VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[Maviarab]

I don't agree with him being moron he is a high ranking Templar, he cannot climb that place without being smart enough to play dirty especially in such a corrupt hierarchy but I can agree with him not being the mastermind behind all of it. He is probably being a puppet in the hands of some third party but he is thinking he is winning the game. Like Sun Tzu said appear weak when you are strong. His unwillingness to help MC is also a giveaway, I think.

and try and screw the MC over breaking his precious oath.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

I don't agree with him being moron he is a high ranking Templar, he cannot climb that place without being smart enough to play dirty especially in such a corrupt hierarchy but I can agree with him not being the mastermind behind all of it. He is probably being a puppet in the hands of some third party but he is thinking he is winning the game. Like Sun Tzu said appear weak when you are strong. His unwillingness to help MC is also a giveaway, I think.

I stand corrected. Moron wasn't the right word but I don't think he is a mastermind behind things.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

I don't agree with him being moron he is a high ranking Templar, he cannot climb that place without being smart enough to play dirty especially in such a corrupt hierarchy but I can agree with him not being the mastermind behind all of it. He is probably being a puppet in the hands of some third party but he is thinking he is winning the game. Like Sun Tzu said appear weak when you are strong. His unwillingness to help MC is also a giveaway, I think.

And that just means that he's a bigger moron than the others.

 

[ThorinKing]

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

and try and screw the MC over breaking his precious oath.

Their oath is only to be followed if it serves them, so nothing new in that front.

I stand corrected. Moron wasn't the right word but I don't think he is a mastermind behind things.

Yeah I agree, probably he will be discarded when he served his purpose.

And that just means that he's a bigger moron than the others.

Yeah, that makes him a moron, isn't it? He can't be bigger than Kaija though. I never understood these cult devotees, think for a second damn it.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Their oath is only to be followed if it serves them, so nothing new in that front.


Yeah I agree, probably he will be discarded when he served his purpose.


Yeah, that makes him a moron, isn't it? He can't be bigger than Kaija though. I never understood these cult devotees, think for a second damn it.

Hang on just as you convinced me I was wrong about a Templar being a moron, now you say they are morons? Are you sure you aren't a woman in disguise?

I understand the psychology of cult members, I just don't want to succumb to it.

The reality in Neverwhere's world is the Templars are the gateway between the human world and everywhere else. So they need to exist because some of those other realms would rain untold havoc on the human world without the balance the Templars keep. The Templars need to exist. So our mistreated hero needs to make a decision. Either the Templars need to have a reformation or a new entity put in their place. Which way should the narrative go?

Personally, I think a reformation is in order. No matter what organisation controls the gateways to Neverwhere, they will be filled with humans. Humans have a bad habit of messing stuff up especially over long periods of time no matter how good their intentions are. So I don't think disbanding them serves any purpose in the long run. Its much easier to reform them.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

Yeah, that makes him a moron, isn't it? He can't be bigger than Kaija though. I never understood these cult devotees, think for a second damn it.

At this moment you have to ask yourself one question:
Is the bigger moron the one in charge of all the other morons, or are the ones not in charge the bigger ones for followin the moron in charge?

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

At this moment you have to ask yourself one question:
Is the bigger moron the one in charge of all the other morons, or are the ones not in charge the bigger ones for followin the moron in charge?

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Hang on just as you convinced me I was wrong about a Templar being a moron, now you say they are morons? Are you sure you aren't a woman in disguise?

Different kind of moron.

The reality in Neverwhere's world is the Templars are the gateway between the human world and everywhere else. So they need to exist because some of those other realms would rain untold havoc on the human world without the balance the Templars keep. The Templars need to exist. So our mistreated hero needs to make a decision. Either the Templars need to have a reformation or a new entity put in their place. Which way should the narrative go?

Personally, I think a reformation is in order. No matter what organisation controls the gateways to Neverwhere, they will be filled with humans. Humans have a bad habit of messing stuff up especially over long periods of time no matter how good their intentions are. So I don't think disbanding them serves any purpose in the long run. Its much easier to reform them.

Elves offer was disassembling Templars and closing the gates to Neverwhere. Which means closing the gates is possible. Also as Linnae said that place is wretched place and as far as we have introduced it has no real benefits to humanity except people do illegal stuff, so shutting it down has no downside to it. As far as I understood, Templars are just guard dogs for rich wrecthed people. They don't even protect people get killed by those people just because they talked about it.
So if we ever given an option, I hope we will have it, I am gonna choose the demise of Templars. You can't reform something as corrupted as Templars, if you really want to make it right you need to topple it down and rebuild something else in its place.

I understand the psychology of cult members, I just don't want to succumb to it.

I've met some people in cults, shady organisations and even after they explained themselves, I never managed to understand them. I have no sympathy towards them to be honest if they are willing participant like Kaija here and not coerced in it.

 

[Maviarab]

So if we ever given an option, I hope we will have it, I am gonna choose the demise of Templars. You can't reform something as corrupted as Templars, if you really want to make it right you need to topple it down and rebuild something else in its place.

Down with them I say!

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Down with them I say!

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Different kind of moron.


Elves offer was disassembling Templars and closing the gates to Neverwhere. Which means closing the gates is possible. Also as Linnae said that place is wretched place and as far as we have introduced it has no real benefits to humanity except people do illegal stuff, so shutting it down has no downside to it. As far as I understood, Templars are just guard dogs for rich wrecthed people. They don't even protect people get killed by those people just because they talked about it.
So if we ever given an option, I hope we will have it, I am gonna choose the demise of Templars. You can't reform something as corrupted as Templars, if you really want to make it right you need to topple it down and rebuild something else in its place.



I've met some people in cults, shady organisations and even after they explained themselves, I never managed to understand them. I have no sympathy towards them to be honest if they are willing participant like Kaija here and not coerced in it.

You don't like the Templars but take a Templars word about there being no benefits from the other worlds? I don't accept Linnae's account's accuracy. We don't really know exactly what goes on there. We have seen the seedy side of town but is that all there is? If the Elves and Humans reconciled, what extraordinary benefits could we see from them? What about the other realms? Is there really no benefit from them?

I want more intelligence before I say to seal off humanity. Its more efficient to reform the Templars then to try and create a new organisation. Plus it leaves the protection of the world vulnerable during the end of the Templars and when the new organisation would be able to take over. Besides, the people in the new organisation are going to be ex-Templars anyway because that is where the experience is.

PS At least we managed to get some non-Kaija discussion going

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

PS At least we managed to get some non-Kaija discussion going

I did talk about Kaija though, said I have no pity of her kind.

You don't like the Templars but take a Templars word about there being no benefits from the other worlds? I don't accept Linnae's account's accuracy. We don't really know exactly what goes on there. We have seen the seedy side of town but is that all there is? If the Elves and Humans reconciled, what extraordinary benefits could we see from them? What about the other realms? Is there really no benefit from them?

There is benefits, problem was who are the beneficiaries. What Linnae said is very fitting what Kaija showed also. Humanity could have benefit from it but they kept it as a secret and more importantly whoever tries to reveal the secret gets killed.

I want more intelligence before I say to seal off humanity. Its more efficient to reform the Templars then to try and create a new organisation. Plus it leaves the protection of the world vulnerable during the end of the Templars and when the new organisation would be able to take over. Besides, the people in the new organisation are going to be ex-Templars anyway because that is where the experience is.

I am open to more intelligence but I don't think there is any information would make Templars better. Let's agree to disagree on reform. With the resistance MC and whoever will try to reform Templars, I don't think that is even possible let alone efficiently reform it. They already not protecting humanity anyway, they are there to protect the profit not humanity. So shut the gates, end the fucking Templars then rebuild a new organisation if it deemed to be necessary and no ex-Templars, after all they are the cause of rot. I am pretty sure they can be easily replaced with a competent force not rotten to core cultists.

 

[Raziel_8]

The reality in Neverwhere's world is the Templars are the gateway between the human world and everywhere else. So they need to exist because some of those other realms would rain untold havoc on the human world without the balance the Templars keep. The Templars need to exist. So our mistreated hero needs to make a decision. Either the Templars need to have a reformation or a new entity put in their place. Which way should the narrative go?

They are not really the gateway tought, we know that there are a lot of other portals around the globe, which are not under their control and are are also often misused for illegal dealings.
If there really was such a huge threat they could easily bypass the templars or wip them out.
So as a gateway or protectors of the world the templars are not really in a position to do their job (at least not adequate), and they are also way to few to actually do that job.

Elves offer was disassembling Templars and closing the gates to Neverwhere. Which means closing the gates is possible. Also as Linnae said that place is wretched place and as far as we have introduced it has no real benefits to humanity except people do illegal stuff, so shutting it down has no downside to it. As far as I understood, Templars are just guard dogs for rich wrecthed people. They don't even protect people get killed by those people just because they talked about it.
So if we ever given an option, I hope we will have it, I am gonna choose the demise of Templars. You can't reform something as corrupted as Templars, if you really want to make it right you need to topple it down and rebuild something else in its place.

Maybe it is possible to close them, but we don't know how difficult it is, if they could actually close them in a reasonable timeframe, well at least these they can access. It also implies that it is possible to open gates, pretty sure otherwise they would have tried closing some gates before to stop the shady dealings.

Well they are just a few hundred, they simply don't have the numbers to play secret police on the entire world, fight criminal syndicates, protect innocents and deal with Neverwhere on top of it (assuming they ever tried to get rid of the criminal elements).

I don't agree with him being moron he is a high ranking Templar, he cannot climb that place without being smart enough to play dirty especially in such a corrupt hierarchy but I can agree with him not being the mastermind behind all of it. He is probably being a puppet in the hands of some third party but he is thinking he is winning the game. Like Sun Tzu said appear weak when you are strong. His unwillingness to help MC is also a giveaway, I think.

To me he seems like a meathead which is completely 'templars first', basically a older, male version of Kaija.
If he is a traitor, then yes, he's at best a puppet. But i can just as well imagine he's just heavy indoctrinated/convinced of the templars (and can easily be used/mislead, if you understand how he works).
All which benefit them is good, even if there is some fallout, the end justifies the means ect.

If there is really a traitor among the leaders the other guy/woman seem both more likely imo.

So if we ever given an option, I hope we will have it, I am gonna choose the demise of Templars. You can't reform something as corrupted as Templars, if you really want to make it right you need to topple it down and rebuild something else in its place.

True, true

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

You can't reform something as corrupted as Templars, if you really want to make it right you need to topple it down and rebuild something else in its place.

Enter the Knights Teutonic!

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Enter the Knights Teutonic!

I was thinking another cult, like these guys

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

I was thinking another cult, like these guys
View attachment 3316057

And who are those guys? Because if you say Dark Templars, I'm gonna lmao at you. Furusiyya might be a better choice? Probably not.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

I did talk about Kaija though, said I have no pity of her kind.


There is benefits, problem was who are the beneficiaries. What Linnae said is very fitting what Kaija showed also. Humanity could have benefit from it but they kept it as a secret and more importantly whoever tries to reveal the secret gets killed.


I am open to more intelligence but I don't think there is any information would make Templars better. Let's agree to disagree on reform. With the resistance MC and whoever will try to reform Templars, I don't think that is even possible let alone efficiently reform it. They already not protecting humanity anyway, they are there to protect the profit not humanity. So shut the gates, end the fucking Templars then rebuild a new organisation if it deemed to be necessary and no ex-Templars, after all they are the cause of rot. I am pretty sure they can be easily replaced with a competent force not rotten to core cultists.

We can agree to disagree . I have no problem with that. I'm happy we are talking about other aspects of the game and not just Kaija. That was my hope anyway, to stir some conversation.

Enter the Knights Teutonic!

Now you're talking!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hospitallers, Knights of Malta, I reckon bring them all back.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

I was thinking another cult, like these guys
View attachment 3316057

I want to be protected not assassinated

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

We can agree to disagree . I have no problem with that. I'm happy we are talking about other aspects of the game and not just Kaija. That was my hope anyway, to stir some conversation.


Now you're talking!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hospitallers, Knights of Malta, I reckon bring them all back.

If we do, we need the Furusiyya added in also. As I said above.