And I could see their relationship having a dynamic where one side is perhaps more assertive and the other more a follower, that's believable. I just took issue with the tonality the other poster was describing it in.
- Jul 25, 2017
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yeah I wonder that took cause I do think the dream is a bit weird on a non NTR path save.
On this route, Luke is a pervert. And we know that, because there's an entirely different back story, where he basically stands by, while his friend takes advantage of his drunk and helpless girlfriend. The insinuation from the Dev being, that on this route at least, Luke isn't such a nice person as he'd like people to believe. He has ulterior motives for some of the things he does, and his self belief, that he's really got his girlfriend's best interests at heart, is a lie. So to suggest this starts off as some kind of mutually chosen exploration of their sexuality, is wide of the mark. He controls his girlfriend, and she does it primarily to please him, rather than to please herself. Maybe he convinces himself, that it's for her benefit too, but the truth is, it's for purely selfish reasons. Ultimately, she does come to enjoy it a lot, but that was never the real intention. He does it entirely, to satisfy his own fetish. The irony is, that it becomes her fetish as well, and therefore she starts taking the initiative away from him. It kind of becomes a mutual thing, but deep down he's uncomfortable with that, because he feels his control ebbing away. It's less and less about what he wants, and more and more about what she desires and needs.
So I don't think it's too soon at all. It's just evidence of her, taking more control over her own destiny. His fetish has had the unintended consequence, of making her more confident and believe that her entire life doesn't need to revolve around him. Luke has formerly encouraged her insecurity. The idea of her being independent was anathema to him. A control freak like him can't tolerate that in a partner, and he's carefully cultivated her need to check every decision with him first. But his fetish doesn't take account of that. So Kathryn isn't maybe as insecure as it initially appears. Rather Luke has intentionally made her believe that. But now his fetish is starting to erode that, and because a lot of it was all in her imagination, it's not that difficult to get rid of, once she begins to realise that.
- Jul 25, 2017
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eh I don't fully agree with your interpretation but . I agree he is selfish on this path and wants it because of his own selfish desires and fetish. But I do not agree that he is controlling at all , at least not entirely. I admit I got to replay the start of this game as I dont recall how their relationship started with exploring this fetish. It might of been controlling a bit at the start. But once they went down this path that's where you lose me in saying he is controlling. Because everything so far to me shows they been doing this as a team and together every step of the way so far, with respect of each other's boundaries. If he was as controlling as you say he wouldn't care to respect her boundaries and making sure she is comfortable every step of the way while they explore this fetish of his.
I do agree she is doing things for his own benefit at the start though but as she does these things I really do think she is enjoying them and it's becoming something she actually likes and wants to do. As well as I think she uses " Luke would like this or find this hot" type of thinking as an excuse to do these things because she wants to do them. I also fear this type of thinking might go to far and she will end up cheating on Luke at some point thinking it's okay, at least if the player goes with that choice as so far I have faith this dev wont force that on us.
We just have to different ways of seeing things it feels like on somethings. But that's how I see things.
If he really loved her, would he have stood by and let his 'friend' take advantage of her, when she was obviously too drunk to know what was really going on? Kathryn starts to object to what Terry is doing, and it's clear to anybody that she's in some distress. A loving partner with have called a halt to proceedings at that point. But Luke doesn't. Because deep down he's a selfish bastard ( at least on this route). So if you can see that, and still believe that Luke's motives are pure. Well I don't think you're really seeing what the Dev wants you to see.
Yeah, just played through playing the 'non ntr' path, get most of it but not the sharing part.
I don't think anywhere in the game shows Luke to be a control freak, if anything it's Katheryn that checks if something is OK with Luke, not because he's controlling, because most of the time he leaves it up to her to do something as long as she's comfortable with doing it, on the non ntr/sharing route, Luke never asks her to do anything, it's usually spontaneous between the pair of them. Her choice to take her bra and panties off or not during the web meeting, also her choice to do the photo shoot at the end and the kissing & cuddling up to Nate in the park before she even phoned Luke, it was also her choice at the photoshoot to wear the crotchless lingerie, and then the see-through lingerie because she didn't want to let the team down, nothing to do with Luke, then the bj at the end, didn't even get the option to refuse because that option is greyed out no matter what route you choose.
I don't believe his motives are pure, I believe the characters are more complicated than you're making it. I get extremely wary anytime someone describes any relationship with strong condemnatory language for one party and neutral language for the other.
You say: If he really loved her, would he have stood by and let his 'friend' take advantage of her, when she was obviously too drunk to know what was really going on?
I'd ask the inverse: If he really was a selfish bastard, would he have even pondered his own past actions, where he stood by and let his 'friend' take advantage of her, when she was obviously too drunk to know what was really going on?
When he admits his fetish to Kath, Luke being a selfish bastard is no more. You can still make him a selfish bastard nonetheless if you chose to send Kath's nude to Santini and/or ask her to suck the stranger's cock in movie theater bathroom which Kath wasn't fine with that. In the first episode, Luke was aware the risk of losing Kath if he's going too far with his fetish. Throughout the gameplay, the limitation of how far things could go is provided by the choices. So, it's in your hand to make Luke a selfish prick or a caring partner.
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On either path Luke has his desires to have his girl become slutty that he tries to either embrace or hide. Kathryn has her desire to be an exhibitionist and be more sexual which she either tries to hide or embrace.
Its a constant battle in their heads even on the pure path to hide those urges. So you will always have both of them fantasizing and thinking that, or on the verge of doing these sexual things. There is also a couple of particular choices that will trigger scenes later, which will be more sexual than you think. So you have to navigate carefully.
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- Dec 11, 2022
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The real question is if those were only fantasies or a retrospection. On NTR path, he was thinking about a factual event in the past. If it is also happened on vanilla then... hmm that should be quite concerning for the MC
Well you're right they are doing it together, and he does appear to respect her boundaries, because he's made himself believe that everything he does for her, is ultimately for her benefit. But that isn't the case. If he really respected her, he'd trust her to make her to make her own decisions, and he doesn't. Instead he treats her like a child, and every decision she makes, has to go by him first. This is the very essence of a controlling relationship. The belief that your partner cannot function without you ( when he's in jail, he's convinced that she wont be able to cope with him not there, but nothing could be further from the truth and the person who really struggles is him, because in that situation he loses his ability to make decisions for her, and thus his control and that terrifies him).
As far as her cheating on him is concerned. I think the players choices for Luke will play a big role in that, particularly if you allow him to cheat on her. So allowing him to grope Clem's breasts ( and potentially do much more in the future) or have Kathryn's mom give him a blowjob, is probably starting a route towards that. Because inevitably she's going to find out. And her revenge will be to cheat on him in turn.
It's also possible she may cheat on him, of her own accord. But I think that will be entirely the player's choice, and not something that just happens because she's becoming naughtier and sluttier. Perhaps some of the player's choices for Luke will make this more likely?
Even though I think Luke has been controlling her, I don't think that makes it inevitable that they'll split up, once she frees herself from the shackles so to speak. Although he doesn't realise it yet, Luke pursuing his fetish, is his way of abdicating his control. Deep down he wants to acknowledge that he feels helpless and out of control and becoming a cuck is the ultimate expression of that. Letting other men or women control his girlfriend sexually instead.
The question is, will this be with her 'willing participation', or because she's subjected to the sex drug that's been developed by Clem (not such a nice girl after all).
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- Jul 25, 2017
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Normally id agree with you on this point that it makes him controlling. Now unless I miss remembering something. I cant see this as controlling but rather proper communication while exploring this type of relation they have going on. Because I do not recall them having a proper conversation about what boundaries they have set for one another. Instead they are just checking up on one another to see if it's okay with one another. That's why I don't see this as him treating her like a child where every decision has to go through him first. Granted Luke doesn't do this if the player cheats but I'm not playing that way so for me it comes across as proper commination, instead of controlling to me.
You say he's not controlling, so why does he treat her like a child? If they truly were partners, he'd trust her to make the right choices for both of them, and not have to run everything past him first. The photoshoot was a perfect example of that, with her asking him constantly what she should do. If they were a real couple, who trusted each other, she'd know instinctively what she could and couldn't do. Only a child constantly asks the answer to every question. Kathryn believes that she has to do this, because Luke has made her believe that she's incapable of making decisions without his input. He is trying to take responsibility for everything in her life, and that is controlling behaviour, whichever way you want to spin it. It's not the way normal couples behave. Normal partners, want their other halves to be adults like them.
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I'd rather it follow that schedule, than tease us for two years, then get abandoned.
You're reading in to something that isn't even there, it's all conjecture by you, at no point does he talk to her like she's a child, she calls him because of her indecision, he just helps her to her own solution by being there for her, he doesn't tell her what to do, he just encourages her to make her own decision. The photoshoot, she asked him if he was ok, from what I remember, you didn't get an option not to let her do the photoshoot, he told her that was her choice as long as she was comfortable with it.
Personally I think it shows how strong she sees the relationship that she wants to let him know what she is doing or going to do because she doesn't want him to find out after the fact and he may have had reservations about her doing some things that he isn't comfortable with her doing where she is displaying herself to other people.
Maybe cause I'm not a feminist and I don't hate the opposite sex, but I see nothing controlling here.
- Jul 12, 2020
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I agree 100% with this like I said above to me their relationship the entire time with her calling him and asking if he is okay if she does X comes across to me a proper communication and not over stepping boundaries. As I dont recall them having a proper conversation of the do's and don't yet with this type of relationship.