Gato21

Active Member
Oct 16, 2021
951
2,777
On one hand, I am really excited to see that there is a set date for release, it looks like it's a lot of content, and I am sure I will really enjoy it. On the other, I really hope Altos considers shorter 3-4 month releases and holds himself to it. It wouldn't really matter to me the usual long release window if it was a small cast, but we are talking about a classroom and some of characters. In my opinion, the game would benefit from smaller, more frequent updates for individual girls; or large, infrequent updates, where multiple girls' stories, level, and punishment progress at the same time. I know he likes to go off on creative tangents, and I do enjoy them, but to realistically give each girl their fair share of limelight, within a reasonable time frame, he is going to have to do something different.
 

LegendBear

Member
Jul 9, 2018
301
417


Development Update 45
Hey guys,
The update is in the final stages and I am setting a firm release date for the beta version as May 5th. With the main release on May 12th and a public release on June 9th.
I can confidently say it's a great update, one of our biggest and best, blurring the boundaries between art, storytelling and pornography (if I do say so myself). The new content is very much for my patrons, requested by you guys and written with you all in mind. The girls are at an advanced level with tons of nudity and sexual content. There's a big set piece ending with no less than seven very horny students. That said, the update won't be quite what people are expecting. As a writer and artist, I have to follow my creative instincts, wherever they lead me. Meaning the final release is sometimes quite different from what I envisioned at the start. That has never been more true than with version 0.14. Most of what I ended up making wasn't even on the cards before our last poll. So, I think it’s time for me to reflect on the last six months or so, explain what happened and what you can actually expect.

Maxine’s fundraiser was chosen by a poll held last year by Mr Mykock (seen here at home with his personal secretary, Reilly).
I released version 0.13 all the way back in September last year. After the usual couple of weeks of bug fixing, a little time for organising a poll and a short holiday with the missus, it was time to crack straight on with version 0.14. I had ambitious plans for a quick update before the end of the year and I had my work cut out for me. The poll results had come in by this point and I had my brief for what to write for Maxine's fundraiser. People voted for the sponsored outfits option, where the girls would be sponsored to wear a series of risqué outfits to school, with the final “outfit” being nude and smoothly shaven. Writing a storyline where Maxine (a proud feminist) would agree to attend school completely naked and hairless from the neck down (plus somehow convincing a bunch of other girls to join her) was always going to be a challenge. However, this kind of thing is what I do best as a writer and I was confident I could figure something out.

It’s going to be an embarrassing week for Maxine that will test her sense of pride. Will she be able to complete the school’s owner's challenge and will she be able to convince her friends to join her?
So, it was early October (around the time of the last public release) when I first put my mind to solving this problem. Things went well at first, I had a plan and the words were flowing freely. However, the further I got into the storyline the further away I seemed to be from completing it. After a few weeks of focused writing, I was twenty thousand or so words in, yet I was still barely halfway through. Panic set in a little bit at this point as things were starting to spiral and I realised this was going to take me a lot longer than expected. However, I’d already invested quite a bit of time in it, I liked what I'd written and I got some positive feedback from my team. So I made the decision to press on.
By early November I felt like I had gotten things back under control. I had the base of the script done and split into five chapters, one for each day of the week. I began to make the renders and shared some of these as previews. Then around mid-November, I had a short hospital stay for surgery. The surgeon told me to expect a week's recovery in bed. Unfortunately, there were some complications, and I unexpectedly found myself unable to do much of anything for almost six weeks. Although I couldn't get much work done over this time, it did give me plenty of opportunity to think and what was still fresh on my mind at the time was the fundraiser. I felt quite happy with the script I’d written but I knew it could be better. The story had a lot of nudity but very little sexual content and this wouldn't do at all. So, as I lay recovering, I wracked my brain for several weeks, trying to figure out how to make it something really special. Over the tail end of my recovery, I ended up writing two more chapters, both happening on the Friday after the fundraiser ends but while the girls are still in their final "costumes".

Maxine and Ada’s relationship gets increasingly fractious across the week, culminating in a dramatic betrayal
So that was how Maxine's fundraiser accidentally ended up being a short novel. Almost 50,000 words and longer on its own than most of our previous updates. Should I have written such a long storyline? Probably not. Could I have made this storyline any shorter? Maybe, but it wouldn't have been anywhere near as good. In any case, there was no point in second-guessing past decisions. I had my script now and I was sure people would like it. I just needed to make all the images without falling too much further behind for time.
By early January I had finally recovered from the surgery and was back at my desk ready to start rendering the lengthy new script. So I set to work putting together the thousand or so images and dozens of animations I would need to pull it all off. I still had some important parts of the staff training storyline still to write and almost all of it left to render. However, I figured I would still have time once I'd gotten the fundraiser out of the way. As usual, though, I was over-ambitious. I thought I could make the whole lengthy script I'd written for the fundraiser and still get the staff training storyline completely finished by my self-imposed deadline at the end of April. Unfortunately, that hasn't proven to be the case. There will be plenty in the update other than the fundraiser, however, I am not going to have time for a second complete story arc. Therefore, the staff training storyline is going to have to be split between this update and the next.

Some of the girls struggle with distracting sexual thoughts and feelings over the course of the fundraiser. Fortunately, the headmaster will be there to help.
So my new plan is as follows: Version 0.14 will have the fundraiser, the beginning of the staff training storyline and some fun little extras. Version 0.15 will therefore be Faye's punishment system, the second part of the staff training and whatever people ask for in the next poll. I hesitate to say I made a mistake with the fundraiser because it is good. However, I have so much other content that I still need to make that I fully admit that I got sidetracked this time. Whether or not people end up enjoying the fundraiser, there were still a lot of lessons for me to learn from this experience. I will be holding another poll after this release. However, I am going to spend much more time beforehand planning each option out more carefully, to avoid a repeat of the fundraiser situation where things unintentionally spiralled.

These four girls will enjoy themselves a little more than the others over the course of the week.
So, I have a great update for everyone. It's just not the update anyone was expecting, with Maxine's fundraiser now forming the majority of the new content. Although the fundraiser is almost entirely linear, it takes place in multiple locations and spans an entire in-game week. So, although the player will be "on the rails", it won't feel that way. It should feel like a regular game week with time in the headmaster's office, the courtyard, the cafeteria, and the classroom and there is even a Friday board meeting. Almost all the girls appear to some degree or another. Many of them spend the day at school in a variety of revealing outfits. With eleven of them completely nude and smoothly-shaven on the final day (not all voluntarily). Several of them end up in the headmaster’s office for some sexy fun. There are a lot of funny moments, a few darker ones, a shit ton of nudity and constant sexiness throughout. There's only one cum shot for the headmaster right at the end but it will be spectacular and well worth the wait.

There will be some more patrol events featuring unnamed extras, including this naughty girl caught climbing over a fence.
I am relieved to say that the fundraiser part of the update is well and truly done now. My team is busy working on quality control, leaving me free to focus on adding more content right up until release day. I have a lot of scenes written, storyboarded and ready to capture. So I'm going to be having a frantic blitz to add in as many short scenes as I can, to balance out the long and linear fundraiser storyline. We will definitely see the beginning of the staff training storyline, which will have plenty of excitement right from the get-go (including a new threesome with Debbie and Rachel). Plus there will be some new mini-patrol events, like the lost lens and stretching ones from the last update.

There have been some big improvements to the quest log, including better notifications.
In addition to new content, there have been some really major code changes behind the scenes. The most significant change recently is that the quest log has been completely remade from the ground up. As well as being more stable and easier to code, this has also allowed us to create better quest notifications. Rather than a single line of text to say that a quest has been updated, you'll be shown which quest has been updated with a link to the full quest log. A much-needed quality of life improvement. The guys have also been working on fixing dozens of minor continuity errors (e.g. characters reacting as if you haven’t given them a certain punishment before, even though you have), adding missed content (e.g. Amy’s public punishment in her underwear) and extra details (such as the headmaster’s photo album or more character log entries). Overall the game should feel more polished and more immersive.
So, the next update is just around the corner. You guys will next hear from me when it is done on either May 5th for the Teacher tier ($10), or May 12th for Teaching Assistants ($5).
Altos
Is there a larger image of the header for this post?
 

Satyr

Member
Jul 22, 2018
109
168
Another patreon poll driven game. Once the Whales get ahold of the "epic new artful story!!!" they'll get bored and move on to wanting more and more and more new stuff. Several faculty and students haven't been updated in years. Maxine is literally the least interesting character, and certainly not in the top most attractive, and such a late addition it's pretty silly to solely focus on her, but that's where the money talks i guess.
 

Cartageno

Devoted Member
Dec 1, 2019
8,766
14,874
Another patreon poll driven game. Once the Whales get ahold of the "epic new artful story!!!" they'll get bored and move on to wanting more and more and more new stuff. Several faculty and students haven't been updated in years. Maxine is literally the least interesting character, and certainly not in the top most attractive, and such a late addition it's pretty silly to solely focus on her, but that's where the money talks i guess.
Of course the money talks, but I wonder more about you calling Maxine a "late addition" - she was there from the beginning and had a bit of storyline as well already at the start (student council president, weekend rally) so that she would get more content sooner or later shouldn't be surprising. In fact I'd say she was one of the "several (...) students haven't been updated in years" herself, even if it wasn't that intentional she would get a focus now.

As for "least interesting" I strongly disagree, I would put that (as of now, can always change with more story) to Alice, but tastes differ.

I am not too big a fan of patreon polls myself and prefer that devs just "do their thing", but again, Maxine's story wasn't so much a patreon thing but more of a dev thing.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
14,254
33,429
Of course the money talks, but I wonder more about you calling Maxine a "late addition" - she was there from the beginning and had a bit of storyline as well already at the start (student council president, weekend rally) so that she would get more content sooner or later shouldn't be surprising. In fact I'd say she was one of the "several (...) students haven't been updated in years" herself, even if it wasn't that intentional she would get a focus now.

As for "least interesting" I strongly disagree, I would put that (as of now, can always change with more story) to Alice, but tastes differ.

I am not too big a fan of patreon polls myself and prefer that devs just "do their thing", but again, Maxine's story wasn't so much a patreon thing but more of a dev thing.
Even if I didn't like Maxine, this story arc sounds amazing, so I can't wait for it...
 

ccxvidonaferens

Active Member
May 25, 2022
657
836
As for "least interesting" I strongly disagree, I would put that (as of now, can always change with more story) to Alice, but tastes differ.
I agree with you. To my mind it seem's when people complain about characters being 'the least interesting', not just in this game but other titles here plus some tv, books and movies it usually correlates with directly to characters that have had no focus/development. Maxine, Alice or maybe one or two others at the moment may be in the running for 'least interesting' but that is solely because we know next to sod all about them or what makes them tick.
 

Xantoser

Member
Apr 28, 2020
225
378
Another patreon poll driven game. Once the Whales get ahold of the "epic new artful story!!!" they'll get bored and move on to wanting more and more and more new stuff.
I am not too big a fan of patreon polls myself and prefer that devs just "do their thing"
I don't understand this model. Developer starts developing a game from scratch, having zero patreons. After some time he gains patreons and he gains them because he makes good content without good advises from anyone. Suddenly, at some point, he starts asking patreons about opinions because he is afraid that otherwise patreons would stop subscribing? Even if they started subscribing at a point of time, when the game didn't have any content based on their opinions? It's illogical.
These polls really annoy me, especially when I am patreon myself. I am backing someone because I want to see creator's work and not others patreons' ideas. Not to mention that very often these ideas force creator to make things on the fly, breaking story's pacing and coherence.
 

pothb

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2018
1,250
1,371
I understand it. Playing to your audience is a good thing. People support your work, and you want to pay extra attention to those that do. Just because they are willing to add things their supporter also want, doesn't mean that they'll kill their own vision. It can, but the 2 are not equivalent.
 
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Gato21

Active Member
Oct 16, 2021
951
2,777
I understand it. Playing to your audience is a good thing. People support your work, and you want to pay extra attention to those that do. Just because they are willing to add things their supporter also want, doesn't mean that they'll kill their own vision. It can, but the 2 are not equivalent.
True, but it does have a tendency to turn out that way. I'd much prefer if it was custom renders or something like that, versus a version dictated by the crowd.
 

Cartageno

Devoted Member
Dec 1, 2019
8,766
14,874
I don't understand this model. Developer starts developing a game from scratch, having zero patreons. After some time he gains patreons and he gains them because he makes good content without good advises from anyone. Suddenly, at some point, he starts asking patreons about opinions because he is afraid that otherwise patreons would stop subscribing? Even if they started subscribing at a point of time, when the game didn't have any content based on their opinions? It's illogical.
These polls really annoy me, especially when I am patreon myself. I am backing someone because I want to see creator's work and not others patreons' ideas. Not to mention that very often these ideas force creator to make things on the fly, breaking story's pacing and coherence.
I understand it. Playing to your audience is a good thing. People support your work, and you want to pay extra attention to those that do. Just because they are willing to add things their supporter also want, doesn't mean that they'll kill their own vision. It can, but the 2 are not equivalent.
I think it may depend on the type of polling. Some polls are more or less inconsequential for the game ("Which hairstyle should I use for this model?", "Should the character be named Anna or Emma?", "Should I first create storyline A and then storyline B or the other way round" - the latter in some sandbox game where both storylines will come and play out the same in the finished game). Those I generally mind less. I may have preferences on names and looks or similar, and thus even feel involved - though usually I will lose those polls.

And then there are very major storyline decisions. "Should a harem be possible?", "Should there be NTR?", "Do you want a futa character?". These I dislike as well, and "dislike" is only the polite term for "hate". These are things the dev has to decide: what story do they want to tell, and even if they don't know yet for sure, what would gel better with the overall idea. There's a reason why successful movies don't poll on "Who should be the killer?", successful singers don't ask "Should I write a song about New York or about Los Angeles?" - you're relegating yourself to a service provider for a fickle majority of random people.

I intentionally chose extreme examples because I don't want to think about where the dividing line lies - but better err on the side of caution and just go with the shorter haircut. If your game is good enough, people/patreons won't drop like flies.
 

Dragon59

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 24, 2020
6,699
10,960
I don't understand this model. Developer starts developing a game from scratch, having zero patreons. After some time he gains patreons and he gains them because he makes good content without good advises from anyone. Suddenly, at some point, he starts asking patreons about opinions because he is afraid that otherwise patreons would stop subscribing? Even if they started subscribing at a point of time, when the game didn't have any content based on their opinions? It's illogical.
These polls really annoy me, especially when I am patreon myself. I am backing someone because I want to see creator's work and not others patreons' ideas. Not to mention that very often these ideas force creator to make things on the fly, breaking story's pacing and coherence.
I have an alternative scenario.
In my contemporary polyamorous story, I have all the main arcs and sub-arcs planned out. I would not be as likely to poll patrons. The same would probably hold for Pilgrimage to Earth. Since the science fiction story is based upon classic literature, I will probably follow the events in the inspiration.

My steampunk story is a different case. The initial mission is critical to start the protagonist's major arc. Other than that, there are a number of mission/adventure/exploration scenarios. In such cases, I might poll patrons to see which of my planned scenarios to do next.

So yes, there are times when a developer may poll supporters without giving up the power to them. That said, I would agree that too many developers rely upon polling when they are losing their their own vision (whether from a lack of inspiration or trying to maximize support).
 

hampsure

Member
Dec 4, 2021
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Even if I didn't like Maxine, this story arc sounds amazing, so I can't wait for it...
Maxine is one of the characters I do have interest in getting more content for even if she's not at the top of my list. Still, while it may be some of the most interesting stuff I've heard about in a while, I think you may be overselling it a bit. To me, the update does sound interesting but there's also a lot that just doesn't sound as exciting as I think it's meant to... then again, I need to keep in mind just how good of a knack these devs have had for making things sexy. :sneaky: We'll see, but I do hope you're right.

Regarding a separtate part of the update...

I'm glad to hear that there's a realization of the issues with over-ambitiousness and scope creep (which have been issues for a lot longer than this new update) and that lessons were learned, but I know all too well these are can be quite difficult tendencies to reign in especially when it's on an individual to make that change themselves and there aren't enough other people involved to help plan and keep that stuff in check (which also creates overhead in and of itself when it does exist). I certainly appreciate the passion and the level of quality aspired to but combined with the sheer scope and number of characters/storylines the over-ambition could easily continue to be one of the main pain points in this game's progress. As long as the devs can stay dedicated to seeing it through I'll continue to try to remain hopeful about the future of it though. I am really looking forward to revisiting the game at some point with somewhat fresh eyes and getting to enjoy it all (again).

To my mind it seem's when people complain about characters being 'the least interesting', not just in this game but other titles here plus some tv, books and movies it usually correlates with directly to characters that have had no focus/development.
Largely agreed on this though some characters can also be extremely uninteresting even when we do know stuff about them (and may wish we didn't). A lot of modern media is filled with uninteresting characters these days. :ROFLMAO: In some things I often find side characters more interesting than the main characters. In this game I've come to find certain characters less interesting personally despite a couple of them having a lot more content than other characters that I do find more interesting, which is the point where it really comes down to taste. Admittedly there are some with extremely thin characterization though to your original point. Harriet, for example... has she gotten any development beyond her connection to business and her friends? (genuine question as I haven't played in a good while) Maxine I'd put somewhere in the lower portion of the middle of the pack in terms of development but at least we know a good bit about the type of person she tries to be.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
14,254
33,429
Maxine is one of the characters I do have interest in getting more content for even if she's not at the top of my list. Still, while it may be some of the most interesting stuff I've heard about in a while, I think you may be overselling it a bit. To me, the update does sound interesting but there's also a lot that just doesn't sound as exciting as I think it's meant to... then again, I need to keep in mind just how good of a knack these devs have had for making things sexy. :sneaky: We'll see, but I do hope you're right.
It depends on what you like, you know? Everyone has different kinks, and mine tend to get either ignored in most games, or they get paired with things I don't like, so to have most of this arc focused on it, sounds great to me. Only better, would be to do Liz's arc.
 

hampsure

Member
Dec 4, 2021
227
424
So yes, there are times when a developer may poll supporters without giving up the power to them. That said, I would agree that too many developers rely upon polling when they are losing their their own vision (whether from a lack of inspiration or trying to maximize support).
I also think there's a difference when it comes to what type of community is built from those funding the game, what type of engagement there is, and what the expectations become. Cultivating a type of engagement with the community that funds the games that the author feels a high level of responsibility towards keeping happy and engaged (despite how it may or may not affect the game) can become an issue of it's own depending on how they're catered to. Once expectations are set it's hard to start taking things away without people being unhappy.

Everyone has different kinks, and mine tend to get either ignored in most games, or they get paired with things I don't like, so to have most of this arc focused on it, sounds great to me.
For sure! Didn't mean to diminish yours or your excitement. By all means, enjoy! :) There are definitely parts the of Maxine arc that should appeal to a couple of my favorites as well. ;)
 

Dragon59

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 24, 2020
6,699
10,960
I also think there's a difference when it comes to what type of community is built from those funding the game, what type of engagement there is, and what the expectations become. Cultivating a type of engagement with the community that funds the games that the author feels a high level of responsibility towards keeping happy and engaged (despite how it may or may not affect the game) can become an issue of it's own depending on how they're catered to. Once expectations are set it's hard to start taking things away without people being unhappy.
Agreed. One particular case I remember are developers who give the power of deciding the course of the story to the top donors, those who have paid extra to include content that the vast majority of players are not in favor of. This seems like chasing the $100+ donors while pissing off all the rest of the donors. I can't see this as a viable long-term plan. It smells like a short=term scheme to maximize profits before the whole structure collapses.
It depends on what you like, you know? Everyone has different kinks, and mine tend to get either ignored in most games, or they get paired with things I don't like, so to have most of this arc focused on it, sounds great to me. Only better, would be to do Liz's arc.
For sure! Didn't mean to diminish yours or your excitement. By all means, enjoy! :) There are definitely parts the of Maxine arc that should appeal to a couple of my favorites as well. ;)
Some of my projects (like "Enchanted Night in France" and "Dirty Snowball") will be short stories focused on one particular kink or event. That way I'm not trying to accommodate all kinks and all vanilla in the same VN.
 

raven54

Newbie
Sep 12, 2022
47
114
As a writer and artist, I have to follow my creative instincts, wherever they lead me. Meaning the final release is sometimes quite different from what I envisioned at the start. That has never been more true than with version 0.14.
I called this.

For the time being I'm not sure I trust any roadmap. Even roadmaps announced by Altos himself could be subject to change, particularly if the announcement is old and there have been time to rethink ideas. In fact I would prefer an altered roadmap if it turns out to provide a better result.
The thing is, game development is somewhat fluid in the sense that once you work and shape your goals, you end up looking into details nobody considered during planning. Sometimes this makes you go with the flow and see where it will take you. This is presumably particularly true for story writing. Feeling too much of an obligation to a roadmap will prevent going with the flow when a better outcome presents itself along the way.

Panic set in a little bit at this point as things were starting to spiral and I realised this was going to take me a lot longer than expected. However, I’d already invested quite a bit of time in it
The focus on spent time is an odd one. Say a company spends $5 million building their own solution to something and it doesn't work. They will need at least $30 million more. They can scrap it all and buy a commercial solution for $20 million and the commercial solution is better than anything they can make themselves. A surprisingly high amount of people will stick to the homemade solution because otherwise the $5 million would be wasted.

Time spent on Maxine is of little concern in the long run. What matters is the quality of the story. Decisions on how to proceed should be based on the end result and how much effort it takes to go from the current position to the end result. If say there is a chapter where aliens shows up and starts abducting the girls, then it would have to go. It doesn't matter how long it took to write it because what matters is that it would destroy the story since it doesn't fit in.

Having said that, the decision to move on with the fundraiser story despite it being longer than planned seems to be based on story quality. It wasn't my first choice for a story update as I'm not a fan of Maxine, but that just mean it will take less to make me pleasantly surprised.

Not to get off on a complete tangent, but this reminded me I recently saw something on how the first Elder Scrolls game (Arena - which I had a physical copy of back in the day but never got that into) came to be and how much (and many times) it changed during development. It's interesting stuff to learn about and often explains a lot about why things turn out the way they do.
Last post about this because it's off topic. If you are interested in stories like this, then look into Game Developers Conference (GDC). They have plenty of videos on youtube with game developers hosting lectures about development of their own games.
 

Cartageno

Devoted Member
Dec 1, 2019
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:love:

In some things I often find side characters more interesting than the main characters.
I agree, and would have done so 30 years ago with some TV series I watched back then. My reasoning always was that too much spotlight takes out the mystery while you can project all kind of interesting stuff on side characters of whom you know just enough to get started. (Well, and who are at least somewhat interesting to begin with.)

The focus on spent time is an odd one. Say a company spends $5 million building their own solution to something and it doesn't work. They will need at least $30 million more. They can scrap it all and buy a commercial solution for $20 million and the commercial solution is better than anything they can make themselves. A surprisingly high amount of people will stick to the homemade solution because otherwise the $5 million would be wasted.
The so called "sunk costs fallacy", info available on the webs. Although private people are prone to it at some level too. Bought a ticket for an event of any kind but know you won't enjoy it because something happened? Don't go, the money is gone anyway. Many people will feel obliged to go though.
 

anybodyhi55

Newbie
Jul 22, 2022
33
10
Cheers!
Haven't had that event yet.



Ruth is still being a bitch, yes. lol
You just have to find the computer and look into the secret folder of the old headmaster and find the secret file there to blackmail Ruth she'll stop bitching and you'll be able to pass the rule
Idk how it's triggered as the other person said above maybe Mycock will come and then the scene starts ?i used the journal to figure out almost everything but as the part 1 comes to an end i found it difficult to shift to part 2 that's all
 
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ElAguila

Member
Oct 22, 2021
101
114
You just have to find the computer and look into the secret folder of the old headmaster and find the secret file there to blackmail Ruth she'll stop bitching and you'll be able to pass the rule
Idk how it's triggered as the other person said above maybe Mycock will come and then the scene starts ?i used the journal to figure out almost everything but as the part 1 comes to an end i found it difficult to shift to part 2 that's all
Yep, the safe and the secret computer files solved everything. Just had the board meeting that subsequently starts chapter 2 as I understand it.
Thanks for the help!
 

CuteLilNori

Newbie
Sep 10, 2022
71
88
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Oh boi! I can imagine how difficult it used to be for the HM to keep the sleepy Rachel stay awake to focus on the lesson, back then the "remove skirt during puniment" rule hadn't been passed and he wasn't allowed to spank the girls himself. And even the little spanking from Ms. Newman wouldn't be enough to keep her awake, I can bet that after the spanking she'll be fallen asleep back again when she went back to seat :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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