VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[AlexMpog]

That's my problem too. Always get too immersed and take things said and done too personally. When MC thinks or says something I wouldn't it gets frustrating.

yeah, it's especially frustrating when the game forces you to step over yourself and play along

I wish I knew how too honestly. I just never been able to I only get as far as getting invested or making a connection to LI but I wouldn't say im immersed. I typically have a gamer mentality when I play these games where I just see them as video games more or less and I make choices base on what I think it is fun or if I want to play a path / explore the options. However unlike most video games unless they are done well I don't make a connection or feel invested in a character. So there I times I can handle a really sad break up and other times I can't because of this. Funny thing too is I sometimes feel like im a emotionless Witcher in Real Life yet then are times I feel things I normally don't from AVN's or actually feel sad on the edge of wanting to cry haha.

I would say - sometimes it's more of a blessing than a curse hahah (not being able to immerse yourself I mean)
depends on your point of view of course

as for me, I am maximalist, so sometimes I can take things pretty personal, the better story is and the more believable/well written characters are - the more personal it gets

TLDR : id say i'm in the middle of playing like a spectator and using my personal feelings about equally as I feel context is just as important as how I just generally feel towards a character. But yeah because I don't immerse myself I can't get mad when a MC should or is mad, lose trust etc etc.

If you don't want to read a small wall of text on how I play / how I came to the conclusion on how I feel I put it in a spoiler. As you made me just to want to type it out even tho it's completely unnecessary but figured what hell might as well.

Spoiler: How I play and how I came to my conclusion about Kaija

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I get you point, man.

I guess I am just not a very forgiving person in reality, but also I wouldn't say that I am vindictive, I think I am just fair (somewhere in a middle to be moire precise).

On this note - I haven't played neither Witcher 3 (yeah yeah I know) or BG 3, even though both are on me steam account, right now on steam I am stuck with Persona 5, but I'm definitely gonna play BG3 as my next big game

 

[bASKOU]

I can't speak for other devs, of course, but I'm well into 5 digits. And that's not even counting electricity and the time I put in.
Just hardware and assets.
On the income side, I have 298$/month as of now (and way less before of course).
I guess most can do the math on how long it would take me to make back the investment as of now. Without future investments and neglecting annoying stuff like taxes...

That's why a lot of games get abandoned and/or Steam is the only possible way to fund an AVN if you're not top 1% on Patreon AVN devs.

I might be wrong, but from what I see, DAZ AVN takes longer to get the right support and mature slow burn especialy so. In this category of AVN yours is still young, almost 2 years in this forum, with an average of about 1 release every 6 months. it'll take off eventually, and I hope Steam will give you the monetary push you need even with the 30% cut from Steam.

 

[Tremonia]

Always get too immersed and take things said and done too personally. When MC thinks or says something I wouldn't it gets frustrating.

yeah, it's especially frustrating when the game forces you to step over yourself and play along

But that's not a bad thing. After all, it means that you yourself are invested in the story. You “feel” with it and think about it. If you didn't care about the story and the characters were bad, none of this would bother you. Your statements are therefore one of the greatest compliments you can give authors.

As for the “problem” itself: it helps me that with good AVN I always imagine that I'm playing the MC, but I'm not the MC. I haven't lived his life, I don't have his experiences and adventures. Consequently, it's quite logical that a lot of things are simply a given, because the MC is the way he is at the start of a story and that can't be changed.

 

[Joshy92]

Definitely not as old as me. Kaija is not much older than my youngest daughter and oldest granddaughter.


I tend to immerse myself in the game and get a bit too emotionally invested in some VNs and games. I've coped some criticism for that at times, but I make no apology. Sure I might get too immersed, and go a bit over the top at times. The thing is, I get far more enjoyment out of a game if I can immerse myself in it.
You mention Witcher 3, that is one special game.

Dude I completely agree about immersion and like you I won't apologise for it. It's part of why these games can affect me so much.

 

[SamualHand]

Definitely not as old as me. Kaija is not much older than my youngest daughter and oldest granddaughter.

That sounds interesting, maybe I should know you & your family better!?

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

That sounds interesting, maybe I should know you & your family better!?

Maybe not. I started out as one of those dad's ready to pull out his shotgun when my daughter's dated. Now I'm one of those father's who feels sorry for the poor bastards dating my daughters. Strong independent women has new meaning with my girls.

 

[Maviarab]

Maybe not. I started out as one of those dad's ready to pull out his shotgun when my daughter's dated. Now I'm one of those father's who feels sorry for the poor bastards dating my daughters. Strong independent women has new meaning with my girls.

So you're saying they are equally as dangerous as everythign else over there? Even the stuff that can't kill you still wants too and damn well try!

 

[MiltonPowers]

So you're saying they are equally as dangerous as everythign else over there? Even the stuff that can't kill you still wants too and damn well try!

That's why we call it the lucky country. You're lucky if you can make it to lunch without something killing you. (Still, wouldn't live anywhere else though ).

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

So you're saying they are equally as dangerous as everythign else over there? Even the stuff that can't kill you still wants too and damn well try!

Oh yeah, with my girls its more like torture for a longggggg time than lethal. I couldn't marry any of them. Too much drama for me.

That's why we call it the lucky country. You're lucky if you can make it to lunch without something killing you. (Still, wouldn't live anywhere else though ).

Ain't that the truth. My daughter went out with her mother on the weekend for a trip to the shop. They come home and I asked her how her morning out was. Her reply oh good. Anything interesting? No dad. Then posts picture on Facebook of her playing with baby crocodile. Nothing unusual

 

[xapican]

I really need to replay this AVN to pick up on the context of when she says this.
I could see it as her reading the MC's mood and applying accordingly.

If she loved him and he's angry at her, how would saying that she went through the motions be in her favor? It would only push him away completely, right? So, even if she's lying, can we conclude that she never did love him?

Sorry I don't get what you try to say, do you think that she lied to him on all paths ? and what do you mean with motions ? emotions ?

 

[Maviarab]

Sorry I don't get what you try to say, do you think that she lied to him on all paths ? and what do you mean with motions ? emotions ?

I think he mixing up what is said on which path.

 

[Quetzzz]

Sorry I don't get what you try to say, do you think that she lied to him on all paths ? and what do you mean with motions ? emotions ?

I think he mixing up what is said on which path.

Sorry, was on mobile at the time.
What I meant was:
Kaija says something different depending on how the MC acts toward her (depending on the path)
If the MC has a low score, she'll say she was just going through the motions as part of her assignment.

- This score takes choices into account that happen before and after the reveal.
- Kaija has a motivation to say something different depending on how the MC acts toward her.
- She isn't just talking about the last weeks, but about her reasons for starting a romantic relationship with him.
(Again, I really need to replay because these are the contextual things I could be wrong about.)

Kaija's attitude will always reflect the MC's. But, what does that say about her motivations?
If she actually loved the MC, and he's acting distant, then saying she went through the motions could give him closure, but would also destroy any chances she has with him. And, it risks him getting more angry at the Templars.
So, for me, this is the most honest reply. Meaning, she never did love him. Otherwise she would have reasons to put up a fight for him.

 

[Dessolos]

that brief OT talk makes me want to play P4 I bought it recently just to see if I like the series.

 

[xapican]

Quetzzz ; Ok got your point; now:
On the path "Love" meaning she is honest, with the MC (and he shows a understanding attitude towards her) she opens up the door, to talk about the motivation she had, (something that happend in her childhood which the MC doesn't know, half hinted in game, rest assuption from me) she bets all on one card, to regain the MC s trust.
She has an inner conflict between her feelings and the piority , love relationship, or duty and loyality with the "Order" being willing to question their integity.
(I posted some screenshots, in the thread about the convo.

Spoiler: this scene only sees the player, meaning MC is unaware of this.

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she did fight for it, to a certain point, and she took it up to the Grandmaster, MC father, who even asked his wife for advise.
She had free decision if she just keep it as friends or give in to her growing feelings.
on the other path friendship (I call hate path the one with less rel points where I make the MC reject her totally, but it is really only one path)
She puts her duty and loyality over all, and blocks out the convo about her motivation. acting like you described.
she only want to preserve the "friendship" no romantical interest and no feelings towards MC.
but is clear nothing beyond friendship and cooperation.
On that one she admits that because it was easier for her to "fake love" but she really has just "friendly feelings for him"
now the filosophical part: Is this love ? plus all of us taking part of this convo have a differnt view of love, forgiveness, understaning, revenge.
for the imersion, I'm more on Tremonias and Dessolos side kind of player , I play the MC with a certain emotional disassociation. using my empathic skills to dive into the role of MC.

 

[motseer]

...using my empathic skills to dive into the role of MC.

So... what I got out of all that? Damn, xap has empathic skills!! I'm thinking this thread will be needing a "supernatural powers" tag.

In all seriousness, though, I couldn't agree more and couldn't have said it better. Very insightful, xap. Or should that be inciteful?

 

[xapican]

I was terrifyed as I saw the thinking reaction.... .....I love you to bud

 

[Quetzzz]

on the other path friendship (I call hate path the one with less rel points where I make the MC reject her totally, but it is really only one path)
She puts her duty and loyality over all, and blocks out the convo about her motivation. acting like you described.

I'm left with more questions now... So I'll just replay before replying further.

 

[Maviarab]

Jesus....what has happenend in this thread.....

You've all gona damn mad.

Down with Kaija!

 

[xapican]

I'm inocent ...... I wasn't rambling about swords and history ......this time.....

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

....
If she actually loved the MC, and he's acting distant, then saying she went through the motions could give him closure, but would also destroy any chances she has with him. And, it risks him getting more angry at the Templars.
So, for me, this is the most honest reply. Meaning, she never did love him. Otherwise she would have reasons to put up a fight for him.

I was waiting for the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" line that so many women use, but Kaija didn't use it.

Jesus....what has happenend in this thread.....

You've all gona damn mad.

Down with Kaija!

I think we're out numbered, half our team has disappeared on us. Ah well, DOWN WITH KAIJA