Wolf RPG Completed The Hero Trial [Full Moon Higure]

[grgrgr5]

I'm glad you are sharing your advice and bringing a new perspective on things. Thank you grgrgr5

No problem! I am absolutely in love with this game. It left a hole not even Lulu Farea or the sequel could fill for me. I always jump at the chance to talk about it

By the way, I've been reading your guide on Lulu Farea 2. So detailed! I really fell into a pit favoring buying shields and getting shields from Myuu, but now realize how much of a trap it was. I'm gonna try again on hard (after a week or so break) with those things in mind.

 

[Hajtand]

I couldn't quite wrap my head around the first strat... but going through it. I see that it wastes—4 keys. Fighting the Eastern goblins before the slime and before the -1000hp upgrade makes them do around 100-150 more damage than they should. By doing this you save around 100 HP against the slimes, but use around 300 HP to make it happen. So a 200HP net negative.

 

[Hajtand]

No problem! I am absolutely in love with this game. It left a hole not even Lulu Farea or the sequel could fill for me. I always jump at the chance to talk about it

By the way, I've been reading your guide on Lulu Farea 2. So detailed! I really fell into a pit favoring buying shields and getting shields from Myuu, but now realize how much of a trap it was. I'm gonna try again on hard (after a week or so break) with those things in mind.

Thank you for the kind words.

I also made an obsolete guide back in the days on ULMF for the first one. When I was around halfway through the darn thing. I noticed my HP wasn't adding up chocolate softice emoji indeed. I was really nervous about starting the guide for the sequel as I feared, it would happen again... and it did. Numerous times. One miss step or oversight and finding that mistake as the consequences were first felt several dungeons later. Destroyed several days worth of work. Quite nerve wrecking.

Then there was also the problem of whether to change the entire thing again. As I deviced new strategies. I think, I spend around 150 hours on the walkthrough. That is writing/rewriting and taking notes. I probably spend more time theory crafting. As I stated in the addendum of the walkthrough. I also found a bug with how the bomb damage was calculated towards the score. I chose to not rewrite the entire thing again again again again again. I was about to lose my mind. I did, however, have fun.

With the bosses, the area themes, and slightly more leeway with the solutions. It felt like a true adventure. This game (The Hero Trial) feels more... mean. I consider some of the solutions almost slimey, as you are forced to weasel your way out of a tough spot. What really gets to me, is how liberal they want you to be with the key usage. The second area already set the tone. There is no getting around having to use the middle path. The game wants you to think there's a chance by fighting the mobs on the sides, but there's simply not enough hp.

 

[grgrgr5]

I couldn't quite wrap my head around the first strat... but going through it. I see that it wastes—4 keys. Fighting the Eastern goblins before the slime and before the -1000hp upgrade makes them do around 100-150 more damage than they should. By doing this you save around 100 HP against the slimes, but use around 300 HP to make it happen. So a 200HP net negative.

Hmm.. when you fight those goblins (before the slimes), they should only be doing about 70 dmg.

Edit: The first one does 90 dmg, the second one does 72 dmg.

Edit 2: The thing is, you will need to fight those goblins afterward anyway to clear the way to the north gates. Fighting them first saves more hp on the slimes (and 1 cat blocking the def before fighting the slimes) than you will save on fighting the goblins right after. So after the south gates, it's go back down for the 3 def all the way south, go back up to fight 2 goblins blocking the 2 atk and 2 def, go back down and fight the cat blocking 1 def, and then the slimes should do 20 dmg. Fight the slimes, then open the north gates to get the hp to do the -1000 [!]. This puts you in very good shape to proceed.

 

[Hajtand]

How can they deal that little damage? Having taken the first H tile and scavenged the first and second area and not the having defeated the slimes yet. You should be around 21 in attack and 17 in defense. Even after you have taken everything behind the slime gates and the rest of the upgrades from the first area. They still manage to do 80 in damage. Provided you didn't do anything in the Western and Eastern path.

 

[grgrgr5]

How can they deal that little damage? Having taken the first H tile and scavenged the first and second area and not the having defeated the slimes yet. You should be around 21 in attack and 17 in defense. Even after you have taken everything behind the slime gates and the rest of the upgrades from the first area. They still manage to do 80 in damage. Provided you didn't do anything in the Western and Eastern path.

Hmm.. let me trace my steps to see if we are on the same path.. after room 2 you have 2 hp (entering main area for first time)

- opened 3 gates at very top (yellow keys) to get loot
- used -300 [!]
- kill all 0 hp goblins collect loot
- kill cat blocking 1 atk, then cat blocking key
- buy key
- In eastern room, use first key to get 1 atk, use second key to get 1 atk, 1 def, and 1 key
- with key, go all the way south to collect 3 def behind door
- come back up and goblin is 90 hp, kill him for 1 atk, next goblin is 72 hp

 

[Hajtand]

I did indeed not account for going to the Eastern room.

Here is why I think it's a bad trade:

Spoiler: Eastern room 2 keys spend following instructions

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Spoiler: Optimal path not using 2 keys

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You effectively spend 2 yellow keys to save 100 HP. Combined they are worth at least 500 HP at this stage. The biggest win here is the easier access down the line skipping having to deal with the bird. Which is around 250 HP more saved later in the area. But the reason you'd want to go there later is because of the 2 keys, which we've just spend. Hmm. I'll try and experiment some more.

 

[grgrgr5]

I did indeed not account for going to the Eastern room.

Here is why I think it's a bad trade:

Spoiler: Eastern room 2 keys spend following instructions

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Spoiler: Optimal path not using 2 keys

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You effectively spend 2 yellow keys to save 100 HP. Combined they are worth at least 500 HP at this stage. The biggest win here is the easier access down the line skipping having to deal with the bird. Which is around 250 HP more saved later in the area. But the reason you'd want to go there later is because of the 2 keys, which we've just spend. Hmm. I'll try and experiment some more.

I can't seem to figure out how to take screenshots. How do you do it? Edit: Oh it's print screen nevermind

I am not exactly sure what I am seeing, but one difference I can see right away is that we are attacking different goblins. I go for the ones on the left, to get the attack.

Other than that the 2 keys should save you far more than 100 hp.. I'll try to figure out what is so different in our approaches.

 

[grgrgr5]

I'm still a bit confused, but I think I have a question that could clear things up.

What ELSE can you use those 2 keys on to gain you a greater advantage?

I'm thinking you might have (understandably) a Lulu Farea mindset going here where you are trying to save resources for later on. And that mindset is preventing you from wanting to make necessary sacrifices. Saving only 100 hp is still better than saving no hp if you have no better use for those keys. In my strategy, I fight none of the birds. So effectively I am only using 1 key, as I gain a key back that can only be obtained by fighting a bird. I think you are thinking that the bird can be fought later on to gain a key. That may be holding you back. This area doesn't give you the luxury of thinking of the future. Like you said, the game is mean.

 

[Hajtand]

I'm still a bit confused, but I think I have a question that could clear things up.

What ELSE can you use those 2 keys on to gain you a greater advantage?

I'm thinking you might have (understandably) a Lulu Farea mindset going here where you are trying to save resources for later on. And that mindset is preventing you from wanting to make necessary sacrifices. Saving only 100 hp is still better than saving no hp if you have no better use for those keys. In my strategy, I fight none of the birds. So effectively I am only using 1 key, as I gain a key back that can only be obtained by fighting a bird. I think you are thinking that the bird can be fought later on to gain a key. That may be holding you back. This area doesn't give you the luxury of thinking of the future. Like you said, the game is mean.

The difference ultimately ends up being at least from how I did it. Having to take a health upgrade on the 2 key path vs an attack upgrade on the no key path. In the no key path you get access to both sides of the third area with the extra keys. It ends up kind of snowballing.

 

[Hajtand]

The attack upgrade behind the goblin on the Eastern path is taken not long afterwards. Overall I got better results from going for the defense upgrade first. The slimes only dealt 16 damage I think or was it 18.

 

[grgrgr5]

The attack upgrade behind the goblin on the Eastern path is taken not long afterwards. Overall I got better results from going for the defense upgrade first. The slimes only dealt 16 damage I think or was it 18.

I think you may be right here. My old strat had me with more hp (67) at the end than the current strat does (53). I think it may be due to not having gone for the defense. Both will still get you past the ogres though it seems.

 

[grgrgr5]

The attack upgrade behind the goblin on the Eastern path is taken not long afterwards. Overall I got better results from going for the defense upgrade first. The slimes only dealt 16 damage I think or was it 18.

I've been trying to recover my old strat of ending with 67. I got up to 65 just now. I don't know where I lost that 2 hp. My conclusion though is that you are right to go with the goblins on the right hand side to get the defense instead of the attack.

Did you get past the ogres? The next area is pretty cool. It's less brutal and allows for a more flexible strategy.

 

[Hajtand]

I've been trying to recover my old strat of ending with 67. I got up to 65 just now. I don't know where I lost that 2 hp. My conclusion though is that you are right to go with the goblins on the right hand side to get the defense instead of the attack.

Did you get past the ogres? The next area is pretty cool. It's less brutal and allows for a more flexible strategy.

I got past the ogres, though I had more HP left. I'm just taking a little break from the game. I'll give it another go, when I have the time.

 

[grgrgr5]

I got past the ogres, though I had more HP left. I'm just taking a little break from the game. I'll give it another go, when I have the time.

Oh wow, how much HP?

 

[Hajtand]

Oh wow, how much HP?

I think, it was a little over 200HP.

 

[grgrgr5]

I think, it was a little over 200HP.

I won't bother you further about it for now (though I'm super curious lol). I get all too well the need to take a break from even thinking about this game. But when you are interested again, it'd be great if you could let me know how you achieved that. You either did something drastically different and superior or combined a relatively equal strat with farming the birds for more HP. Anyway nice work!

 

[Hajtand]

It was farming the birds for HP. This overall strat allowed me to get away with having higher stats in the end and I ended up taking less damage from the ogres. I'm still not sure. I keep having this nagging feeling I'm missing something. Albeit it's the same feeling I get from that, as I get from having, to waste a key on the middle gate in the second area.

I was tired yesterday. The screenshots doesn't do your strategy justice as I didn't follow it to the letter. I first saw your message after I posted mine. I tried a little today to make some other strategies with your method to work and it looks okay. I still had to fight one HP guarding bird to have enough HP. So I probably did something wrong. You do buy a defensive upgrade, when you have the money after buying the key in your strat right?

What's your take on the third area? I think, that's where we do things quite differently. Taking the offensive path on the Eastern path on the no key strat will have you meet the new breaking point of the goblin warriors with 40atk faster. The damage reduction on the 2 key path before the slimes still nets a greater result overall.

 

[Hajtand]

I tried a lot of different strategies in order to buy two stat increases from the shop instead of buying an early key. To my great annoyance it's just barely not feasable. Would have been huge.

 

[grgrgr5]

It was farming the birds for HP. This overall strat allowed me to get away with having higher stats in the end and I ended up taking less damage from the ogres. I'm still not sure. I keep having this nagging feeling I'm missing something. Albeit it's the same feeling I get from that, as I get from having, to waste a key on the middle gate in the second area.

I was tired yesterday. The screenshots doesn't do your strategy justice as I didn't follow it to the letter. I first saw your message after I posted mine. I tried a little today to make some other strategies with your method to work and it looks okay. I still had to fight one HP guarding bird to have enough HP. So I probably did something wrong. You do buy a defensive upgrade, when you have the money after buying the key in your strat right?

What's your take on the third area? I think, that's where we do things quite differently. Taking the offensive path on the Eastern path on the no key strat will have you meet the new breaking point of the goblin warriors with 40atk faster. The damage reduction on the 2 key path before the slimes still nets a greater result overall.

Oh ok you farmed the birds. That makes sense. I thought you had found a radically different strategy. In my thinking, attacking the birds always seemed wasteful. Taking 200 dmg to gain 300 HP. I instead save that healing for the next area, once the birds do less (or zero) dmg. In my strategy I never attack a single bird. The first Ogre for me does 666 dmg (seems like a hint that it might be optimal).


As you may notice from the image, the atk behind the spirit is not taken as it does not achieve a breakpoint. Edit: This was from an experimental run. My mistake.

Yes, after using the first 20 gold on a key, the next 40 gold is used on defense. I make a big chunk of that gold the moment the helmet goblins and cats do 0 dmg. (which comes immediately following killing the 3 grouped spirits blocking the 3 def)

My take on the next area is that it is far more flexible and forgiving. Note I have never really looked into which path might be optimal, rather I've just played several times to see which strategies work and which do not. So I cannot say which side is optimal between the defense side or the offense side. This decision clearly affects the rest of the game. But I can tell you that both sides are viable. You won't be locked out of completing the game for choosing the "wrong" side. But the decision greatly effects how you will navigate the next two areas.