VN Ren'Py The East Block [v0.8.3] [Bobbyboy Productions]

[GingerSweetGirl]

Forced content never works unless you're running a purely kinetic novel (and then it's expected). If choices are offered, then they need to influence how things play out in the future. Others will disagree and that's fine.

Mixing choices with forced content to override choices never works well, IMO. If you intend to force content counter to the choices I made, then just don't offer me choices at all. Call your product kinetic and we all will understand that.

Part of the problem with AVGs is that there seems to be no middle ground between a linear kinetic novel and a wide-open choose your own adventure. I think most people here would agree that a pure kinetic novel is not suited to a gaming format. Unless you're offering something else to game-ify the novel, a strict linear story will probably have a difficult time finding an audience. So that leaves us with multi-choice games with branching stories as the only viable method of building an AVG. But the ways that people play those games are so wide ranging that it seemingly becomes a nightmare for devs to manage expectations. The way people self insert into these games (and I don't mean that as an insult) is truly fascinating, but once that happens I think devs enter a lose-lose scenario. If the story that Bobby wants to tell always includes Katheryn cheating, then that will conflict with players that self insert and want to play a version of the game where that doesn't happen. They aren't playing Katheryn as an independent character, they're playing her as an avatar of themselves.

How does a small dev team balance the implementation of meaningful player choices without development time spiraling out of control, while also delivering a coherent story? To me, that requires canon events that the player, no matter their choices, cannot avoid. Now maybe the way they arrive at those events can vary depending on previous choices, but those canon events like Katheryn cheating are still going to happen. If those canon events are instead completely optional then we as players need to be prepared for a game that will never be completed because it will balloon out of control.

So while devs need to do a better job of managing expectations, I think players need to adjust our expectations. All of us here have been burned many, MANY, times by games that fell apart. It sucks. I think one of the best ways we can protect ourselves from that feeling is to adjust our expectations. Instead of playing a game and thinking "What would I, Gingersweetgirl, do in this situation", I find it's helpful to play the game from the perspective of the character. In this case we're playing Katheryn's story, and that story includes a painful chapter where she cheats. From here we'll see how her story unfolds and I, as the player, can help guide it but I don't have complete control over everything. If I can put myself in that frame of mind, I find that I enjoy games a lot more.

 

[Joshy92]

If Bobby had of been honest at the start I wouldn't be so sad. He said she would never cheat he promised it. Then the whole update is about that.

Then when I asked if humiliation was still possible on the sharing path he said it doesn't fit Luke's character. He said last year it would happen. It's like why do people keep stringing me along? Can devs really be trusted.

 

[DanThaMan]

If Bobby had of been honest at the start I wouldn't be so sad. He said she would never cheat he promised it. Then the whole update is about that.

Then when I asked if humiliation was still possible on the sharing path he said it doesn't fit Luke's character. He said last year it would happen. It's like why do people keep stringing me along? Can devs really be trusted.

No dev can ever be trusted fully, this update is literal proof

 

[Turret]

How does a small dev team balance the implementation of meaningful player choices without development time spiraling out of control, while also delivering a coherent story? To me, that requires canon events that the player, no matter their choices, cannot avoid. Now maybe the way they arrive at those events can vary depending on previous choices, but those canon events like Katheryn cheating are still going to happen. If those canon events are instead completely optional then we as players need to be prepared for a game that will never be completed because it will balloon out of control.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree. We have games on F95, with small teams or single devs, who are able to make fixed canon events which can be handled on their various paths and will complete their games. For example, "Wifey´s dilemma revisited" has fixed canon events you must solve, but you can do so on a love, sharing/swinging and NTR path, which also have several subpaths each. "Pale Carnations" too has fixed canon events you can solve differently. "Deliverance" is another game, already finished.
Bobby simply fucked up with forcing an event which is only reasonable on a single specific path! On all other paths it is contrieved, stupid and story/character destroying.

 

[Turret]

If Bobby had of been honest at the start I wouldn't be so sad. He said she would never cheat he promised it. Then the whole update is about that.

Then when I asked if humiliation was still possible on the sharing path he said it doesn't fit Luke's character. He said last year it would happen. It's like why do people keep stringing me along? Can devs really be trusted.

A virtual Hug for you!

 

[Joshy92]

Part of the problem with AVGs is that there seems to be no middle ground between a linear kinetic novel and a wide-open choose your own adventure. I think most people here would agree that a pure kinetic novel is not suited to a gaming format. Unless you're offering something else to game-ify the novel, a strict linear story will probably have a difficult time finding an audience. So that leaves us with multi-choice games with branching stories as the only viable method of building an AVG. But the ways that people play those games are so wide ranging that it seemingly becomes a nightmare for devs to manage expectations. The way people self insert into these games (and I don't mean that as an insult) is truly fascinating, but once that happens I think devs enter a lose-lose scenario. If the story that Bobby wants to tell always includes Katheryn cheating, then that will conflict with players that self insert and want to play a version of the game where that doesn't happen. They aren't playing Katheryn as an independent character, they're playing her as an avatar of themselves.

How does a small dev team balance the implementation of meaningful player choices without development time spiraling out of control, while also delivering a coherent story? To me, that requires canon events that the player, no matter their choices, cannot avoid. Now maybe the way they arrive at those events can vary depending on previous choices, but those canon events like Katheryn cheating are still going to happen. If those canon events are instead completely optional then we as players need to be prepared for a game that will never be completed because it will balloon out of control.

So while devs need to do a better job of managing expectations, I think players need to adjust our expectations. All of us here have been burned many, MANY, times by games that fell apart. It sucks. I think one of the best ways we can protect ourselves from that feeling is to adjust our expectations. Instead of playing a game and thinking "What would I, Gingersweetgirl, do in this situation", I find it's helpful to play the game from the perspective of the character. In this case we're playing Katheryn's story, and that story includes a painful chapter where she cheats. From here we'll see how her story unfolds and I, as the player, can help guide it but I don't have complete control over everything. If I can put myself in that frame of mind, I find that I enjoy games a lot more.

She only cheats of we choose for her to. The problem is that she sides with Pat no matter what. All game I've skipped scenes with those ugly bitches Claire, Clementine and the rest. And this is how I'm rewarded?

 

[NewGuy2022]

Part of the problem with AVGs is that there seems to be no middle ground between a linear kinetic novel and a wide-open choose your own adventure. I think most people here would agree that a pure kinetic novel is not suited to a gaming format. Unless you're offering something else to game-ify the novel, a strict linear story will probably have a difficult time finding an audience. So that leaves us with multi-choice games with branching stories as the only viable method of building an AVG. But the ways that people play those games are so wide ranging that it seemingly becomes a nightmare for devs to manage expectations. The way people self insert into these games (and I don't mean that as an insult) is truly fascinating, but once that happens I think devs enter a lose-lose scenario. If the story that Bobby wants to tell always includes Katheryn cheating, then that will conflict with players that self insert and want to play a version of the game where that doesn't happen. They aren't playing Katheryn as an independent character, they're playing her as an avatar of themselves.

How does a small dev team balance the implementation of meaningful player choices without development time spiraling out of control, while also delivering a coherent story? To me, that requires canon events that the player, no matter their choices, cannot avoid. Now maybe the way they arrive at those events can vary depending on previous choices, but those canon events like Katheryn cheating are still going to happen. If those canon events are instead completely optional then we as players need to be prepared for a game that will never be completed because it will balloon out of control.

So while devs need to do a better job of managing expectations, I think players need to adjust our expectations. All of us here have been burned many, MANY, times by games that fell apart. It sucks. I think one of the best ways we can protect ourselves from that feeling is to adjust our expectations. Instead of playing a game and thinking "What would I, Gingersweetgirl, do in this situation", I find it's helpful to play the game from the perspective of the character. In this case we're playing Katheryn's story, and that story includes a painful chapter where she cheats. From here we'll see how her story unfolds and I, as the player, can help guide it but I don't have complete control over everything. If I can put myself in that frame of mind, I find that I enjoy games a lot more.

Thank you for your well thought-out response.

I agree that the terms kinetic and game don't belong together but I've seen kinetic stories on sites such as this and sometimes I actually enjoyed the story. I recognize that sometimes there are elements that a developer feels must occur for a story/game to unfold as he envisions it. The way to manage this, in my opinion, is never to offer choices that your (directed) path would contradict.

For example, I've seen other developers begin their games with a disclaimer such as "my game contains netorare scenes that are unavoidable. If you are easily upset by content such as this, please leave this story and enjoy a different game" or words to that effect. While I may not agree with or enjoy such content, I always respect the developer for setting expectations from the beginning. When you tell me up-front that the MC will be betrayed no matter what I do, when that finally occurs in the game I won't be upset by it since the developer told me this would happen.

In this game, if the player decides for the MC to cheat on his LI and she cheats later on him, I have no issue with that because her infidelity is an expected consequence of the player choice to allow the MC to cheat. In this case, the relationship fails due to player choices. I'm okay with a bad ending that results from poor player choices.

Call me entitled or overdemanding if you must, but I expect an ending that ties in with the choices I make throughout the game. When I choose consistently along one path and then the developer forces the content along a diametrically opposed path, I as the player feel cheated by the developer. It's not about the netorare in this case; it's about the developer betraying my trust by voiding the choices I made. That's why I say that if you know that you don't care what choices I make on a given matter (since you will force the content to fit your narrative) then simply don't permit choices about that matter at any point in the game.

If the developer feels he must include some specific event such as this in the game, then at least offer the player a chance to get some sort of feeling of payback after the fact: take physical action against the LI and bull(s), divorce, something (anything) to suggest the MC still has a modicum of dignity left instead of just deciding to become a weak-willed submissive about it. Far too often the developer then changes the narrative to suggest the MC actually enjoys what just happened to him so the player not only has his trust betrayed but is forced to pretend it was just fine and my how the MC now enjoys being humiliated by someone he used to trust.

 

[Dessolos]

Unfortunately, I have to disagree. We have games on F95, with small teams or single devs, who are able to make fixed canon events which can be handled on their various paths and will complete their games. For example, "Wifey´s dilemma revisited" has fixed canon events you must solve, but you can do so on a love, sharing/swinging and NTR path, which also have several subpaths each. "Pale Carnations" too has fixed canon events you can solve differently. "Deliverance" is another game, already finished.
Bobby simply fucked up with forcing an event which is only reasonable on a single specific path! On all other paths it is contrieved, stupid and story/character destroying.

kind of why the more I think about it the more I start to to think maybe it would of better for the no Luke path at the dance with Pat would of been a canon event / defaulted unless Bobby decides to make some changes to the Luke , Path and Kath path. Now this could be just me and many will disagree with me. But I kind of feel like the way everything plays out it feels the best when Luke isn't there which is why my headcanon is this path and im gonna go back and change my main save to this and just pretend the other doesn't exist.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Part of the problem with AVGs is that there seems to be no middle ground between a linear kinetic novel and a wide-open choose your own adventure. I think most people here would agree that a pure kinetic novel is not suited to a gaming format. Unless you're offering something else to game-ify the novel, a strict linear story will probably have a difficult time finding an audience. So that leaves us with multi-choice games with branching stories as the only viable method of building an AVG. But the ways that people play those games are so wide ranging that it seemingly becomes a nightmare for devs to manage expectations. The way people self insert into these games (and I don't mean that as an insult) is truly fascinating, but once that happens I think devs enter a lose-lose scenario. If the story that Bobby wants to tell always includes Katheryn cheating, then that will conflict with players that self insert and want to play a version of the game where that doesn't happen. They aren't playing Katheryn as an independent character, they're playing her as an avatar of themselves.

How does a small dev team balance the implementation of meaningful player choices without development time spiraling out of control, while also delivering a coherent story? To me, that requires canon events that the player, no matter their choices, cannot avoid. Now maybe the way they arrive at those events can vary depending on previous choices, but those canon events like Katheryn cheating are still going to happen. If those canon events are instead completely optional then we as players need to be prepared for a game that will never be completed because it will balloon out of control.

So while devs need to do a better job of managing expectations, I think players need to adjust our expectations. All of us here have been burned many, MANY, times by games that fell apart. It sucks. I think one of the best ways we can protect ourselves from that feeling is to adjust our expectations. Instead of playing a game and thinking "What would I, Gingersweetgirl, do in this situation", I find it's helpful to play the game from the perspective of the character. In this case we're playing Katheryn's story, and that story includes a painful chapter where she cheats. From here we'll see how her story unfolds and I, as the player, can help guide it but I don't have complete control over everything. If I can put myself in that frame of mind, I find that I enjoy games a lot more.

That's a pretty serious "canon demarcation line" though - cheating or not cheating. On one hand I can understand you that it'd be impossible for a dev to accomodate every nuanced and specific taste. But I feel like in a game about a couple; cheating or not cheating is a pretty big brush and players can reasonably have an expectation both sides of this are seen.

It's not like players here are upset that they couldnt have her do doggiestyle vs missionary, or wear the red dress vs blue. Cheating and tossing aside 50% of the couple seems like a pretty titantic split in a game otherwise about a couple.

 

[boredathome63]

No way he can have a fulfilling loyal/nts AND ntr path, the amount of separate scenes/logic jumps/characters that just aren't present at all/personality shifts would be impossible to work. It's going to have to be something like were loyal gets almost nothing, nts gets ntr-lite stuff (Luke is suddenly cool with her banging the guy she cheats on him with) and ntr will get the bulk.

At least that's what I'm calling.

It's possible that Luke and Kathryn could be open about what happened in Chapter 8 with Franklin, Pat and the old guy in the tub causing them to decide they both are partially to blame.
And to keep the NTS path Luke could decide to forgive her under the condition she includes him going forward accepting it was his idea to initally get her engaging with other men.
Considering he has "lost control" in the moment before he may, as a way to keep Kathryn close, decide he's turned on by what happened and was only worried that they were losing eachother or conflicted with Pat being his Father.
That way she could film or something to include him when he isn't around but still ask for his consent before or explain how something happened afterwards without it leading to a potentially damaging moment for their relationship together.
This would allow all paths to continue and open doors to more spontaneous encounters, kind of like the first time Kathryn jerked off the flasher in the alley on her own.

I was also disappointed with the limited NTS in this update but believe this little bit of conflict could still work to add some depth to the story and prevent it from being to predictable or repetitive, if they don't force the story too much.

Now Kathryn can make her own choices and doesn't always have to wait for Luke's response for every little decision allowing Kathryn to focus more on her encounters and possibly end up being pushed to do things Luke would hesitate to allow, like rougher sex or face fucking/deepthroating, surprise anal, etc etc.

 

[NewGuy2022]

I would expect the developer will tell us that the MC loves the new development and the Kathryn will get away with everything, emboldening her to cheat even more. Sorry to be so negative but this is the impression I've been left with from other games where the developer decided to insert forced cheating (if indeed she did cheat). I still hold out some desire that perhaps it did not have to happen that way on every path; sometimes just the appearance of cheating is enough to create drama and doubt.

 

[King Cule]

It took a glorious six full months for Bobby to deliver a grand total of two sex scenes, a couple of side chats, and absolutely zero story progression.
But hey, as long as you keep throwing money at him, he’ll keep promising an update “in three months.”
Then he’ll come back with something like: “Oh nooo, dinosaurs invaded Canada and the Ice Age suddenly started, so I’ll have to delay the update until summer—once the glaciers kindly melt.

 

[NewGuy2022]

I disagree. He did progress the story. Personally I'm not fond at all of the direction he took things but... ...he did progress the story.

 

[Chudani]

Does anybody knows which AI tool the dev used to make those AI image to videos in the latest update?

 

[Morsin]

yet another developer who made a hot character and then got rid of them with AI slop. i'm sorry to be harsh, i don't pay anything and you owe me nothing, but your artwork is good and does not need AI reducing its quality. that is all that it is providing here. others use it as a shortcut, spending as many hours as you do making it yourself because they have to reroll the slop slotmachine forever just to get something even slightly attractive, and never to the level of this character. you don't need it. in this case all it is doing is taking what you handmade and guessing over it to fill in some animation, and it can never be the same quality and will always stand out as uncanny valley, even if it is better than what others who don't start with your artwork and go from there get.

 

[Hexxy]

I am wondering how the facial expression animations were created. I am thinking AI, but I don't want to assume.

 

[TonyMurray]

I am wondering how the facial expression animations were created. I am thinking AI, but I don't want to assume.

Practically half the latest episode was AI, so I'd say it's pretty safe to assume at this point.

 

[Joshy92]

Practically half the latest episode was AI, so I'd say it's pretty safe to assume at this point.

Another thing I was disappointed about. It's going to be awhile, but chapter nine is really going to decide for me how I feel about the game.

I know Bobby is cool and all but still. I just don't want what I thought was a masterpiece of avn storytelling and quality to go bad like mouldly bread. I love the game too much to stomach that.

 

[slightchance]

I know Bobby is cool and all but still. I just don't want what I thought was a masterpiece of avn storytelling and quality to go bad like mouldly bread. I love the game too much to stomach that.

Masterpiece of avn storytelling? Your Bobbyboy had Kathryn monologuing to explain away all the plot holes of the previous update instead of fixing them, only to pull new ones out of the hat. You must realize by now that you're only love with the aesthetics of the game. Minus the Ai-slop, of course.

Stay away from this project if you can't shut your brain off for a minute.

 

[Dessolos]

Masterpiece of avn storytelling? Your Bobbyboy had Kathryn monologuing to explain away all the plot holes of the previous update instead of fixing them, only to pull new ones out of the hat. You must realize by now that you're only love with the aesthetics of the game. Minus the Ai-slop, of course.

Stay away from this project if you can't shut your brain off for a minute.

eh id still consider this a masterpiece when it comes to a sharing game but everyone is different. However not for the story rare to find any sharing or NTR game that doesn't have some major issues with the story or it's there as an after thought. Tho I didn't hate the AI in this one cause ive seen games that used the AI in ways I found worst still don't love the AI but it's tolerable for me.