- Jul 26, 2022
- 997
- 2,201
No matter what happens, I am here for fujinos incredibly good animations and scenarios, that guy manages to make my dick explode within one singular scene I can trust him to make the game worthwhile.
I guess it depends, I didn't watch the original work but... I also don't care much if there's no "chemistry". I mean, the minimum I would like them to establish is that they are both dating and that NTR happens from there... So at least I have in mind that, in effect, it is NTR because they are both dating... And I feel that the game It does it well, since it also shows us how they interact and share as a couple
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
Maybe it's because usually, in games like this, when someone tries to rate that a game objectively doesn't have good writing or things like that it's just to detract merit from the work, you know? Since it's not like we are writers or anything like that
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
Last edited:
- Oct 21, 2022
- 2,303
- 3,369
A "good story" is super subjective. You will never get everybody to agree on that, "actual writing criteria".Just to clarify, I'm not evaluating the NTR tropes, and I understand what a parody is—I'm completely fine with it. What I'm trying to express is that I don't understand why people label it as "good storytelling" because, objectively, it doesn't meet the standards of good storytelling based on actual writing criteria. Just because the majority of stories in other games are even worse doesn't make this one good
I agree and am here for similar reasons.
People see it as good storytelling not because other NTR is dog shit, but because they like this story. Its nothin more than that.
- Oct 14, 2018
- 2,081
- 2,957
Once again, I wasn't providing a rating for the game; my arguments were directed at those who claim it has good storytelling.^^
I will admit, I considered the twist with Suguha in the last update to be 'good' mainly because I like Sugu winning and SAO Reverse NTR (As it feels way more realistic to me than any of the thousands of same-y SAO NTR scenarios
), but also because I felt it massively subverted expectations and it was amazingly original of Fujino to suddenly break the usual NTR cliches while technically still following them (After all is just a win for Sugu and not for Kirito, who regardless of how her story develops towards him or not is still gonna lose Asuna to Inoda).
- Oct 14, 2018
- 2,081
- 2,957
I agree that the enjoyment of a story is subjective, but there are objective criteria to consider when evaluating storytelling, such as character development, worldbuilding, pacing, originality, and character motivations, etc.; These elements significantly contribute to the overall quality of a narrative, shaping how well the story engages its audience. While personal preferences play a role, these criteria provide a more nuanced assessment, allowing for a broader understanding of what makes storytelling effective.A "good story" is super subjective. You will never get everybody to agree on that, "actual writing criteria".
People see it as good storytelling not because other NTR is dog shit, but because they like this story. Its nothin more than that.
No offense meant—I did a bit of cinematography in my college days, so I'm a bit biased towards professional criticism
- Oct 21, 2022
- 2,303
- 3,369
I'm something of a scientist myself.I agree that the enjoyment of a story is subjective, but there are objective criteria to consider when evaluating storytelling, such as character development, worldbuilding, pacing, originality, and character motivations, etc.; These elements significantly contribute to the overall quality of a narrative, shaping how well the story engages its audience. While personal preferences play a role, these criteria provide a more nuanced assessment, allowing for a broader understanding of what makes storytelling effective.
No offense meant—I did a bit of cinematography in my college days, so I'm a bit biased towards professional criticism
Honestly, I never followed Suguha's story because I don't enjoy the "Family NTR", and since Suguha is Kirito's sister... I never cared for the scenes that involved herI will admit, I considered the twist with Suguha in the last update to be 'good' mainly because I like Sugu winning and SAO Reverse NTR (As it feels way more realistic to me than any of the thousands of same-y SAO NTR scenarios
Yeah, like, the irony is that it's not REALLY NTR for her (Or for any non-Asuna girl in SAO,really), yet is always labeled/painted that way when people does NTR of SAO beyond Asuna when the only REAL NTR of any of the other girls would be if they stole Kirito themselves behind Asuna's back XD I just don't particularly care for NTR, though, plus both Suguha is my favorite SAO character and I happen to like KiriSugu too, while I couldn't care less about Asuna nowadays, so I have been playing since Part 1 for her more than the main story.Honestly, I never followed Suguha's story because I don't enjoy the "Family NTR", and since Suguha is Kirito's sister... I never cared for the scenes that involved her
That is why the unexpected twist REALLY was to my liking, as I had already accepted she was either gonna end up like Hebishima's pregnant sex pet that he would discard when another new girl he liked came along (Like the previous 98 ones) or, in the 'best' case, get 'picked up' by Inoda if Hebishima was removed from the game, which is why I never really expected Fujino to suddenly have her go borderline Yandere and start fucking Kirito while he was out of it/in the game, it reminded me of my favorite SAO H-doujin and opened up a new possibility of her being the one who ends up getting rid of Hebishima herself in a karmically hilarious twist
- Oct 21, 2022
- 2,303
- 3,369
Just because its family and Kirito doesn't want to fuck her does not mean it's not real NTR still. It's just a different flavor. The feisty strong sister(they are cousins) is being lost. It still fits as NTR. Totally fine to not like that type of NTR though.Yeah, like, the irony is that it's not REALLY NTR for her (Or for any non-Asuna girl in SAO,really), yet is always labeled/painted that way when people does NTR of SAO beyond Asuna when the only REAL NTR of any of the other girls would be if they stole Kirito themselves behind Asuna's back XD I just don't particularly care for NTR, though, plus both Suguha is my favorite SAO character and I happen to like KiriSugu too, while I couldn't care less about Asuna nowadays, so I have been playing since Part 1 for her more than the main story.
That is why the unexpected twist REALLY was to my liking, as I had already accepted she was either gonna end up like Hebishima's pregnant sex pet that he would discard when another new girl he liked came along (Like the previous 98 ones) or, in the 'best' case, get 'picked up' by Inoda if Hebishima was removed from the game, which is why I never really expected Fujino to suddenly have her go borderline Yandere and start fucking Kirito while he was out of it/in the game, it reminded me of my favorite SAO H-doujin and opened up a new possibility of her being the one who ends up getting rid of Hebishima herself in a karmically hilarious twist
I mean, I don't particularly like any NTR in general really, but no, what I meant to say is that it's not it for a lot of reasons, even putting aside that a lot of people justify it like that nowadays despite how the very word, 'Netorare', means "stealing another's lover", the 'fetish' has just grown so much now people basically treats it as "any girl with any interest/closeness to the MC getting 'stolen' counts"
For Suguha's case, though, it's quite specific, Fujino literally had to rewrite her in a very specific way to make her fit into his 'NTR Narrative' here, from eliminating her entire arc (Despite the contradiction of it apparently still having happened given we got multiple confirmations of Sugou having been dealt with) so she hadn't come to terms already with her feelings for Kazuto to literally having her act like the "feisty strong sister", as you said, when this wasn't her character at all, in the series after Kazuto came back from SAO she's literally being ultra-sweet and constantly nice/supportive of him and only really gets 'feisty' at all in moments when they're joking around, usually with him being the one who starts it, but Fujino wrote her as someone who was constantly talking down and borderline bullying him/calling him out on the things he liked liked so she fit better in the 'cliche' XP Which is why I particularly found her in this game to be even less 'NTR' than he intended by specifically trying to write her as NTR-prone as he could. He couldn't really write Suguha anything like she really was supposed to be at all outside the moment she got 'sweet' towards Kazuto when they had a moment together (And that ironically just came back in the plot, WAY after she had been tricked, 'NTR-ed', and fucked repeatedly by Hebishima) back then because otherwise he wouldn't have been able to write her plot at all :O
In my view, although there is a general description for the NTR... At the end of the day the NTR depends on how each person feels it... I think it's really subjective... That is why there are games that present it in different ways, and you know that even if you know that you are going to find NTR, it gives you excitement to know how the author is going to do it...
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
Ah, that's entirely fair, yeah. I will admit I personally don't consider SAO 'NTR' for most of the girls to count because they canonically got past their feelings and actively support Kirito and Asuna's relationship, despite what most people thinks the series is like, which is something that makes it particularly 'unique' compared to your average 'Harem' series where all girls still keep fighting over the MC or the MC never actually gets together with any even if there is a girl he likes and he has shown attraction towards one or more of them XPIn my view, although there is a general description for the NTR... At the end of the day the NTR depends on how each person feels it... I think it's really subjective... That is why there are games that present it in different ways, and you know that even if you know that you are going to find NTR, it gives you excitement to know how the author is going to do it...
I know you don't like NTR, I just wanted to comment thatYou don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
- Oct 14, 2018
- 2,081
- 2,957
Agree on this, I understand why even some developers expand the meaning of the NTR genre, including Fujino. It provides greater flexibility in storytelling and character portrayal. Even in situations with a one-sided love interest, you can create an emotional connection with the audience that makes it feel like NTR.In my view, although there is a general description for the NTR... At the end of the day the NTR depends on how each person feels it... I think it's really subjective... That is why there are games that present it in different ways, and you know that even if you know that you are going to find NTR, it gives you excitement to know how the author is going to do it...
I know you don't like NTR, I just wanted to comment thatYou don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
For me, NTR is not so much about the "how" as it is about the "what.
- Sep 12, 2019
- 3,574
- 7,735
There is no NTR without love. SAO is a popular NTR target because it wants to be a romance story but at least in the anime version the other girls keep having harem shenanigans. Damn studio not believing their viewers do not want harems. Like having harem appeal without being a harem.
If this is with a true harem show like To-Love-Ru then I doubt the feelings of NTR would as strong since Rito did not have such a strong feelings for any of the girls like Kirito and Asuna.
- Oct 14, 2018
- 2,081
- 2,957
Yeah, even if the love is one-sided, you can still evoke the emotional essence of NTR, although it may not strictly align with the conventional notion of cheating or a partner being stolen.
Regarding the harem aspect, I also agree. While it's not impossible, something like Mushoku Tensei could potentially function as NTR, but it's undoubtedly more challenging to execute compared to a monogamous relationship.
I mean, I have seen that critic countless times about the anime, but I never found it particularly true? At best the anime had the girls be a bit more cheeky or blatant at some parts, but never directly contradicted anything of the novels, funnily enough. For all that the 'pure' SAO fans insist that the other girls never romantically loved Kirito or that they got over it, as a reader of the novels I can say that they all DID, Sinon being the only one that maybe always stayed mostly platonic, and Sortiliena too if we count less relevant characters. For all that some fans wanna 'blame the anime', you can find countless minor scenes, sidestories, or extra material where the girls make it blatant they're all into him, Silica, Lisbeth, and Suguha have quite a few of these, and Ronye never even once tried to tone herself down. And the less we say about the mess with Alice the better XD The author unironically suddenly trying to backpedal and tone down their blatantness in the latest novel-only (So far) arc doesn't make this any less true
The difference is, they swallow their feelings and are legit happy for the main couple and support them in any way they can, not because they love Kirito but because they genuinely see both as great friends, but both things aren't mutually exclusive XPTo Love-Ru actually honestly counts more as NTR in my eyes because for SAO you can only 'really' NTR Asuna if you wanna be blunt, but for TLR a lot of the heroines count more than any of the non-Asuna SAO girls being stolen because Rito himself not only has accepted blatantly onscreen he liked Lala and Haruna (Who BOTH like him back), even if he never got together with them, but has actually had many scenes of blatant attraction and affection with most of the side-heroines, even if they also never put it beyond a certain point, there IS legit something there to 'steal' that's even mutual to a degree. Kirito meanwhile, while a bit of a troll or too friendly at times, never has shown any sort of real interest in the other girls.
Also, funnily enough, I actually find the SAO AU that actually is more blatant and Harem-like (The SAO Gameverse from the console/PC games) to feel better written than Canon SAO, and would probably think fits better for NTR of the series, but almost nobody really knows that one exists because it's extremely unpopular thanks to most of the fandom hating it for that exact reason XD
Last edited:
I just gotta clarify I think since I’m the one who said a good story could be told. I agree that the game by no means is actually good in terms of general stories. Also agree that between part 1 and 2 there’s a disconnect that makes the overall story a mess.agreed
I really don't understand why people consider this to be a good story. Part 1 was as typical of an NTR game as it could possibly be. There was no chemistry between the main characters to begin with. If it weren't for its well-known franchise, nobody would even believe that Kirito and Asuna are a couple. Both main characters are just flat NTR dummies, with the only interesting character being Inoda.
The extreme slowdown in progression and other changes in the world-building and character personalities in Part 2 make things even messier. Nothing makes any sense considering what and how things happened in Part 1.
That's definitely not what I would consider good storytelling
Fujino should've just kept things as they were in Part 1; then it would at least be consistent.
However, I understand that personal development is important, but doing it in the middle of a game is not a good idea.
I just think that looking at the base of the story goes without focusing on the details and issues, it still comes across as main hero duo take pity on newbie with unfortunate circumstance, newbie turns out to have ulterior motives and due to all the surrounding factors the newbie is slowly starting to corrupt half of the duo. Which to me is interesting, every situation just servers as a tool to further the story and serve as fap material.
There are few NTR games that have a good story, most are just scenes, the first harassment involves sex in the next scene...
I think that in the next few years we could have a game with a lot of setting, history, development, etc., since now the devs are growing and learning, we could have more things to do.
I think that in the next few years we could have a game with a lot of setting, history, development, etc., since now the devs are growing and learning, we could have more things to do.
- Jul 7, 2017
- 205
- 81