RPGM Sword Art Online: The Trap of Breath Concealed Magic [Part 2 v0.832] [Fujino]

[kinglionheart]

As for Kirito being 'Too OP and the girls fall for him', LMAO, this has always been the shittiest excuse ever for hate against his characters when literally DOZENS of other similar ones that were a million times worse in that aspect came out in the years after SAO's first season yet it was only Kirito and SAO who even remotely stayed in the spotlight of the 'haters' (Who are a vocal minority anyway), it was always SAO being so popular what triggered most. Especially when LMAO, Kirito literally is suffering brutal emotional blows and trauma every single arc almost like his author got off on it, especially in Alicization XD

So true SAO was not the first or the last story about a teen trapped in another world, gains overpowered abilities, and got a lot of women. I still think Familiar of Zero did it first in that modern context but no one ever talks about it.

Really, Kirito's only sin was SAO became so popular. It released just at the right time and became a lot of people's gateway anime. But unfortunately it was the beginning of anime studio prioritizing quantity over quality. SO MANY lazy copycat animes with overpowered protagonist with harems came over like weed came afterwards. A lot of them with slave harem members which I am glad SAO never did. (Thank Shield Hero for that trope!) Kirito became the poster boy of the trashy overpowered MC anime genre. No one will remember how much he grows and suffers, all everyone remembers are the women he got through his growth and suffering! I guess it helps that he doesn't show to suffer any lasting effects of those trauma. The story only reminding us he still have those traumas at critical character development moments.

 

[drag0nf6y]

Where is the part that goes against what you're saying ?

I'm just saying that Kirito always been an easy target for cuck scenarios because there's stuff in the anime that feeds it and his personnality and looks is a great root to create them. Even if you think that it's unfair it's always been the case before this game and will be after.

isn't it always the case with any strong fictional protagonist who has a beautiful waifu and is loved by many? that's why the ntr parodies turn out so good. there's a reason why naruto, my dress-up darling, and bleach have a lot of ntr parodies (because the bond in canon is strong)

 

[mos555]

So true SAO was not the first or the last story about a teen trapped in another world, gains overpowered abilities, and got a lot of women. I still think Familiar of Zero did it first in that modern context but no one ever talks about it.

Really, Kirito's only sin was SAO became so popular. It released just at the right time and became a lot of people's gateway anime. But unfortunately it was the beginning of anime studio prioritizing quantity over quality. SO MANY lazy copycat animes with overpowered protagonist with harems came over like weed came afterwards. A lot of them with slave harem members which I am glad SAO never did. (Thank Shield Hero for that trope!) Kirito became the poster boy of the trashy overpowered MC anime genre. No one will remember how much he grows and suffers, all everyone remembers are the women he got through his growth and suffering! I guess it helps that he doesn't show to suffer any lasting effects of those trauma. The story only reminding us he still have those traumas at critical character development moments.

Well, Naofumi (Shield Hero) can be justified from some side, after all, the first thing they do to him in another world is betray him. Problems with trust, psychological dependence on control. I think in Fujino's game, if Kirito finds out about Asuna's betrayal, it will affect the rest of his life. I have no doubt that he will look at all his future companions through the prism of Asuna's betrayal. That is, he will never trust them completely. He won't even trust Suguha completely.

As for Kirito, I think it's worth making allowances for


and


(Sorry I couldn't hold on.)

When the series first started, Kirito seemed like a fresh and cool hero, especially considering that there weren't many really interesting isekai back then. Now, mostly, people look at Kirito through over 9,000 of the same isekai (there are even some where MC are just copies of Kirito)
Yuuta Suo - Hyakuren no Haou to Seiyaku no Valkyria

Sato Pendragon - Death March kara Hajimaru Isekai Kyousoukyok


And there are many more examples. So, I'm afraid the whole point is that people don't perceive Kirito the way they did then. Kirito was then a 15-year-old boy who was on the verge of death and did everything he could, experiencing the deaths of others that remained on his shoulders. He helped people as much as he could, and it was no surprise that the girls saw him as a savior and a tough guy. And now they see him as just another isekai hero with a harem, of which there are hundreds. And many people mistake his detachment and problem in communicating with people for arrogance. In fact, only Asuna was able to pull him out of the shell he was surrounding himself with.(If you count it, the guild "Moonlight Black Cats" that died in full force, but, in fact, it only got worse.) A ruthless time.

 

[AlterInfernalAllius]

So true SAO was not the first or the last story about a teen trapped in another world, gains overpowered abilities, and got a lot of women. I still think Familiar of Zero did it first in that modern context but no one ever talks about it.

Really, Kirito's only sin was SAO became so popular. It released just at the right time and became a lot of people's gateway anime. But unfortunately it was the beginning of anime studio prioritizing quantity over quality. SO MANY lazy copycat animes with overpowered protagonist with harems came over like weed came afterwards. A lot of them with slave harem members which I am glad SAO never did. (Thank Shield Hero for that trope!) Kirito became the poster boy of the trashy overpowered MC anime genre. No one will remember how much he grows and suffers, all everyone remembers are the women he got through his growth and suffering! I guess it helps that he doesn't show to suffer any lasting effects of those trauma. The story only reminding us he still have those traumas at critical character development moments.

Prety much, yeah, sad but true. And funny that you mention Zero no Tsukaima/Familiar of Zero, I remember when I first read the novels that I was struck for how REAL it felt, ironically: Unlike most modern takes on the Isekai Harem Tropes, Saito actually reacted A LOT like a 'real' teenage boy put in such a situation would be, which is why he ended up kissing and kinda groping basically all the main female cast at least once, and the 'harem' stuff actually had consequences, oftentimes very serious ones, for the characters involved and their reactions (Like Louise running away period when he saw her and Henrietta kissing in the basement of the house), and had a lot of very serious stuff all around (Louise literally tried to kill herself when she thought Saito died during the war).........all of which was almost completely removed from the anime adaptation and titanically dumbed down and turned the fanservice and comedy up to eleven, for some reason, so rather than the interesting and weirdly realistic at times story that it originally was, ZnT became just one of the first slops of this particular genre XD

 

[kinglionheart]

Well, Naofumi (Shield Hero) can be justified from some side, after all, the first thing they do to him in another world is betray him. Problems with trust, psychological dependence on control.

For Naofumi, buying a slave, Raphtalia, was supposed to be seen as a act of desperation since he had no other way to fight. But everyone just saw "hot slave part animal walfu!" without thinking about the reasons and consequences of owning people. So now almost every isekai power fantasy story would have a slave harem member for no reason, thanks to Shield Hero.

Prety much, yeah, sad but true. And funny that you mention Zero no Tsukaima/Familiar of Zero, I remember when I first read the novels that I was struck for how REAL it felt, ironically: Unlike most modern takes on the Isekai Harem Tropes, Saito actually reacted A LOT like a 'real' teenage boy put in such a situation would be, which is why he ended up kissing and kinda groping basically all the main female cast at least once, and the 'harem' stuff actually had consequences, oftentimes very serious ones, for the characters involved and their reactions (Like Louise running away period when he saw her and Henrietta kissing in the basement of the house), and had a lot of very serious stuff all around (Louise literally tried to kill herself when she thought Saito died during the war).........all of which was almost completely removed from the anime adaptation and titanically dumbed down and turned the fanservice and comedy up to eleven, for some reason, so rather than the interesting and weirdly realistic at times story that it originally was, ZnT became just one of the first slops of this particular genre XD

ZnT did feel more real than most other isekai now. It was charting new territories for its time. The anime did remove a lot for darker elements for harem shenanigans. I don't remember if the anime dealt with this but Saito found out his summoning actually brainwashed him to be loyal to Louis. That was a good arc questioning whether his love was real or magical and how much he actually wanted to go home.

 

[AlterInfernalAllius]

For Naofumi, buying a slave, Raphtalia, was supposed to be seen as a act of desperation since he had no other way to fight. But everyone just saw "hot slave part animal walfu!" without thinking about the reasons and consequences of owning people. So now almost every isekai power fantasy story would have a slave harem member for no reason, thanks to Shield Hero.


ZnT did feel more real than most other isekai now. It was charting new territories for its time. The anime did remove a lot for darker elements for harem shenanigans. I don't remember if the anime dealt with this but Saito found out his summoning actually brainwashed him to be loyal to Louis. That was a good arc questioning whether his love was real or magical and how much he actually wanted to go home.

Small correction, you're mixing fanon and canon there at the end (Don't blame you because like 90% of the fanfics get it wrong): The Familiar runes were NOT, in fact, brainwashing him to be loyal to Louise (Or to love her as others sometimes write), all that they were doing was supressing his desire to return home so he would be more likely to stay with the Master (Which also explained why he never tried running away at the beginning despite her awful treatment, on top of being lost in another world), but weren't affecting his feeelings or loyalty otherwise (He wouldn't have had so many arguments with Louise and 'cheated on her' so many times if the runes actually did that XD). Though both of them DID question their relationship and stuff because of it after knowing of the compulsion, but were satisfied that it was still 'real' after Tiffannia used her magic to erase that part from the familiar runes.

Though, despite how fanon got it completely wrong, you COULD actually argue that SOME level of 'brainwashing' did happen, even if not directly caused by the runes: While Louise is indeed a more complex character than the anime show, it's actually not unrealistic to think that without the compulsion Saito would have ran away or actually tried his luck to go all the way with another of the girls at first before actually getting to fully know her and falling for her, so while it's not the black/white stuff that a lot of fanfics try to portray, there IS indeed some morally gray aspect to the whole thing even if they never really think of it like that in the novel.

Also, just realized we may be deviating from the thread with this talk so we may have to end it, but back to the original point, yeah, ZnT's VNs felt a lot more realistic and deep than the countless slops that came afterwards when the Isekai Harem genre became popular, SAO is much of the same: The series and characters are WAY deeper than most haters or casual watchers think, and most stuff people says about Kirito whether they genuinely hate him or just say it's "understand why he's hated" are usually either completely wrong, offset by the hilariously massive amount of shit that happens to him every arc and that people acknowledge way less than the 'OP' and 'harem' stuff for some godforsaken reason, or victim of anime adaptation XP While not as bad as the example we gave with ZnT, SAO's anime actually losses A LOT compared to the novels: 95% of the descriptions, inner monologues, and character thoughts that give them and the setting/plots a lot more depth are completely removed from the anime because of adaptation limitations, and given the novels are almost always narrated in a mix of 3rd person and first person PoVs, it actually makes SAO and its cast feel a lot more shallow than it actually is even if nowhere near as bad as the haters make it seem :3

 

[kinglionheart]

Also, just realized we may be deviating from the thread with this talk so we may have to end it

Yes best we end this now. But considering what this thread has been talking about the last few days, this has been a palate cleanser, in more ways than one.

 

[yemdomo]

Ah fuck it. Not going to play this update as i know i'll just feel unsatisfied with the update + want more as per usual. Will revisit this thread in June and hopefully by then, there will have been some mad developments/bunch of scenes and we'll be nearing the end (most likely not and Fujino will be ill/be swamped with irl shit like work for some months ).
View attachment 4485236

Aiight bois, how we looking? Its been about 6 months since I last played this. We nearing the end or nah? (you betcha i aint reading +300 pages)
Do I bother playing this most recent version or should I just wait a couple more months?

 

[drag0nf6y]

Well, Naofumi (Shield Hero) can be justified from some side, after all, the first thing they do to him in another world is betray him. Problems with trust, psychological dependence on control. I think in Fujino's game, if Kirito finds out about Asuna's betrayal, it will affect the rest of his life. I have no doubt that he will look at all his future companions through the prism of Asuna's betrayal. That is, he will never trust them completely. He won't even trust Suguha completely.

As for Kirito, I think it's worth making allowances for
View attachment 4883737

and

View attachment 4883738
(Sorry I couldn't hold on.)

When the series first started, Kirito seemed like a fresh and cool hero, especially considering that there weren't many really interesting isekai back then. Now, mostly, people look at Kirito through over 9,000 of the same isekai (there are even some where MC are just copies of Kirito)
Yuuta Suo - Hyakuren no Haou to Seiyaku no Valkyria
View attachment 4883741
Sato Pendragon - Death March kara Hajimaru Isekai Kyousoukyok
View attachment 4883743

And there are many more examples. So, I'm afraid the whole point is that people don't perceive Kirito the way they did then. Kirito was then a 15-year-old boy who was on the verge of death and did everything he could, experiencing the deaths of others that remained on his shoulders. He helped people as much as he could, and it was no surprise that the girls saw him as a savior and a tough guy. And now they see him as just another isekai hero with a harem, of which there are hundreds. And many people mistake his detachment and problem in communicating with people for arrogance. In fact, only Asuna was able to pull him out of the shell he was surrounding himself with.(If you count it, the guild "Moonlight Black Cats" that died in full force, but, in fact, it only got worse.) A ruthless time.

i've finally watched all of the hp movies now, and i'm feeling so sad and empty. it feels like something really dear to me is gone even though it's still in my heart. i even watched the 20th anniversary special, and it just made me even sadder t-t. i didn’t know that so many of the cast have passed away... and that quote by the late mr coltrane about how hagrid will live on even if he's not with us anymore... it broke me. i would never watch anything related my childhood ever again t-t

 

[Raferu]

Yeah, a lot of people like Onepunchman and Saitama, even though he became cool by basically just training every day, but a lot of people hate Kirito for being cool, even though for a 19-year-old guy, he went through too many life-and-death situations before becoming what he became. And the support of many friends, do not forget about it. Double standards.
View attachment 4883563

You're completely missing the point about Saitama. He's a parody of overpowered shounen characters, and so his power is being stronger than anyone else. And the story is written with this in mind, giving secondary characters like genos their chance to shine, even if at the end of the day Saitama takes care of the stronger ones. Also, Saitama didn't just suddenly become "cool". Before he became op as fuck he struggled against his enemies and could actually receive damage.

Basically, OPM is a parody of others, never taking itself seriously and focusing on being fun instead, like Konosuba parodying other isekais and becoming one of the best isekai in the process. On the other hand, Kirito is a character who automatically erases most of his enemies and earns the love and admiration of many women in a setting where he's supposed to struggle. And it's this lack of struggle that made many people grow tired with the character.

 

[drag0nf6y]

You're completely missing the point about Saitama. He's a parody of overpowered shounen characters, and so his power is being stronger than anyone else. And the story is written with this in mind, giving secondary characters like genos their chance to shine, even if at the end of the day Saitama takes care of the stronger ones. Also, Saitama didn't just suddenly become "cool". Before he became op as fuck he struggled against his enemies and could actually receive damage.

Basically, OPM is a parody of others, never taking itself seriously and focusing on being fun instead, like Konosuba parodying other isekais and becoming one of the best isekai in the process. On the other hand, Kirito is a character who automatically erases most of his enemies and earns the love and admiration of many women in a setting where he's supposed to struggle. And it's this lack of struggle that made many people grow tired with the character.

don't do whataboutism. slop leveling is even worse than sao, what do you have to say about it?

 

[Raferu]

don't do whataboutism. slop leveling is even worse than sao, what do you have to say about it?

When did I even say anything about solo leveling? You're the one doing the whataboutism here. My post was about how Saitama can't be compared to Kirito.

 

[drag0nf6y]

When did I even say anything about solo leveling? You're the one doing the whataboutism here. My post was about how Saitama can't be compared to Kirito.

everything you said is made up. kirito's story was written serious from the start and he actually went through a lot. he was stuck in a death game where dying meant dying for real. he blamed himself when people in his guild got killed. later he nearly died in gun gale, and in underworld he literally had his mind broken. that’s not "no struggle” that’s actual trauma. and most of the girls didn’t just fall for him on sight, he built real bonds with them over time. asuna especially wasn’t some basic love interest, she’s been with him through everything

also, i mentioned slop leveling because you were the one who compared kirito with some troll character like kazuma from konosuba by saying how it's such a gr8 parody isekai blah blah blah. it was fucking mid, that's what it was

 

[Blueflameria]

I like reading comments more than reading VN/LN

 

[mos555]

On the other hand, Kirito is a character who automatically erases most of his enemies and earns the love and admiration of many women in a setting where he's supposed to struggle. And it's this lack of struggle that made many people grow tired with the character.

I hope this is sarcasm, because if you're serious, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of Kirito. In short, he was a beta tester before the start of SAO, so he knew a lot about the game system, but the only thing he really didn't have to struggle was against ordinary players, because he, cornyly, knew more than them and swung faster than them. But in order to survive in SAO, the only thing Kirito did was struggle. There weren't many beta testers, but knowledge of tactics against bosses can hardly be called an automatic victory. In the second arc, he struggle for Asuna, in GGO, he was on assignment for the police because of the killer, and fought for his life more than once. His skills in these games are explained by the fact that all these games are made on the same engine and the principles of combat were similar. That's why Kirito used the sword so well in GGO. In Alicization, he almost died of poison and struggle for the freedom of the virtual world when the virtual world became alive and chose to remain trapped in this world for 200 years, but to save it. Kirito's whole life is a struggle. If he were a real person, he would probably go crazy from the strain. Kirito has experienced more in 5 years than an ordinary person in his entire life.

 

[Chuuni Badger]

There weren't many beta testers, but knowledge of tactics against bosses can hardly be called an automatic victory.

Besides, beta tactics only helped so much considering bosses were changed to catch test players off guard. And lets not forget that the first thing he did after the reveal in the original arc was running off to grind like crazy - dude was planning to no-life through SAO until he finally got friends there.

 

[Hentai7891]

hmmmmmmmmm.... why are you guy debate so hard on kirito and asuna? these is not same kirito and asuna on anime or manga, think of these kirito and asuna from other universe. I think of these kirito and asuna own sourse basic on these version. "DON"T PUT SHIT ON HER FACE. I DONT THROW DURING THE SCENE. IF YOU INTO THAT GET HELP!!! or go touch grass lol"

 

[slim-kr]

Kiricuck popularized a trash type of character and is boring in every possible way, you can mention 25 other different isekai trash yet he's still the face of the low ratings cuckosphere.

Some people here would love to see Kirito getting a rimjob only to see his ass cheeks

 

[mos555]

Some people here would love to see Kirito getting a rimjob only to see his ass cheeks

 

[Arya12345]

Honestly if Asuna does a rimjob...there are no more limits xD