while these cards and effects would be the most difficult to balance, I think they would give the feeling of being able to "come back" or "play well". My idea for a heat-based design was one that added heat at the beginning, and the end of the turn, for example.
This honestly sounds like a psychological thing rather than a gameplay flaw. You feel like your Engines become pointless on the final turn. This is sort of true and mostly intentional. On the final turn, your Heat-generating Engines will be typically be done with their job, making them prime candidates for crazy Hail Mary's that involve sacrificing them or otherwise using them in ways you might not ordinarily do. The final turn is your last gasp against mounting opposition, and I consider "normal" Heat generation to be over by this point. The intent of the final turn is to give you the freedom to throw everything you have, and then some, at the remaining Challenge cards, without having to worry about next turn's Heat generation.

If you get to turn 10 and lack Heat, you've got a problem. Turn 10 is not intended to rectify that. It is a combat turn, first and foremost.

Sidenote: Turn 10 used to be incredibly dull in the first playable prototype of the game for this reason. Once you got to turn 10, the game was basically over and nothing you did mattered anymore. I realized this during playtesting, which caused me to introduce the mechanic where you get penalty points for failing to destroy all CCs by the end of the game. This made it so that, no matter how well you played from turns 1-9, you'd still have the final turn's worth of CC's to deal with that could threaten to bring your Heat score below the minimum needed to win, and suddenly, turn 10 got exciting again while also being completely different from every other turn in the game. In a good way, at least in my opinion. It's the payoff for getting all the way to the end, your chance to no longer have to hold back.

But your Heat? That's mostly a done deal at this stage. And if you have so much Heat that even 3 Challenge cards on the table won't bring you below the minimum, then congrats! You've already won.

Oh yeah, and as a lot of people have probably pointed out, it doesn't seem like Burnout works quite right in this version. I just had a game where I had "Trigger Happy" and "This isn't working" only count their own activations, and not the overall burnout-score. And after that had games where trigger-happy seems to work right, but TIW can't have it's cost changed at all.
Could you elaborate on this, please? I'm not sure exactly what's going on here, but if it's a bug, I need to have as much data as possible so that I can fix it.

Keep in mind, that even though most of what I just wrote was negative feedback. I AM ONLY TRYING TO KEEP THIS SHORT. Overall, I think the balance is in a great place, although I don't know if you are maybe thinking too much about the final balance of the game, as opposed to the difficulty-curve for a player playing through the single-player.
I wanted the current version of Snapshot to be reasonably (but not excessively) balanced. I plan to have an interactive tutorial that hand-holds the player through the game mechanics in a later version of the full Supermodel, but sadly, I won't have the time to add it to the first version.

So, I just got "One More Time" ( cost 6, good attack-stats, Trust 4 req. Effect:"Shuffle your discard into your deck")

All I can say is... was this a cantrip (eg. "draw one") before, and then you got scared?
What do you mean? I started designing this card because I wanted a discard pile shuffler for people who wanted to optimize their deck cycling. It was always intended to be close to what you see today, but several important game mechanics (such as drawing specific cards from your deck) are still missing in the current version of Snapshot, making "One More Time" less useful than it has the potential to be in the future.

On the other hand, I've seen it used in decks used against Insane, so...

More answers to come.
 

Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,091
10,276
Then the power on the removal is probably fine then, but the costs still seem extreme.
A note on this: The sweeper cards (ie. cards damaging multiple CCs) are intended to be really expensive. Destroying CCs is meant to be the domain of Skill cards. You are not meant to play the big sweepers regularly. Instead, they are intended for the late game when you have either a good amount of Heat from Confidence cards or cheaper card plays through Trust. If you have neither, then most sweepers will be out of your reach by design. They are supposed to be good, but if you're going to replace the direct damage from Skill cards with sweepers, it's going to cost you. On the other hand, sweepers tend to have good attack attributes to give them some value as direct attackers for when you can't use their full power.

Skill decks are supposed to get around this problem through brute force with their direct attacks, by comparison. Such decks are usually not intended to focus on sweepers outside of those that are specifically built for Skill decks and clearly marked as such, like Concentration/Close the Shutters/Only Us, or Tripod.

I think the Skill-branch is currently a little underpowered. This is mostly because of the branch lacks a "win condition", or enablers for making plays. The thing about "removal" is that you mostly want to optimize for having as little of it as you can, while also having as many cards that help you win as possible. "Confidence" is the win-condition in the current game, and Trust has the playmaking-cards.
What deck composition did you have in mind when you wrote this? Remember, the idea is that you should combine Skill with one other category, either Confidence or Trust, and that this will make up for its shortcomings (and vice-versa). The idea behind Skill cards is that they greatly streamline the removal of CCs, allowing you to spend fewer cards for direct attacks with greater impact.

The cycle of cards that drain heat for damage are probably overcosted. They could produce at least a little Usable heat, and be fine (specifically in tiers 2 and 3), though I think they would be fine having better atk/cost as well.
Some of these cards seem popular in high-level decks I've seen, so I'm not so sure. Balance is difficult in a game like this, and a lot of this stuff is just my best guess (and math) before tossing it out there for the community to demolish. Currently, the data from users is a little too light to draw big, sweeping conclusions about game balance. Even your opinions, well-thought-out as they are, reflect your personality and playstyle and might not (or might) represent an objective truth about the game. Even so, every bit of input is both valuable and useful to me as I move forward with the game.

The "Encouragement"-effect should probably be in the Skill-branch.
No, it's placed exactly where I wanted it. This card is specifically made for Trust/Skill decks and should feel uninteresting to any deck that doesn't go that route. While there is only a limited selection of cards in the game right now, I intend to make a lot more cards that are meant for particular deck synergies.

As this game grows, I want to see more combos and synergies start to materialize. Coming up with interesting card combinations is part of the joy of a deckbuilder, after all. For now, and as mentioned, the card selection is too light for this to feel right. New cards (and new card mechanics) will be added steadily and regularly during the development of Supermodel, so things should get better over time. Think of Snapshot as a vertical slice of what is to come.

If/When you add deck-thinning cards/effects in the game, they should probably go into the Skill-branch, because I think they'll probably be bonkers.
Why should they go there? Such cards belong in the Trust category, in my opinion. The Skill category is not meant to feel agile or fast, at least not by itself.

Random thought: You could probably even give Skill-cards slightly better attack-stats as a theme. Attacking isn't exactly a thing you want to do at the moment.
Attacking is something you must do, indeed, and this was always the way it was meant to be. From the second I came up with the game's design, I wanted the core gameplay loop to revolve around deciding which cards in your hand you wanted to play each turn, and which you had to "sacrifice" to deal with the ever-present CC problem. You don't want to attack; you have to.

As for the attack values, this is something I quickly learned that I have to be very careful about. There used to be greater variance in these, but I quickly came to realize that this didn't work quite as intended, with some cards included in decks not because of their effects (which were never used) but because of their attack values, leaving the actual Attack cards behind. It's a tricky balance, but one that I feel works well right now. Skill cards are better at attacking, not because of their inherent attack values, but because they are (or should be) supported by Engines that bolster their capabilities. Again, there is likely going to be a lot of balancing here too, going forward, but my impressions and those from players is that Skill cards are highly attractive in almost any deck. Just not in isolation.

It is weird that I'm slotting in "Resolve" as an "Attack"-card. I am basically using as a replacement for "Equipment Check" in a deck that doesn't even try to play it, just as removal. It feels weird. There might be a balance-issue there.
This is perfectly fine, and another decision I grappled with during the design of the Epic cards. Here is my philosophy on card rarities in Supermodel:

Card rarity is not intended to represent how good a card is. You'll find yourself regularly using Common cards even in decks used against Insane difficulty, and this is exactly what I want. Those are your workhorse cards, the ones that are straightforward to both use and understand. You'll find that the Common cards are simple, both in presentation and execution, while producing effects that are generally handy.

As you move into the Uncommon tier, attack values might increase slightly and some card effects may be (slightly) better than for Common cards, but I keep this rare. For stuff like, say, "Clear Instructions" vs "Empathy", the Uncommon card is clearly better than the Common one, but you'll still be encouraged to use both types if you intend to build a Confidence deck with Heat-generation in focus since you will want more than 3 level 1 Confidence cards in that case and you can't bring any more than that of Empathy. The idea here is to give new players a clear feeling of progression with the cards that are straightforward upgrades (you don't have to be an expert on the game to understand the Clear Instructions -> Empathy improvement) while also introducing cards and effects that are slightly more complex and might not be so straightforward in how they should best be employed in a deck. As you start to use Uncommon cards in your deck, your skills with the game are growing and you, as a player, should be getting more confident about experimentation as the game drip-feeds new mechanics to you. At this stage, the game encourages you to start specializing in strategies that are very different from those employed by your starter deck.

With Rare, things take a turn. Cards here are rarely direct upgrades over lower-tier cards, and they often do not have obvious use cases. On the other hand, if you can find a way to slot them into your deck (which should be done with care), they can be immensely powerful. But these cards are deliberately designed to require a greater understanding of the game's mechanics to get the most out of them, at least in the majority of cases. For Rare cards and up, you are limited to one copy of each card in your deck, so I allow these cards to have slightly better attack values without fear that it will topple game balance.

Epic cards are the most unusual of the bunch. On a surface level, they are extremely powerful, capable of turning an entire match around all by themselves... if you can get them on the table. These cards will be wasted on a new player, who would be unable to even play them, to begin with. Future Epic cards might be extremely complex in what they do and what they offer. Right now, there are only three Epic cards in the entire game. There will be more, and with that, you will see a new limitation: Your deck can contain a maximum of 3 Epic cards at any one time. Yeah, they're powerful (extremely so), but also super-hard to play, with a significant risk that they'll be a "dud" in your deck for that match, used only for their attack values. The limit of three Epic cards in a deck is there so that I can freely give these cards rather extreme attack values without upending card balance too much. You'll still want dedicated Attack cards to complement your Epics (and just imagine what an Epic Attack card might look like!). These increased attack values are there partly to make up for the fact that the vast majority of times, you'll be unable to play Epic cards for their effects when you draw them to your hand.

Trust-cards are really strong, and "Mutual Understanding" is probably the strongest Turn 1-2 in the game. That doesn't mean it's "too strong", but it's still worth acknowledging.
Good to know, and not unexpected. The strength of Trust was always intended to be speed, and that includes in the opening turns.

At the moment, all of my decks are so reliant on "This Isn't Working", that I think that once it's fixed it will actually raise the difficulty of the entire game.
I would really like to know what's not working about it.

Opinion: Tier 4 cards should help you win the game. I think"Passion" is the best example of that atm, and "Resolve" is really shaky.
Tier 4 cards are, for the moment, relegated to Epics, and you can read my philosophy for them above. My impression based on earlier comments from playtesters is that these are all extremely powerful, with "Resourcefulness" potentially taking the lead in utility.

I think you're on the right track with having a theme of having the theme of making sacrifices in exchange for "ramping" heat in the Confidence-branch. I think that "Forced Discarding" and higher costs would be a better tradeoff over limiting hand-size, except in game-changing cases like "Passion".
This is entirely possible. Hand size penalties are extremely punishing and should be used with considerable care. We'll see what happens with these effects in the future.
 

ThanatosX

Active Member
Jan 21, 2017
731
442
This Isn't Working doesn't seem to add the burnout cost, so it's just a free cast. About the most broken thing I could high roll with it is a turn 1 energy drink plus a couple of other engines, still not enough to beat insane though.
 

RockType

Newbie
Oct 15, 2017
52
289
Thank you for answering despite the long posts. I obviously do enjoy talking about this, but I don't want to pressure you or anything. It's not like you're obliged to "defend" your design to anyone who asks, especially on this forum. In the interest of sanity, I'll try to give focused responses.
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Confidence: Gain Heat and play big, expensive cards.
Trust: Cycle your deck faster and get more value out of your Heat pool. Pummel your opposition with sheer speed.
Skill: Destroy Challenge cards, primarily through powerful, direct card attacks. "Sweepers" that attack multiple cards at once are often available to other categories as well. Skill is more about direct damage.
One of the positive feedbacks I didn't give you, was that you've communicated these identities and themes really well in your design. I am commenting on pretty minor details of the design of your cards and your systems, because I think I can intuit from your work the intentions you had in mind while creating them. And that is just a mark of effective design, not that I don't also get things wrong, or weigh some things differently.
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If you get to turn 10 and lack Heat, you've got a problem. Turn 10 is not intended to rectify that. It is a combat turn, first and foremost.
I think here, I might've worded myself a bit poorly. I don't disagree with anything you say here, and I think you wrote out a very good description of what the "normal" experience of the game is intended to be, and how most games should play out within this framework. It is the correct way to view the pacing of a "loss" in the game the same way you can see a game of chess or tetris being lost from a mistake made long before the game reaches an end-state.

What I was saying was just that I thought making plays up to the last turn felt good, and that feeling could have some potential if it was explored through some future cards or specific archetypes. Making a very powerful deck already works in a way where your powerlevel ramps up the further the game goes and the end of the game is when you should have the most resources active. While it should not be the focus of the game, or require high-level changes, leaving space open for a type of deck to generate heat outside of the standard start-of-turn-engines, would be an interesting idea, though it would obviously need to be restricting in other ways. As I said, it's tricky to balance, even conceptually. Recursive things often are.
You're quite right that it is a "psychological thing", but the psychology is part of what I'm giving feedback about.

Related to this, is of course the idea of a card that extends the game by an extra turn, which is probably something you've already thought about.
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::Bug:: Could you elaborate on this, please?
Sure. I wasn't being very clear, because the issue I noticed originally was a bit of a false report. I did not dream "Trigger Happy" showing wrong values, but since it didn't happen again on further testing, I assume I just had cost-altering cards on the field I didn't account for, or something.

But I do have two "real" bug reports:
  • "This Isn't Working", as I said, doesn't seem like it can alter it's cost. I assume it's conflicting somehow with the way costless cards are generally coded, and is therefore unaffected by both the Burnout-effect, and CCs that raise it's cost etc. Currently, it's supposed to be costed as 0 and have it's cost raised by burnout. As an aside, it feels great to play at that price, but is also clearly unbalanced in some respect.
  • Unrelated, but the card "Backup Plan" is not functioning consistently for me, on the turn it is played. I have played it many times, and noted that sometimes you can use it's effect after playing the card, and sometimes it doesn't function until the next turn. I am about 80% sure that the bug is that cycling a card on the turn, before playing "Backup Plan", is what is causing it to bug. Fairly annoying, because the interaction is actually quite important to making plays.
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What do you mean? I started designing this card because I wanted a discard pile shuffler for people who wanted to optimize their deck cycling. It was always intended to be close to what you see today, but several important game mechanics (such as drawing specific cards from your deck) are still missing in the current version of Snapshot, making "One More Time" less useful than it has the potential to be in the future.

On the other hand, I've seen it used in decks used against Insane, so...
Not gonna lie, that last part is what has made me doubt myself the most, because my opinion was that the card was obviously bad even for it's intented purpose, and that's why I made it a punchline.

My immediate reaction was just of a card that had had a line of text cut at some point, though it was obvious that this was meant for some types of specific decks that didn't quite have support yet.

To give a serious response to what I thought about it previously, I thought it had so many restrictions put into it both by having a high heat-cost and a board-restriction, with the same immediate impact as "shuffle your deck", and requiring a specific order of events to happen to be useful while also requiring you to draw into it's synergy to work...
That I thought it was an obvious mistake.

Since you pointed out that it's being used in Insane, I can kind of see it. Insane already requires you to set up a very specific board-state by a certain turn, or restart, and so a card that gives you a chance to come back from that may have value, as it enables you to spend your bombs early for removal without fear of having to cycle your entire deck (which I thought would be preferrable previously).

...I was going to recommend either adding the "draw a card" bonus to make it more fun and worth the tempo, or dropping the heat cost somewhere between "free" and "three", so you could afford to play it multiple times per-game without discounts, but now I'm not sure I trust my judgement on this effect. I did not dedicate myself to cracking Insane.
 
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Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,091
10,276
This Isn't Working doesn't seem to add the burnout cost, so it's just a free cast. About the most broken thing I could high roll with it is a turn 1 energy drink plus a couple of other engines, still not enough to beat insane though.
Ah, I see. I think I know what's going on, and if so, it's related to cards with a base cost of 0. It might seem like Heat cost calculation is skipped for cards that do not have a base Heat cost, which means Burnout is never even considered. On my fix list.
 

RockType

Newbie
Oct 15, 2017
52
289
Since it's come up, here's my decklist for the most "proper" deck I've made so far, for tackling "Brutal" and below. I don't think it's very impressive.
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I didn't want to post it for a few reasons. Mostly because I'm not tackling Insane, which I think makes the deck much less impressive. And also because I don't claim to have it optimized even for Brutal, there is probably some kind of tweaks you could make for the high-end removal, and for exchanging a few cards like Coffee for something better.

But basically the shell of this is a Confidence/Trust-deck, that is focused around consistency. The deck is just focused around getting good early turns you can start to snowball off of, and dealing with CC by just spending cards. The removal is tailored around dealing with Skill-challenges, that can't be dealt with with just beating over them with engine-cards. It's also slightly tilted away from confidence, because confidence-challenges feel a little less frequent in the demo.

Still, this is what I imagine I would use to play through single-player. A variation of the best starting cards, that you can tinker removal and draw-engines around for each scenario. This is the kind of freedom you don't have up in Insane, but I kind of look at that difficulty as a semi "puzzle"-mode, that is more luck-based because of it's higher powerlevel, and requires more specialized decks that aim for a very strong specific board and can deal with the increased CC.

I made this deck specifically without using any Skill-cards as a challenge, but I'm not necessarily opposed to ever putting any in. It's just that the "perfect" version of this would probably play one, very efficient skill-engine, and maybe only up-to tier 2. I'm not going to pretend that you're not compromising some ability to deal with CC if you get bad luck. It's just that with more cards and more ability to draw outs, you have more chances to dig yourself out of bad situations long enough to play a boardwipe.
 
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