Ren'Py The Headmaster [v0.16.3] [Altos and Herdone]

4.50 star(s) 263 Votes
Discussion Reviews (263)
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Boblet

Newbie
Apr 12, 2023
49
133
Really interesting discussion above on project direction. I guess where I come out on the Maxine thing is that I am intrigued, but I am not 8 months worth intrigued, and I am also trepidatious that it is going to be a somewhat bloated insert that detracts from the more natural development of characters and plots. We will all get to make our own judgments, but for sure the developer has oodles of credit in the bank. And I will be delighted to be (not for the first time) proven wrong.

Another thing not mentioned that can impact development is team expansion. I am not saying this is the case here, but without a strong lead, team expansions can actually reduce quality and output. How can that be Boblet? Well, for example:

1. Cascading missed deadlines. Deadlines become interdependent and there are more chances of them being missed now.
2. Revision delay. The product is not what the lead wanted, or of the quality they wanted, and needs to be revised.
3. Multiplied vicissitudes of life. Project delayed because "my animator was sick" or "my artist got sick".
4. Project lead's time is not in fact saved, it is transferred to team management. The lead does not have time to do more work at all. They are, in fact, doing less artistic work.
5. Too many cooks. Everyone has ideas, but they are not the lead's vision. Human nature makes it hard to say no. Strong leads are needed to reject "this could be neat" time sinks that don't fit the vision. Related to this--a sudden desire to get team approval that was never needed before.
6. The inclusion sink--all that time getting everyone on the same page and communicating; aka herding sheep.
7. The team member whose work is just not that good. We see this when games with great art, suddenly start having less great art.

The bigger teams become, the worse all of these risks become. Of course, targeted team additions under a strong lead can greatly enhance a product. The animator who adds a skill the lead just does not have, for example. Fresh ideas when the lead is going a bit stale. New enthusiasm when the lead is flagging. Or that diamond who really does have the same vision and skill as the lead.
 
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hampsure

Member
Dec 4, 2021
227
424
Boblet said:
detracts from the more natural development of characters and plots
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I did wonder about that as it's less of character quests and punishments and more something described as on rails. On the bright side, for those not interested it'll likely be easier to get through than having a large string of interconnected little quests you have to trigger individually which is usually the case to progress things. Now that I say it, it also sounds pretty good to me that way and I am interested, lol. Also, I'm not sure how much development is baked into this one week long event but it seems like it could be fairly significant even if it's not explicitly split into individual events. That said, I do hope most future events are generally of smaller scale though with the occasional grand one here or there.

Boblet said:
Another thing not mentioned that can impact development is team expansion
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It wasn't mentioned in the update or messages since, but It was mentioned in a broader context here:

Knight_of_the_lance said:
Honestly, if he wants to realeasse as much content with a bigger team for the first time and also "work under the hood" it will take more time, at least for the first and maybe secound releasse after the decision was made. Then the releasses will go up either on scale, quality or speed. It is just a basic principle of product manufacturing observed on all production lines over the world. Nothing new, nothing alarming, nothing worrying.
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I can also confirm that it's true in software development. It's just a fact of life that adding people to a dev team comes at the cost of slowing things down initially to hopefully increase capacity/output of the team longer term (assuming those people are a good fit and work out on the team).

Boblet said:
I am not saying this is the case here, but without a strong lead, team expansions can actually reduce quality and output
Click to expand...
In principle (not for this game specifically) I likely agree (as I've seen variations of most of those problems in my own jobs). If there's nobody properly steering the ship it's always going to be a problem (or if there aren't people in a position to let them know when they're veering too far off course).

When it comes to this game, I wasn't under the impression that this team had expanded drastically enough or have enough overlapping roles/duties for most of the issues you brought up to be likely for them though. Issue #4 could be the most valid to the extent that there will be more management involved which comes with overhead but should get easier over time and there are now people to delegate to that can hopefully handle some of the things that were taking up time previously (including non-dev work). There are always going to be pitfalls regardless of size of a team/organization (they just change). As to if existing issues (like the ones mentioned by the author for the last update) are helped or exacerbated I think only time will tell but I wouldn't expect a huge shift in either direction.
 
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Xantoser

Xantoser

Member
Apr 28, 2020
225
378
Boblet said:
I am also trepidatious that it is going to be a somewhat bloated insert that detracts from the more natural development of characters and plots.
Click to expand...
This. I didn't want to judge before I see this new content but after seeing screens I have concerns about it. I see nudity in school won't be an issue anymore, because it's everywhere. How it will fit to other scenarios and stories? We still don't have strip naked rule during punishments. We still don't have access to showers. We still don't have even lingerie medical checkup (not to mention naked). We still don't have strip naked search. All tension and feeling of achievement from these scenarios will be destroyed if everyone has seen everyone naked already.
Yes, I know - order of development doesn't mean that in final version events will have the same order, but still...
 
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TheDevian

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
14,254
33,430
Xantoser said:
This. I didn't want to judge before I see this new content but after seeing screens I have concerns about it. I see nudity in school won't be an issue anymore, because it's everywhere. How it will fit to other scenarios and stories? We still don't have strip naked rule during punishments. We still don't have access to showers. We still don't have even lingerie medical checkup (not to mention naked). We still don't have strip naked search. All tension and feeling of achievement from these scenarios will be destroyed if everyone has seen everyone naked already.
Yes, I know - order of development doesn't mean that in final version events will have the same order, but still...
Click to expand...
We have had access to the showers for two updates now, no...?
 
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ccxvidonaferens

Active Member
May 25, 2022
657
836
madchef said:
Do these two even have a full punishment system developed, they way that Amy, Debbie, Preeti and that what's-her-age?
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Depends on how you define 'full system'. Amy, Debbie, Preeti, Rachel and Cassandra have punishment systems implemented with the puzzle element and levels to be gained but Rachels is the only one that is 'complete' in that she is 'cured' of her problem. The other girls still have progress to be made in their 'education and self-actualisation' to become productive members of society.
 
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hampsure

Member
Dec 4, 2021
227
424
madchef said:
Do these two even have a full punishment system developed, they way that Amy, Debbie, Preeti and that what's-her-age?
Click to expand...
"that what's her age" :ROFLMAO:

ccxvidonaferens said:
Depends on how you define 'full system'. Amy, Debbie, Preeti, Rachel and Cassandra have punishment systems implemented with the puzzle element and levels to be gained but Rachels is the only one that is 'complete' in that she is 'cured' of her problem. The other girls still have progress to be made in their 'education and self-actualisation' to become productive members of society.
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Was just typing out pretty much the same, haha. The other girls mentioned (Amy, Debbie, Cassandra, and Priti) all get to a certain level (most around level 5 give or take) implemented in the punishment system and Rachel is the only one actually fully completed atm. The only thing I'd add is that I think some of Faye's progression in the punishment system will be expected in the update after the coming one.

Xantoser said:
I didn't want to judge before I see this new content but after seeing screens I have concerns about it. I see nudity in school won't be an issue anymore, because it's everywhere.
Click to expand...
I kinda worried about the same as well when looking at the promo images/message initially (so you're not alone in that)... like once we're to the point where everyone's running around completely naked all the time it would become markedly less interesting to me especially if everyone was suddenly fine with it somehow. After looking again it didn't seem as bad as my original worry though. It seems like most of the pictures in the promo are likely after there is some in-event build up to each and clearly some characters are way less comfortable with it than others. :sneaky: There's a couple characters I'm a tad surprised by the apparent boldness of but most seem to behaving pretty in character given what their progression and tendencies have been thus far. Hard to speculate too much based off of what we've seen and been told vs. how it'll play out (which doesn't mean we won't ;)).
 
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ccxvidonaferens

Active Member
May 25, 2022
657
836
Vlakom said:
Random question: Has any character or scene in-game ever acknowledged the country where this story takes part? I know it's obvious, there is a lot of hints but I don't know whether is something official or not.
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As far as I can recall there is no great 'billboard', for want of a better term, saying 'look at me, this is where I am' sort of thing. It is just heavily implied through context, language, use of certain colloquialisms (eg Over the pond) and at least one small reference to a location that is supposedly within the same country. Then again that lack of coming outright and saying just means it's easier for the player to place it in their heads wherever they want it to be happening I guess.
 
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Vlakom

Vlakom

Newbie
Aug 2, 2017
47
124
Random question: Has any character or scene in-game ever acknowledged the country where this story takes place? I know it's obvious enough, there is a lot of hints everywhere but I don't know whether is something official or not.
 
ElAguila

ElAguila

Member
Oct 22, 2021
101
114
Btw, I seem to find myself stuck again, this time with the opening of the cafeteria.
According to the WT:

Note: Make sure that you have completed the paperwork event “Maxine’s
demand”. If you build the cafeteria and recruit the dinner lady, but have
not completed Maxine’s demand, then Patricia will not actually start.
Instead, when you visit the cafeteria you will get the (slightly confusing)
message: “the cafeteria construction has been completed. I have a
restaurant manager now so I just need to wait for the construction to be
completed.”

I've done Maxine's demand according to the log, but I still don't get it opened. I've also done the recruitment of Patricia.
Is there something I must do that isn't mentioned in the WT?

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4.50 star(s) 263 Votes