RPGM Sword Art Online: The Trap of Breath Concealed Magic [Part 2 v0.65] [Fujino]

[4-kun]

This is probably because it kinda loses a lot of the 'spirit' of NTR, even Reverse NTR kinda loses its point here because it doesn't feel like the FMC would be 'winning' anything, it's basically just a slut MC who happens to target couples XD

Suguha's plot here works because both here and even in the source material she DOES have feelings for Kirito, and in both she had more or less accepted that he was happy with Asuna and just lived her life fine with that (Granted in the Fujinoverse she never actually made peace with those/got heartbroken like in Canon because Fujino twisted the fuck out of the timeline and made non-stop plot holes to somehow have Sugou's events have happened WITHOUT Sugu's involvement lol), but then thanks to her 'corruption' she just went full-on Yandere and decided to take him for herself. It works so well because there WAS an emotional attachment between the characters before she even 'snapped', so there is several layers of corruption, from Suguha's own love, one-sided as it was, to her actual relationship with her Onii-chan who kept seeing her as his beloved sister and doesn't know she's riding his dick and daydreaming of getting rid of his girlfriend to have him all to herself one day whenever he's online XP

Granted, the 'feeling' is a bit diminished given that she got not-NTR-ed first and also because the girlfriend in question is an unsatisfied slut who prefers the ugly bastard's dick already, but her having gotten free of Hebishima to get here in the first place already makes it very interesting in itself. However in a 'perfect' Reverse NTR scenario, Sugu would just snap or decide to get Kirito by herself one day without needing to be not-stolen first, and Asuna would legit be perfectly in love and loyal to Kirito so the Reverse NTR is actually 'fully realized' (Is kinda like why you won't really see a 'NTR' doujin where the MC is actually just fucking other girls behind his stolen girlfriend's back, because that would make most people feel it never was NTR at all).

It depends. I would say Suguha, if she were the MC, could still undergo the same development, just with better storytelling for the first part. The MC also doesn't have to be a whore, as usually portrayed in NTR. She could be or just turn into a morally questionable person but still preserve herself for only one man. It's all a matter of how and what you want to portray. It would probably even make more sense, as you said that in the original, it is actually Kirito who is the horny one, so one could just reverse the sexual frustration situation. As I said, many undiscovered possibilities.

 

[SixDates]

This is probably because it kinda loses a lot of the 'spirit' of NTR, even Reverse NTR kinda loses its point here because it doesn't feel like the FMC would be 'winning' anything, it's basically just a slut MC who happens to target couples XD

You know, this is similar to what I think about a lot of NTR content where the heroine getting stolen gets corrupted into some sort of cum dump/ whore. To me, it kind of loses much of the appeal of the whole "stealing" part of the game, since most of the heroines gradually lose their worth the further they get corrupted.

Sure, it's fun to see a capable woman with strong abilities get fucked silly until she is pissing herself unconscious, but if she stops caring about anything else and is nothing more than a hole to get fucked by the end of the story, what did the man who fucked her get? Nothing more than a hole who used to be special.

There is nothing fun about stealing something worthless.

That's why my ideal NTR for SAO would be one where Asuna still was who she was by the end of it, but twisted by her lust over Inoda. At the very least, by appearances she should still be strong in the eyes of others while pathetic in the face of the ultimate power of a ntr universe, a big dick.

 

[stupid_army]

Next update when?

 

[4-kun]

Next update when?

On monday I guess

 

[renjen]

On monday I guess

It could also be next Sat (or Sun depending on where you live) as Update 0.35 he released on April 27th compared to when we were expecting it on the 29th.

 

[kinglionheart]

There is nothing fun about stealing something worthless.

That's why my ideal NTR for SAO would be one where Asuna still was who she was by the end of it, but twisted by her lust over Inoda. At the very least, by appearances she should still be strong in the eyes of others while pathetic in the face of the ultimate power of a ntr universe, a big dick.

Maybe some people like watching something great and beautiful get reduced into a piece of trash. Not kink shaming. I agree I would rather Asuna stay mostly the same if not slight twisted. If I am projecting myself on someone doing all that work to cuck away a woman, I rather at the end have someone worth all the effort. If I am just use and loose the woman at the end, I would rather just use Mind Control powers and skip most of the effort.

 

[laleyka]

does the save is contain all scene?
just wondering like the part one last sex scene? or all POV i was wandering that the last one is only from kirito POV

 

[AlterInfernalAllius]

It depends. I would say Suguha, if she were the MC, could still undergo the same development, just with better storytelling for the first part. The MC also doesn't have to be a whore, as usually portrayed in NTR. She could be or just turn into a morally questionable person but still preserve herself for only one man. It's all a matter of how and what you want to portray. It would probably even make more sense, as you said that in the original, it is actually Kirito who is the horny one, so one could just reverse the sexual frustration situation. As I said, many undiscovered possibilities.

And again, while that's an IDEA, it just loses the point of what most people wants to see in a "NTR story". If Suguha was the main character, the entire plot of her having been blackmailed, fucked and such wouldn't really work at all because it would lose what most people want to see XP Your last point is valid though, it would 100% work if Kirito was the sexually frustrated one, especially because Canonically Kirito and Asuna just can't meet and fuck every other week like Fujino made it seem in his NTR-verse, they live SO far apart that the only reason they still see each other regularly IRL post-SAO is because of school and why we basically only see them having like ONE date IRL alone by themselves in the entirety of the series, even counting side-content that never made it to the anime Meanwhile, Suguha like, literally lives next door to his room, has a better body, and has a national-level kendoka's stamina XD I mentioned it in the past, but it's a shame how little to nonexistent Reverse NTR content exists of SAO because there is a lot of potential for it, especially with how overly perfect KiriSuna's relationship is portrayed and the other girls' silent acceptance of it becomes (Extra so with Sugu living in the same house as Kazuto). I think I only ever saw TWO doujins that were legit 100% reverse NTR, one of Lisbeth at that funnily enough and the other of Leafa in VR.

Almost everyone just wants to see Asuna getting corrupted and fucked/raped and turned into a slut for someone else's dick, while also dedicating no less than a quarter of the work to point out how terrible and inferior Kirito was at sex with the current NTR-man in comparison, sadly, which after like 10 years has gotten beyond stale IMO (And why I think the attempts to 'NTR' the girls beyond Asuna in any kinda SAO work always fall flat and seem more overly focused on making sure to fully ruin Kirito's life all around than the girls actually getting corrupted).

Maybe some people like watching something great and beautiful get reduced into a piece of trash. Not kink shaming. I agree I would rather Asuna stay mostly the same if not slight twisted. If I am projecting myself on someone doing all that work to cuck away a woman, I rather at the end have someone worth all the effort. If I am just use and loose the woman at the end, I would rather just use Mind Control powers and skip most of the effort.

I mean, sadly that's what all Fujino's works end up being, one way or another. Even this one while he's actually dragging the writing to make it last longer (Which ironically has made it feel a lot more unrealistic in other aspects despite giving him way more time to flesh out the world and characters) is clearly aimed to turning the girls into complete sluts in the end, like Kyouko really is whenever she's alone with Inoda despite her words. The only reason they didn't become insta-sluts after being exposed to his dick once even in their attitudes outside of sex is because Fujino wanted to try for a longer and more complex narrative, but it's clear it will happen for the 'main Inoda girls' in the end. Which is also why Suguha's sudden change in plot-focus was both so unexpected and interesting, as it's something Fujino never quite has tried before, but make no mistake, at it's core it IS the same: Suguha was acting like a full-on slut during that 'AV' she made in VR as Leafa with Hebishima. Sure, the 'fresh take' is that she was only doing so and out-fucking him outright because she was fantasizing she was doing it with Kirito and he was actually feeling annoyed at that script, but the 'Fujino TM Complete Slut Attitude' was clearly there, it was just the focus of the character that changed, and the fact that she's the one 'taking the lead' compared to the man because Kirito here is still the 'victim', in the end XD

 

[4-kun]

And again, while that's an IDEA, it just loses the point of what most people wants to see in a "NTR story". If Suguha was the main character, the entire plot of her having been blackmailed, fucked and such wouldn't really work at all because it would lose what most people want to see XP Your last point is valid though, it would 100% work if Kirito was the sexually frustrated one, especially because Canonically Kirito and Asuna just can't meet and fuck every other week like Fujino made it seem in his NTR-verse, they live SO far apart that the only reason they still see each other regularly IRL post-SAO is because of school and why we basically only see them having like ONE date IRL alone by themselves in the entirety of the series, even counting side-content that never made it to the anime Meanwhile, Suguha like, literally lives next door to his room, has a better body, and has a national-level kendoka's stamina XD I mentioned it in the past, but it's a shame how little to nonexistent Reverse NTR content exists of SAO because there is a lot of potential for it, especially with how overly perfect KiriSuna's relationship is portrayed and the other girls' silent acceptance of it becomes (Extra so with Sugu living in the same house as Kazuto). I think I only ever saw TWO doujins that were legit 100% reverse NTR, one of Lisbeth at that funnily enough and the other of Leafa in VR.

Almost everyone just wants to see Asuna getting corrupted and fucked/raped and turned into a slut for someone else's dick, while also dedicating no less than a quarter of the work to point out how terrible and inferior Kirito was at sex with the current NTR-man in comparison, sadly, which after like 10 years has gotten beyond stale IMO (And why I think the attempts to 'NTR' the girls beyond Asuna in any kinda SAO work always fall flat and seem more overly focused on making sure to fully ruin Kirito's life all around than the girls actually getting corrupted).



I mean, sadly that's what all Fujino's works end up being, one way or another. Even this one while he's actually dragging the writing to make it last longer (Which ironically has made it feel a lot more unrealistic in other aspects despite giving him way more time to flesh out the world and characters) is clearly aimed to turning the girls into complete sluts in the end, like Kyouko really is whenever she's alone with Inoda despite her words. The only reason they didn't become insta-sluts after being exposed to his dick once even in their attitudes outside of sex is because Fujino wanted to try for a longer and more complex narrative, but it's clear it will happen for the 'main Inoda girls' in the end. Which is also why Suguha's sudden change in plot-focus was both so unexpected and interesting, as it's something Fujino never quite has tried before, but make no mistake, at it's core it IS the same: Suguha was acting like a full-on slut during that 'AV' she made in VR as Leafa with Hebishima. Sure, the 'fresh take' is that she was only doing so and out-fucking him outright because she was fantasizing she was doing it with Kirito and he was actually feeling annoyed at that script, but the 'Fujino TM Complete Slut Attitude' was clearly there, it was just the focus of the character that changed, and the fact that she's the one 'taking the lead' compared to the man because Kirito here is still the 'victim', in the end XD

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying it has to be that way; it was just an example. Suguha could also just have a straightforward NTR story. My point is that there is so much undiscovered potential. I also get your point that some, or maybe even most people, if they think of SAO NTR, just want Kirito to be pathetic. IMHO, if it's 100% obvious from the start that the MC can't do anything about it, why should one bother? What's the point? It's basically game over before it even started, be it NTR or any other genre.

 

[eldorado14]

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying it has to be that way; it was just an example. Suguha could also just have a straightforward NTR story. My point is that there is so much undiscovered potential. I also get your point that some, or maybe even most people, if they think of SAO NTR, just want Kirito to be pathetic. IMHO, if it's 100% obvious from the start that the MC can't do anything about it, why should one bother? What's the point? It's basically game over before it even started, be it NTR or any other genre.

Generally, good NTR games do give you multi-route gameplay with possibility of happy end and revenge for MC. I remember how good it was in Dark Hero Party. But it depends entirely on the writer and the Patreon, if they use voting system, so it becomes very rare to see those short of unique and interesting scenarios in NTR games. Most NTR games just heavily lean on porn logic to push plot forward. Then again, Fujino never made a happy ending for any of his NTR.

Previous games just had MC as a portable scene viewer, as girls got corrupted and turned into slut instantly. I am not saying this will end the same way, but Suguha plot and MC with some character is definitely a new ground for them.

 

[kinglionheart]

I mean, sadly that's what all Fujino's works end up being, one way or another. Even this one while he's actually dragging the writing to make it last longer (Which ironically has made it feel a lot more unrealistic in other aspects despite giving him way more time to flesh out the world and characters) is clearly aimed to turning the girls into complete sluts in the end, like Kyouko really is whenever she's alone with Inoda despite her words. The only reason they didn't become insta-sluts after being exposed to his dick once even in their attitudes outside of sex is because Fujino wanted to try for a longer and more complex narrative, but it's clear it will happen for the 'main Inoda girls' in the end. Which is also why Suguha's sudden change in plot-focus was both so unexpected and interesting, as it's something Fujino never quite has tried before, but make no mistake, at it's core it IS the same: Suguha was acting like a full-on slut during that 'AV' she made in VR as Leafa with Hebishima. Sure, the 'fresh take' is that she was only doing so and out-fucking him outright because she was fantasizing she was doing it with Kirito and he was actually feeling annoyed at that script, but the 'Fujino TM Complete Slut Attitude' was clearly there, it was just the focus of the character that changed, and the fact that she's the one 'taking the lead' compared to the man because Kirito here is still the 'victim', in the end XD

We are not talking about the same fate for women. A slut is someone with multiple sex partners. Fujino only finished the Chainsaw Man Hot Springs and Scathach game. Since I don't remember what happened at the end of Scathach so I will focus on Chainsaw game. At the end of that game the girls become sex-crazed for the guy and only that guy. That doesn't make them sluts.

I guess technically Asuna is already a slut since she slept with Kirito and Inoda but I think we can agree a woman should have more than two partners if they are considered a slut. The only sluts in this game are Suguha (if you count her online prostitutions), Sinon (unwillingly by Hebishima), and maybe Kyouko (depending on how many lovers she had before Inoda). I guess what you meant by slut was the girls will be sex-crazed. If you play as the guy corrupting the woman and if she becomes sex-crazed for you, then isn't the best outcome. You changed the woman to make her to see you, not sex, as the most important thing in her life. If she becomes a slut who gets off with anyone's dick then you are nothing special, just another warm dildo. The usual fate for woman who becomes sluts is becoming the town bicycle for everyone else to use which is not something Fujino has done for his main characters, unless it happened in Scathach, and is just wasteful for me. If she just becomes sexually open only when with the guy and mostly stays the same other times then it is just a happy ending for both parties.

 

[SixDates]

Then again, Fujino never made a happy ending for any of his NTR.

Previous games just had MC as a portable scene viewer, as girls got corrupted and turned into slut instantly. I am not saying this will end the same way, but Suguha plot and MC with some character is definitely a new ground for them.

Since I don't remember what happened at the end of Scathach so I will focus on Chainsaw game. At the end of that game the girls become sex-crazed for the guy and only that guy. That doesn't make them sluts.

The ntr in the Chainsawman game is actually interesting, because the only one who actually "falls" in that game is Kobeni, who is not a romantic interest for the protagonist. While Makima does get fucked, she isn't exactly taken away from the protagonist in any way that is common in the genre. She wasn't even taking pleasure from the sex, instead using it to gain political favors.

Denji, who absolutely loves Makima in the game's universe actually gets to have sex and enjoy himself with her quite a bit, which is also rare for a game where the heroine and MC weren't already in a relationship before the NTR happened. Yet, at the same time, while his love interest wasn't stolen, he was certainly made a cuckold as she was getting fucked behind his back constantly, and while she took his first time, she had a pussy filled with someone's else cum.

All in all, it was an interesting development for a NTR game since they don't usually develop in such a way.
Although, I personally liked Sakura's chapter and SAO much more, I would say his Onsen game was the most original game from Fujino as of yet.

 

[eldorado14]

The ntr in the Chainsawman game is actually interesting, because the only one who actually "falls" in that game is Kobeni, who is not a romantic interest for the protagonist. While Makima does get fucked, she isn't exactly taken away from the protagonist in any way that is common in the genre. She wasn't even taking pleasure from the sex, instead using it to gain political favors.

Denji, who absolutely loves Makima in the game's universe actually gets to have sex and enjoy himself with her quite a bit, which is also rare for a game where the heroine and MC weren't already in a relationship before the NTR happened. Yet, at the same time, while his love interest wasn't stolen, he was certainly made a cuckold as she was getting fucked behind his back constantly, and while she took his first time, she had a pussy filled with someone's else cum.

All in all, it was an interesting development for a NTR game since they don't usually develop in such a way.
Although, I personally liked Sakura's chapter and SAO much more, I would say his Onsen game was the most original game from Fujino as of yet.

I would say that's the characteristic of the original material that Fujino used cleverly, instead of overwriting those personalities for the sake of NTR. SAO and Chainsaw games are a bit different from usual Fujino style writing, for sure. But that just means they have grown as a writer. Main draw of Fujino games are their high quality animation work, typically. SAO is not that different, to be sure. Writing and characters feel a lot different from the original work, so Fujino must have taken quite certain creative liberties to make it an NTR scenario like this, as AlterInfernalAllius said.

 

[4-kun]

We are not talking about the same fate for women. A slut is someone with multiple sex partners. Fujino only finished the Chainsaw Man Hot Springs and Scathach game. Since I don't remember what happened at the end of Scathach so I will focus on Chainsaw game. At the end of that game the girls become sex-crazed for the guy and only that guy. That doesn't make them sluts.

The only sluts in this game are Suguha (if you count her online prostitutions), Sinon (unwillingly by Hebishima), and maybe Kyouko (depending on how many lovers she had before Inoda). I guess what you meant by slut was the girls will be sex-crazed. If you play as the guy corrupting the woman and if she becomes sex-crazed for you, then isn't the best outcome. You changed the woman to make her to see you, not sex, as the most important thing in her life. If she becomes a slut who gets off with anyone's dick then you are nothing special, just another warm dildo. The usual fate for woman who becomes sluts is becoming the town bicycle for everyone else to use which is not something Fujino has done for his main characters, unless it happened in Scathach, and is just wasteful for me. If she just becomes sexually open only when with the guy and mostly stays the same other times then it is just a happy ending for both parties.

Smart-ass mode on: Let's get some terminology clear.

A cheater should be clear.
A slut is someone who doesn't care whom they have sex with.
A prostitute does it for something in exchange, typically money.
A polygamous person has different partners but decides for themselves who these partners are.

I think the only person in Fujino's games who would be considered a "slut" is Saber from Nero.
As for Asuna she is a polygamous cheater.
Liz is poly.
Suguha poly prostitute (VR)
Shinon prostitute (forced)

smart-ass off

 

[kinglionheart]

Smart-ass mode on: Let's get some terminology clear.

A cheater should be clear.
A slut is someone who doesn't care whom they have sex with.
A prostitute does it for something in exchange, typically money.
A polygamous person has different partners but decides for themselves who these partners are.

I think the only person in Fujino's games who would be considered a "slut" is Saber from Nero.
As for Asuna she is a polygamous cheater.
Liz is poly.
Suguha poly prostitute (VR)
Shinon prostitute (forced)

smart-ass off

If we use your terminology then Suguha is still a slut. You think she cared about any of her clients beyond them paying her? Also Liz can't be poly since she has no partners.

 

[SixDates]

If we use your terminology then Suguha is still a slut. You think she cared about any of her clients beyond them paying her? Also Liz can't be poly since she has no partners.

Wasn't it the case that Suguha, somehow, became the top VR prostitute *without* sleeping with any client?
She definitely is a sex worker, but handjobs/oral, in a virtual game is a bit different from the general idea of a slut/whore/prostitute.

At the very least I would be more likely to call current Suguha batshit insane than a slut

 

[4-kun]

If we use your terminology then Suguha is still a slut. You think she cared about any of her clients beyond them paying her? Also Liz can't be poly since she has no partners.

It's not only about caring; it's also about choice. A slut just jumps on anyone or is just being used, but Suguha picks her clients herself and also refuses others, like Hebeshima. That's the difference.

As for Liz, she has sexual partners, Inoda and Kirito, no penetration for now, but other sexual acts.

 

[kinglionheart]

Wasn't it the case that Suguha, somehow, became the top VR prostitute *without* sleeping with any client?
She definitely is a sex worker, but handjobs/oral, in a virtual game is a bit different from the general idea of a slut/whore/prostitute.

At the very least I would be more likely to call current Suguha batshit insane than a slut

She can be both. Slut should still count without penetration if you consider someone can be poly or a prostitute without penetration. Again only going by 4ung-4ang's terminology. The general definition of a slut is someone with multiple sexual partners. So again all depends on whether you consider no penetration acts sexual acts.

It's not only about caring; it's also about choice. A slut just jumps on anyone or is just being used, but Suguha picks her clients herself and also refuses others, like Hebeshima. That's the difference.

As for Liz, she has sexual partners, Inoda and Kirito, no penetration for now, but other sexual acts.

Fine, going by your terminology then no one in this game is a slut. Not even Kyouko or Suguha. Can we at least agree that no one in the game will become a slut? They will become sex-crazed succubus for their man (i.e. Inoda for Asuna, Liz, and Kyouko) but not sluts?

 

[4-kun]

Slut should still count without penetration if you consider someone can be poly or a prostitute without penetration. Again only going by 4ung-4ang's terminology. The general definition of a slut is someone with multiple sexual partners. So again all depends on whether you consider no penetration acts sexual acts.


Fine, going by your terminology then no one in this game is a slut. Not even Kyouko or Suguha. Can we at least agree that no one in the game will become a slut? They will become sex-crazed succubus for their man (i.e. Inoda for Asuna, Liz, and Kyouko) but not sluts?

I'm aware that the word "slut" is often used as a general statement, mostly due to personal disagreement about someone's behavior.

Btw, I wasn't arguing against your points.

I just wanted to ensure we are all discussing the same meanings of things because I believe it matters when discussing character development and personalities.

 

[AlterInfernalAllius]

Slut should still count without penetration if you consider someone can be poly or a prostitute without penetration. Again only going by 4ung-4ang's terminology. The general definition of a slut is someone with multiple sexual partners. So again all depends on whether you consider no penetration acts sexual acts.


Fine, going by your terminology then no one in this game is a slut. Not even Kyouko or Suguha. Can we at least agree that no one in the game will become a slut? They will become sex-crazed succubus for their man (i.e. Inoda for Asuna, Liz, and Kyouko) but not sluts?

I'm aware that the word "slut" is often used as a general statement, mostly due to personal disagreement about someone's behavior.

Btw, I wasn't arguing against your points.

I just wanted to ensure we are all discussing the same meanings of things because I believe it matters when discussing character development and personalities.

I mean, it doesn't help that beyond Fujino's writing becoming quite a bit confusing in some aspects of how the girls REALLY are, especially as how it contradicts first the source material and then itself (Between Asuna's extreme hypocrisy and then Suguha actually managing to fully overturn her Predetermined NTR Fate, which I'm pretty sure is also a first in Fujino games), and THEN you add another layer of bullshit/confusion by how the characters all have that dumb "It doesn't count at all if done in VR"-rule, which completely contradicts the point of OG SAO but the writing and in-universe every single one treats it like gospel: Asuna with her excuses about why she's NOT cheating of Kirito by letting Inoda fuck her silly in VR, Liz for why her using Inoda for 'practice' in VR isn't an issue, Suguha why becoming a prostitute in VR for the sake of money (Used, ironically, to get things to further let her go the yandere path with her big brother lol) isn't actually her being a slut, etc.

To be 100% clear, when I said "a slut" before was basically a girl whose original personally is completely overwritten by being horny, not someone who just didn't care about fucking/being fucked by literally everyone. If it was by your definition then indeed nobody of Fujino's main females in the Fate games was a 'slut' because they only really fucked one person (2 in the case of Sakura), but the way they acted with the NTR guy completely overwriting their real personalities until it started to actually leak out even when they weren't having sex was what I was referring to :O

However, yeah, I think this discussion may have gotten a bit too deep and complex while I was away, let's just make sure we technically don't deviate from the game's topic and get the thread locked again XP