VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

4.40 star(s) 56 Votes

Elduriel

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Same tho doesn't mean we won't be able to kill any Templars or Elfs in the future probably rarely but that should be enough for pitchfork wielding users.
I mean sure, there is a possibility, but he wouldn't go out of his way and start murdering people for the sake of it, there better be a goddamn good reason for it.
As a pitchfork-wielding user, I'm still not sure how neutrality works in this ... I mean if you're on the Medb "love" path but the Templar "no path" is that really neutral? I guess he just means we won't actually be taking part in any fighting between the factions? Not sure.

I think I might have also found the root of the disconnect (for me). I like urban fantasy, but not Jim Butcher or Simon Green.
I think it primarily means neither side in general is responsible for the brewing conflict, MC believes that wholeheartedly, and intends to prove it. Meaning exposing possible traitors on each side, and revealing the conspiracy. So he won't take up arms for neither templars nor elves in open conflict. He may have to fight but likely it won't be on his own terms, like it was with Finn in the last chapter.
 
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TrixRabbit

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For me certain things are kinda locked in now regardless of the explanation. I'm not religious and I'm not a nationalist. All my loyalty goes to people (ones I choose) and I'm pretty fanatical about it. I mean, I'll go with a close friend on a suicide mission just so they don't have to do it alone. I'll drive the getaway car, even if I think what you did was stupid. The only way(s) that loyalty can be shaken is by disloyalty, betrayal, deceit or hurting someone else I care about. So the Templars are already way down the list and Finn, who earned my loyalty and then died, now has my loyalty forever. So, even if the Templars 'don't need a redemption arc' they can't really recover from their current position with me. Even if it turned out that they had zero to do with Finn's death (which I doubt) they still couldn't get my trust/loyalty back.
 
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xapican

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I guess he just means we won't actually be taking part in any fighting between the factions?
I think that is what it is meant with it, on the other hand, I ask myself is that what Kaija and Parents did so unforgivable that they deserve dead ? together with the "institution, which Ideals they took?"
 

Dessolos

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ngl im glad we will stay neutral to much Templar hate even tho I also dislike them I just never wanted to kill them all. Not enough proof to do something so extreme.
 

Pixillin'

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I think that is what it is meant with it, on the other hand, I ask myself is that what Kaija and Parents did so unforgivable that they deserve dead ? together with the "institution, which Ideals they took?"
I've been over that a bunch of times, so I won't get too far in - but if it was completely up to me, I'd fight against the Templars because a) I left feeling completely betrayed by Kajia and my family (and burned bridges) and then they (as far as MC knows) killed Finn. I mean I wouldn't be specifically going "time to fight my parents and Kajia" but I would be fight against the Templars and would feel no pangs of guilt about fighting against MC's parents and Kajia. I don't feel like MC owes them anything at all.
 

TrixRabbit

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in that case where did they lose your trust/loyalty that they need to win it back?
Right after the attempted assassination - when I found out about the Templars, MC's parents, Kajia and her "mission". By the time we first met Medb - getting MC's father back wasn't one of my priorities. That bridge was already burnt from my POV.
 

Elduriel

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I've been over that a bunch of times, so I won't get too far in - but if it was completely up to me, I'd fight against the Templars because a) I left feeling completely betrayed by Kajia and my family (and burned bridges) and then they (as far as MC knows) killed Finn. I mean I wouldn't be specifically going "time to fight my parents and Kajia" but I would be fight against the Templars and would feel no pangs of guilt about fighting against MC's parents and Kajia. I don't feel like MC owes them anything at all.
and that's how you would end up losing your sword, dying, and both sides losing in a conflict no one actually knows shit about. By not thinking.
By not telling him that they are Templars and that he lives with a target on his back and that his "childhood friend" became his bodyguard once she completed her reqruitment training
fair enough, I'll give you that. Was more thinking about Finn not being killed by the templars than that. I'm still salty about it too... but not enough to fight them straight up
 

xapican

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"time to fight my parents and Kajia"
You will have to, Your father Grandmaster of the hatred Order, your whatever Kaija is for you, elite Operative of said institution, your mother retired elite operative of said institution and suports your father.
If you burn bridges, and join the counterpart, you will have to face them sooner or later.
besides the conflict of the Alfar and Templars is not the main dish, the danger of a take over by corrupted and dark forces is.
which will erase all resistace, be it the Alfar (they want their resorces) or the Templars.
 

TrixRabbit

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fair enough, I'll give you that. Was more thinking about Finn not being killed by the templars than that. I'm still salty about it too... but not enough to fight them straight up
I’ll still be shocked if no one in the Templars had anything to do with it and if they did, even just one of them, it’s enough for me to despise the whole organization ( when added to everything else. )
 

xapican

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I’ll still be shocked if no one in the Templars had anything to do with it and if they did, even just one of them, it’s enough for me to despise the whole organization ( when added to everything else. )
What if the Alfar are also involved ? will you go down like the Greek Goddess of Revenge on them ?
 
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Pixillin'

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You will have to, Your father Grandmaster of the hatred Order, your whatever Kaija is for you, elite Operative of said institution, your mother retired elite operative of said institution and suports your father.
If you burn bridges, and join the counterpart, you will have to face them sooner or later.
besides the conflict of the Alfar and Templars is not the main dish, the danger of a take over by corrupted and dark forces is.
which will erase all resistace, be it the Alfar (they want their resorces) or the Templars.
That's fine. Their being there wouldn't change my mind at all. They could choose to surrender if they wanted to but either way ...
 
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xapican

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That's fine. Their being there wouldn't change my mind at all. They could choose to surrender if they wanted to but either way ...
No it's ok is your point of view, I respect that I just wanted to gauge if you were aware of the deepness of that decision.
 
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TrixRabbit

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See from a certain POV (mine) MC found out in pretty rapid succession that

a) His childhood was mostly a lie
b) His relationship with his GF (and longtime friend) was mostly a lie
c) His job was at least partially a lie (boss got a call from the board the day after the attempted assassination)
d) that he had, without knowing it, been walking around with a target on his back - endangering himself and everyone he got close to

And that was all down to (in one way or another) the Templars

So ... he leaves, goes to a place where there are no Templars, starts a new relationship (albeit a difficult one at first) and just as that relationship is taking off, she is killed ... by Templars.

Is MC really going to go "No! Not them. Why would they? That seems completely out of character." or is he going to go "Yeah, sounds about right" and then potentially go a bit postal?
 

Dr.TSoni

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No it's ok is your point of view, I respect that I just wanted to gauge if you were aware of the deepness of that decision.
I'm sure that eliminating the line of defense against external attacks on Midgard cannot have major repercussions
tenor (1).gif
 

RNasc4444

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Aug 16, 2022
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I've been over that a bunch of times, so I won't get too far in - but if it was completely up to me, I'd fight against the Templars because a) I left feeling completely betrayed by Kajia and my family (and burned bridges) and then they (as far as MC knows) killed Finn. I mean I wouldn't be specifically going "time to fight my parents and Kajia" but I would be fight against the Templars and would feel no pangs of guilt about fighting against MC's parents and Kajia. I don't feel like MC owes them anything at all.
Exactly how I feel. I hate both Kaija and the parents far more than I could ever hate any enemy. That level of betrayal from people who supposedly love you? It's insane. There is no scenario I can even see that isn't absolute scorched earth with bridges burned. I'm not saying they deserve death but I would unequivocally excise all 3 of them from my life forever. No question about it. No turning back. No matter what.

On the other hand I can't agree on Finnabair. I can't see why anyone could ever like her. She's hateful throughout the entire story. If she didn't end up the way she did I would have killed her myself earlier.
 
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4.40 star(s) 56 Votes