Ren'Py The Bite: Revenant [v0.9313] [madmate.games]

[Canto Forte]

There is this arrow on the low end of the screen to get out of the room, there is this arrow on the lower half of
the screen to leave your appartment, then you go check out the white doors of your babes. Do not be shy,
Game oN!

Spoiler

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[JoeTheMC84]

I sincerely admire your faith in the human race.
I am a bit more skeptical but God knows I try...

I've been following along with the discussion some and I think I noticed something.

I think people are less upset that you didn't like the game over and thought it was a poor game design choice and are more confused why you gave up on the game. I can agree that often times game overs are out of place in these types of games, situations could be resolved differently, but I think some people are wondering why you would quit the game you said you were enjoying.

Think of it like this: You're playing Fallout and a rad roach kills you before you leave the vault. Do you quit the game? Most people would say no, you reload and continue. Same with Call Of Duty, you die in the prolog, do you quit? Or any other game. There are moments in the Witcher, in Fallout, in Mass Effect and any other story heavy game you could play where a choice comes up or a combat happens where you could die, but no one thinks that you do anything but reload and try again. Pick a different choice, or come back to the area later when you're a higher level.

I think people are bothered not because you don't like the game over, but because it seems like you did something they imagine you wouldn't do in any other game, you quit. Now, if you do quit every game after the first game over then that's interesting but odd. But if you don't then why do it here? I think, having observed the conversation up to now, that is what's got people interesting in talking to you about this.

Either you are treating this game different than you would others, or you have a very interesting way of playing games Either of those makes people want to comment on it.

 

[darkrenegade123]

this update felt a little rushed on story but I am still genuinely curious as to where the story is going, the .51 seems misleading in a sense because this is like what, maybe a few days into them getting bitten? this story is still very very new and theres like maybe 2 options that really split off the story? My issue is the way I want to see this game go either might take a long time or might need extra people working on it. There's a lot you can expand on but its just one person working on it, so I guess we'll just sit tight and see what happens.

 

[bosp]

I've been following along with the discussion some and I think I noticed something.

I think people are less upset that you didn't like the game over and thought it was a poor game design choice and are more confused why you gave up on the game. I can agree that often times game overs are out of place in these types of games, situations could be resolved differently, but I think some people are wondering why you would quit the game you said you were enjoying.

Think of it like this: You're playing Fallout and a rad roach kills you before you leave the vault. Do you quit the game? Most people would say no, you reload and continue. Same with Call Of Duty, you die in the prolog, do you quit? Or any other game. There are moments in the Witcher, in Fallout, in Mass Effect and any other story heavy game you could play where a choice comes up or a combat happens where you could die, but no one thinks that you do anything but reload and try again. Pick a different choice, or come back to the area later when you're a higher level.

I think people are bothered not because you don't like the game over, but because it seems like you did something they imagine you wouldn't do in any other game, you quit. Now, if you do quit every game after the first game over then that's interesting but odd. But if you don't then why do it here? I think, having observed the conversation up to now, that is what's got people interesting in talking to you about this.

Either you are treating this game different than you would others, or you have a very interesting way of playing games Either of those makes people want to comment on it.

Well, everyone is entitled to his own opinion. I don't judge anyone, wouldn't say people were "upset" - more like facepalming and pointing at "the idiot" who did not like something in the game they admire.

Your comparison does not hold water you know... full and complex open-world games like The Witcher cannot be compared to a small-time indie-developed renpy AVNs with quirky sandbox elements.

In Witcher if I am presented with a choice I have a chance to fight and win or lose but, ultimately, the outcome depends on my skill in fighting and maybe my equipment. If I lose, I go again until I can fight my way out of it.
In this indie AVN I am presented with a choice that is not actually a choice - it's either you pick "this line of text" or its game over.
Can you see the difference?

 

[Mograx]

Can you see the difference?

Not really. You die either way. Either from poor decision making or poor gameplay skills, both of which you had a chance to 'win' i.e. not die.

End result is the same.

 

[dopey80]

There is this arrow on the low end of the screen to get out of the room, there is this arrow on the lower half of
the screen to leave your appartment, then you go check out the white doors of your babes. Do not be shy,
Game oN!

No arrow on screen for me. Must be a bug.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

Well, everyone is entitled to his own opinion. I don't judge anyone, wouldn't say people were "upset" - more like facepalming and pointing at "the idiot" who did not like something in the game they admire.

Your comparison does not hold water you know... full and complex open-world games like The Witcher cannot be compared to a small-time indie-developed renpy AVNs with quirky sandbox elements.

In Witcher if I am presented with a choice I have a chance to fight and win or lose but, ultimately, the outcome depends on my skill in fighting and maybe my equipment. If I lose, I go again until I can fight my way out of it.
In this indie AVN I am presented with a choice that is not actually a choice - it's either you pick "this line of text" or its game over.
Can you see the difference?

I somewhat see the difference when it comes to combat, but even in games like the Witcher and the other ones I listed there are moments where choices are given but if you pick the "wrong" one it can end in a player death.

I can't remember if it was in one of the Dragon Age games or one of the Witcher (the first one if it was a Witcher game) games but there was a scene with a witch who makes you pick a position and if you live, she helps with something. You basically had two choices, right or left and if you were wrong you died. It was also a random choice the game made each time the scene played so if you died and reloaded it might not be the same as before. There was a specific trait that if you had you could tell which one she poisoned. But if you didn't have that trait then it was fifty-fifty, live or die and it came down to a moment of dialog choice. (Hell, it might have even been Dragon's Dogma. I've played a lot of fantasy games...)

One of the Metal Gear Solid games has a moment as well where you are a prisoner and if you pick one option you are left there and die, and if you pick the other you get out. This is not uncommon even in big games.

In fact, being forgiving in the bigger games should make you even more forgiving here. This is an independent developer, not a big team who can code and plot and render for every way to solve a problem.

I plan to play the update tomorrow after finishing the game I'm in the middle of right now. So, I don't know exactly how this scene plays out, but from what I've read it seems like you are presented an option to submit to someone's questing or not. Something along those lines.

The developer seems to have wanted to give you a choice to show that the world in dangerous and you're still a newb. Yeah, you have this power that can make you amazing, but you don't know how to use it yet. Again, not having played the scene yet I imagine that is the goal, to show that, "Yeah, you have power, but until you learn how to use it, you better be damn careful... otherwise you'll be killed."

I don't mean to frustrate you, you are obviously allowed to do whatever you like, I'm just intrigued by this conversation. Your justifications are interesting to me, and I've never talked to or heard from someone who thinks this way before.

 

[bosp]

I somewhat see the difference when it comes to combat, but even in games like the Witcher and the other ones I listed there are moments where choices are given but if you pick the "wrong" one it can end in a player death.

I can't remember if it was in one of the Dragon Age games or one of the Witcher (the first one if it was a Witcher game) games but there was a scene with a witch who makes you pick a position and if you live, she helps with something. You basically had two choices, right or left and if you were wrong you died. It was also a random choice the game made each time the scene played so if you died and reloaded it might not be the same as before. There was a specific trait that if you had you could tell which one she poisoned. But if you didn't have that trait then it was fifty-fifty, live or die and it came down to a moment of dialog choice. (Hell, it might have even been Dragon's Dogma. I've played a lot of fantasy games...)

One of the Metal Gear Solid games has a moment as well where you are a prisoner and if you pick one option you are left there and die, and if you pick the other you get out. This is not uncommon even in big games.

In fact, being forgiving in the bigger games should make you even more forgiving here. This is an independent developer, not a big team who can code and plot and render for every way to solve a problem.

I plan to play the update tomorrow after finishing the game I'm in the middle of right now. So, I don't know exactly how this scene plays out, but from what I've read it seems like you are presented an option to submit to someone's questing or not. Something along those lines.

The developer seems to have wanted to give you a choice to show that the world in dangerous and you're still a newb. Yeah, you have this power that can make you amazing, but you don't know how to use it yet. Again, not having played the scene yet I imagine that is the goal, to show that, "Yeah, you have power, but until you learn how to use it, you better be damn careful... otherwise you'll be killed."

I don't mean to frustrate you, you are obviously allowed to do whatever you like, I'm just intrigued by this conversation. Your justifications are interesting to me, and I've never talked to or heard from someone who thinks this way before.

Thank you, I was never going to get frustrated with this discussion, more like entertained tbf.
After all, this is the internet and this discussion provides an interesting socio-anthropological insight into people's idiosyncrasies.

 

[Ottoeight]

Rather than tell the author where they lost me, and probably some other folks, I invite them to write me a private message if they want my opinion and input. If they want help on actual story writing, I would be interested in that as well if they feel that they might benefit from it. I AM an authority on vampire stories and fiction, and I definitely have a far more interesting and agreeable idea of where I think this should have gone, but it is not my story.

I guess they lost you when you realized that this story - unlike an infamous VN you love so much - is written in English, therefore you are able to grasp what is happening.

Well, I guess gibberish broken Russenglish VNs suits you better.

 

[zh]

I have to side with you on this one, that was clearly an illusion and not a choice, the MC had to either impersonate Tekashi69 and hit rat town or die horrifically by getting his heart ripped out of his chest like a puny upstart which he is but where's the plot armor at? That was a joke..But in all fairness you can't expect all the players to have that submissive mentality where you always crack under pressure, in real life if vampires existed and I was living in the shoes of this MC I would definitely pick the mind control option and I don't think she would kill me tbh. That game over scene should have been stat dependent otherwise the dialogue choice is just an illusion and it forces you to be a pet for this daddy girl.

I was gonna do another playthrough with a more power/combat oriented character to see what happens in this scene... But looks like MC dies anyway if he picks the wrong option huh?
Well... that is frustrating.

There could have been so many other options.
Like... a high [survival] would warn the player before clicking (like he would feel the killing intent, or the fact that she doesn't bluff).
Or a high [perception] could spot Emilia... giving the MC more options to run (if he has the stats) or attempt to defend himself (in witch case he would indeed die (this MC is a newbie in enemy territory after all) or have another chance to run if he has the stats)
If MC spots Emilia, MC could also attempt to bluff if [intimidate] is high enough. Emilia knows that she has forced into sleep once... so she would think twice before attacking the MC if her surprise attack failed.

I don't mind the possibility of MC dying (I actually like it) but this shouldn't just be a coinflip... especially in a game with stats. What's the point of having stats otherwise?

 

[Ragnar]

The MC is a neonate, he doesn't stand a chance face to face against an older and more powerful vampire right now. He doesn't know about his own powers and has zero trainning. Still he managed to K.Oed her by surprise during their first encounter. Now she's aware of the MC's hidden power and prepared to btfo him if he tries something, hence the game over if you try something in that scene.
I don't understand why some of you can't understand this. This is not a landlady simulater in which the mc beats people with his equine dick and bitches throw themselves at him just because porn.

 

[LightmanP]

The walkthrough mod has been updated.

 

[zh]

The MC is a neonate, he doesn't stand a chance face to face against an older and more powerful vampire right now. He doesn't know about his own powers and has zero trainning. Still he managed to K.Oed her by surprise during their first encounter. Now she's aware of the MC's hidden power and prepared to btfo him if he tries something, hence the game over if you try something in that scene.
I don't understand why some of you can't understand this. This is not a landlady simulater in which the mc beats people with his equine dick and bitches throw themselves at him just because porn.

Again, I don't mind MC dying. MC is indeed a neonate. So, the probability of MC dying in this scene should be high.
But stats should matter in the way this scene plays out. That's all I'm saying.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

The MC is a neonate, he doesn't stand a chance face to face against an older and more powerful vampire right now. He doesn't know about his own powers and has zero trainning. Still he managed to K.Oed her by surprise during their first encounter. Now she's aware of the MC's hidden power and prepared to btfo him if he tries something, hence the game over if you try something in that scene.
I don't understand why some of you can't understand this. This is not a landlady simulater in which the mc beats people with his equine dick and bitches throw themselves at him just because porn.

Right? I haven't even played the update yet and as soon as heard about this event I was like, well yeah, that makes sense... Unless a lot of time has passed between the end of the last update and this one then you've still only been a vampire for, like, a few days?

There could have been so many other options.
Like... a high [survival] would warn the player before clicking (like he would feel the killing intent, or the fact that she doesn't bluff).
Or a high [perception] could spot Emilia... giving the MC more options to run (if he has the stats) or attempt to defend himself (in witch case he would indeed die (this MC is a newbie in enemy territory after all) or have another chance to run if he has the stats)
If MC spots Emilia, MC could also attempt to bluff if [intimidate] is high enough. Emilia knows that she has forced into sleep once... so she would think twice before attacking the MC if her surprise attack failed.

I don't mind the possibility of MC dying (I actually like it) but this shouldn't just be a coinflip... especially in a game with stats. What's the point of having stats otherwise?

But see, the issue is, you are asking an independent developer to now make six or seven variations of a scene that seems to exist for one purpose, to remind the player they aren't strong enough and need to get their stats up as soon as they can. Not only the variations on the immediate scene but all the branches that opens up as a result. If you can run, well now the whole game changes, you are running from one of the most powerful vampire families out there. The whole course of the game changes. You fight back, well same deal, now you have to fight off a whole family of vampires. Now do that with every choice.

From what I read there is a warning, you are basically told she will kill you if you pick a certain option right? Also, we know she is a psycho, she already tried to kill the MC when she just didn't like his answers about the route he was driving to her house... You can still pick to find out if it is a bluff or not, you find out it is not, roll back and pick the other one. But think about this going forwards, next time you have an interaction with her, maybe it'll play out different. But for now, you are untrained and only a few days old as a vampire, you shouldn't be able to kill a known psycho vampire that was exiled from the city because she was crazy.

Again, this is just my two cents and I'll be playing the update tomorrow, hopefully the walkthrough is up, but if not I'll play it regardless. So, maybe my view may change when I see it in execution (no pun intended) but for now, these were just my thoughts.

Edit: Actually, since the mod is updated, I'll probably juts pause the game I'm playing and download it now.

 

[zh]

But see, the issue is, you are asking an independent developer to now make six or seven variations of a scene that seems to exist for one purpose, to remind the player they aren't strong enough and need to get their stats up as soon as they can. Not only the variations on the immediate scene but all the branches that opens up as a result. If you can run, well now the whole game changes, you are running from one of the most powerful vampire families out there. The whole course of the game changes. You fight back, well same deal, now you have to fight off a whole family of vampires. Now do that with every choice.

So you're saying that we should accept that there will only be one branch in this game?
There are a lot of games with multiple branchs on F95.

But if you want limited results to avoid making the game too complex with too many branchs, the trick is to give the illusion of a choice.
Exemple : at the end of the scene, there would be only three outcomes : 1. MC dies (game over), 2. MC complies, 3. (not in the game unfortunatly) MC successfully wiggles his way out of this situation (thanks X or Y stat check)... but is still trapped somehow. Emilia is impressed by his potential and eager to work with MC (or to force him to work with her).

At the end of the day, 2. and 3. would actually be the same branch (there would be some dialogues adaptations, but that's it). The big difference is... the player feels like their stats matter.

 

[niko82]

hello, cant guet tthe paper quest, told me zoey is not here, a,d cant go there alone what should i do?

 

[Arigon]

I guess they lost you when you realized that this story - unlike an infamous VN you love so much - is written in English, therefore you are able to grasp what is happening.

Well, I guess gibberish broken Russenglish VNs suits you better.

Naw
I am sincerely not at all troubled by their use of English as a first language, and still note some mistakes in that... I think that is fabulous actually. I want to simply say that the dev is taking this is a direction that I find fairly unappealing. However, it is their novel so I am simply wishing them luck. No need to be snarky about it.
Edit- I do not have an issue with dying by the way. If you choose that path, you take your lumps. It does force you down a single path.
The post below me hit it on he head. Three things you can not do, that are "choices" in the sandbox.
Guestroom
Getting your papers
Visiting the Salon.
These and other things such as ending up sitting in your apartment with nothing to do as the ending scene just made me realize that I am not good with how this story is being told.
Peace

 

[RoadWulf]

This is why Sandboxes are a pain in the ass.

"Get the guest room key"
Guest Room: "Not yet implemented"
Then why did you make the Guest Room quest available instead of doing the Violet Lips quest.

Makes no God damned sense...

 

[3D Reaver]

what ethnicity is Claire supposed to be ? red hair, blue eyes, european features but really dark skin. I'm not saying that its an impossible combination but yeaaa...

 

[Arigon]

Hindi Irish maybe?