VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Yes, as pointed out by MikesDK in this post #1210, there are two very different Kaija's at the start of the story and which Kaija you get is triggered by your choice when you first enter the kitchen. It has been the theory of a number of people, including me, that this is done on purpose. One Kaija is intended to make it very easy for you to forgive her and move on. This is meant to be the Kaija solo route. The other Kaija makes it easy to continue to resent her "lie of omission" and hence break up. This opens up potential relationships with other LI's without cheating on Kaija. One choice gives you two essential relationship points and more loving and forgivable dialogue in a number of crucial conversations. The other choice results in less relationship points and more "friendly" but self righteous dialogue and even leads the reader to believe Kaija only entered into a relationship with MC because of her orders - at least initially. As I say, it makes resenting and not forgiving her easier.

Ceolag elaborates by explaining the addition of the flashback in chapter 4 here post #1254. I've always maintained that Kaija is a masterfully written character. We are just now beginning to realize Kaija is, essentially, masterfully written - twice. Love her or hate her because that's exactly what we are meant to do.

Oh ok, thanks for the insight and explaining that. I'm new to the game and didn't realise that. I have big issues with secrets in relationships so there was no way I was going to get the love version. My score with her in my play throughs so far is like 2. Hence it just increased my frustration having to deal with her in the ongoing chapters while the other LIs you had to choose. Apart from that it is a fantastic story and caught me very much by surprise how absorbed I got in it. In saying that, based on Ch1 alone, I'm not inclined to go back and play her "good" path. I just find her character annoying and untrustworthy (relationship wise) and the least interesting of all the girls.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

If you are on her "good" path it totally changes her motivations and reactions

 

[xapican]

Yeah, that was probably my only issue with the game, the major choice right from the start when you don't know the characters. But since it happens in the very beginning, there is no problem to replay the minute and continue with the loving Kaija. Otherwise the game is amazing! Can't wait to take my meds Medb!

I think so too but, in fairness, neither choice locks you out of anything. It definitely makes a "flavor" difference, however, depending on which "Kaija" you choose!

Oh ok, thanks for the insight and explaining that. I'm new to the game and didn't realise that. I have big issues with secrets in relationships so there was no way I was going to get the love version. My score with her in my play throughs so far is like 2. Hence it just increased my frustration having to deal with her in the ongoing chapters while the other LIs you had to choose. Apart from that it is a fantastic story and caught me very much by surprise how absorbed I got in it. In saying that, based on Ch1 alone, I'm not inclined to go back and play her "good" path. I just find her character annoying and untrustworthy (relationship wise) and the least interesting of all the girls.

This discussion only proves, that the Game/ VN is a masterpiece, because it plays with the emotions of the person behind the screen!
Thank you Guy's this was a nice exchange of arguments which I did enjoy to the fullest ! Kudos Ceolag you nailed it !
Grumpy Old Aussie If you change your mind in some way, 1 good morning Darling 2 take shower with open door 3 tease her before breakfast 4 kiss her goodbye before heading to work.

 

[yossa999]

Oh ok, thanks for the insight and explaining that. I'm new to the game and didn't realise that. I have big issues with secrets in relationships so there was no way I was going to get the love version. My score with her in my play throughs so far is like 2. Hence it just increased my frustration having to deal with her in the ongoing chapters while the other LIs you had to choose. Apart from that it is a fantastic story and caught me very much by surprise how absorbed I got in it. In saying that, based on Ch1 alone, I'm not inclined to go back and play her "good" path. I just find her character annoying and untrustworthy (relationship wise) and the least interesting of all the girls.

This is definitely one way to deal with her. But I like to think of this situation as a variation on the "Mr. & Mrs. Smith" trope. Going through all stages from shock, anger, resentment to hate-fucking, passion and a whole new level of relationship with Kaija. This is also a good playthrough.

 

[Joshy92]

You guys remember when I said I want to use my tongue to make love to Kaija's ears?

Well now I have another idea
I now also want to lick & kiss her nose a lot
She has a sexy nose

 

[xapican]

I now also want to lick & kiss her nose a lot

Always the pragmatic one! you'll save her a lot of tissues

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

This discussion only proves, that the Game/ VN is a masterpiece, because it plays with the emotions of the person behind the screen!
Thank you Guy's this was a nice exchange of arguments which I did enjoy to the fullest ! Kudos Ceolag you nailed it !
Grumpy Old Aussie If you change your mind in some way, 1 good morning Darling 2 take shower with open door 3 tease her before breakfast 4 kiss her goodbye before heading to work.

It is well on the way to joining the special few I love. I'll think about the Kaija path. I just can't get past she is married to her job and I'm not interested in playing second fiddle. Its a personal hangup thing.

This is definitely one way to deal with her. But I like to think of this situation as a variation on the "Mr. & Mrs. Smith" trope. Going through all stages from shock, anger, resentment to hate-fucking, passion and a whole new level of relationship with Kaija. This is also a good playthrough.

I'll consider it. That could be interesting. I enjoyed that movie, great comedy, but it wasn't much of a marriage.

If you are on her "good" path it totally changes her motivations and reactions

Well they can't get much worse. I'll think about it. I don't mind playing it again.

 

[yossa999]

You guys remember when I said I want to use my tongue to make love to Kaija's ears?

Well now I have another idea
I now also want to lick & kiss her nose a lot
She has a sexy nose

You mean after you stick your tongue out of her ass? Is she up for this?

 

[motseer]

Oh ok, thanks for the insight and explaining that. I'm new to the game and didn't realise that. I have big issues with secrets in relationships so there was no way I was going to get the love version. My score with her in my play throughs so far is like 2. Hence it just increased my frustration having to deal with her in the ongoing chapters while the other LIs you had to choose. Apart from that it is a fantastic story and caught me very much by surprise how absorbed I got in it. In saying that, based on Ch1 alone, I'm not inclined to go back and play her "good" path. I just find her character annoying and untrustworthy (relationship wise) and the least interesting of all the girls.

I thought the same. But, when, out of curiosity after listening to various arguments, I tried the other path; I found that both are equally good stories. Now, this will be one of a VERY few VN's where I play multiple paths with multiple saves. Jus' Sayin'

 

[nitkonikic]

I'll think about the Kaija path. I just can't get past she is married to her job and I'm not interested in playing second fiddle. Its a personal hangup thing.

Do it.
I am of "hate Kaija with passion" opinion, but the love route is incredible wholesome (even if you don't plan on romancing her and just go for high points score), she is completely different person.

She loves MC, cares about him and is even willing to make different decisions because she cares (0.4 decision).
Pretty much all conversations where she is cold and annoyed at MC for not understanding how important her job is are switched around, with her constantly being sad she lied to him and there's genuine regret at what and how it all went.

If I got love Kaija on my 1st playthrough, I'd probably also be in Joshy's camp (minus licking part), but I didn't soooo....to hell with her!

 

[xapican]

-Love and hate are reciprocal passions. -
Gabriel García Márquez.
-El amor y el odio son pasiones recíprocas. –
Gabriel García Márquez.

 

[Maviarab]

All good posts on this/her...she is a great character when all is said and done on both routes and as has been mentioned before, the divisivness and discussion shows how good she is and how well written she is.

I'll always be in camp jump off a bridge love...but I do have a save also for her forgiveness/love path...and it is equally as good.

 

[xapican]

Fun fact MC s Name :
Alexander Callister ;

1. Alexander is primarily a boy’s name of Greek origins, meaning “man’s defender” and “warrior.” The name derives from the Greek name Aléxandros and is possibly...​
2. Callister Name Meaning
   

   Manx: shortened form of Manx Mac Alister ‘son of Alexander’. See

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   .
   Source: Dictionary of American Family Names 2nd edition, 2022​

   Similar surnames:

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   ,

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[Maviarab]

Fun fact MC s Name :
Alexander Callister ;

1. Alexander is primarily a boy’s name of Greek origins, meaning “man’s defender” and “warrior.” The name derives from the Greek name Aléxandros and is possibly...​
2. Callister Name Meaning
   Manx: shortened form of Manx Mac Alister ‘son of Alexander’. See

   You must be registered to see the links

   .
   Source: Dictionary of American Family Names 2nd edition, 2022
   
   Similar surnames:

   You must be registered to see the links

   ,

   You must be registered to see the links

   ,

   You must be registered to see the links

   ,

   You must be registered to see the links

   ,

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Shouldn't that really be a dictionary of European family names....you know...given the vast majority of settlers were European...especially all of the linked names you quoted being Scottish and Gaelic in origin?

 

[xapican]

Shouldn't that really be a dictionary of European family names....you know...given the vast majority of settlers were European...especially all of the linked names you quoted being Scottish and Gaelic in origin?

Yes, but you know our American friends how they are and we love them like they are

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

Fair enough. For me she says a few times she doesn't love him more than a friend. She was ordered to protect him as a friend but she got involved with him as lover because it was "easier". That is piss poor reasoning. She breaks his heart because it made it easier for her. Not good enough. What if in that time he met a woman who would love him for life and would make him No1 in her life not No2? He missed out because Naija wanted to make things easier. Sex wasn't love making, it was just her keeping him happy. Its soul destroying for a guy to find that out. As she said, he would never be her priority, he would always be 2nd to the Templars. When she found a guy she actually loved she would have been cheating on him in a heartbeat because she had no serious feelings for the MC. Bugger that. My MC wants payback Bitch!

As others have said, everything in this game is determined by points. Ceolag has done an amazin job when it comes to that. People tell devs all the time that they want choices to actually matter, but not many have been able to pull it off. Ceolag has. It's why he has become one of my top 3 devs.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

If I got love Kaija on my 1st playthrough, I'd probably also be in Joshy's camp (minus licking part), but I didn't soooo....to hell with her!

if we don't follow the pattern
ass
ears
nose
is not true love

Fun fact MC s Name :
Alexander Callister ;

1. Alexander is primarily a boy’s name of Greek origins, meaning “man’s defender” and “warrior.” The name derives from the Greek name Aléxandros and is possibly...​
2. Callister Name Meaning
   Manx: shortened form of Manx Mac Alister ‘son of Alexander’. See

   You must be registered to see the links

   .
   Source: Dictionary of American Family Names 2nd edition, 2022
   
   Similar surnames:

   You must be registered to see the links

   ,

   You must be registered to see the links

   ,

   You must be registered to see the links

   ,

   You must be registered to see the links

   ,

   You must be registered to see the links

"warrior son of warrior" foreshadowing?

 

[e6mill]

View attachment 3164977

No, I'm not going to pull your finger. Nice try though!

 

[Joshy92]

I know Kaija would look beautiful in a dress
But I also know she would look beautiful just after getting out of bed in the morning

I can just imagine waking up next to her
Seeing her with messy bed hair while wearing a simple pair of pajamas
And she has no make up on

That is when she would look her most beautiful

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Do it.
I am of "hate Kaija with passion" opinion, but the love route is incredible wholesome (even if you don't plan on romancing her and just go for high points score), she is completely different person.

She loves MC, cares about him and is even willing to make different decisions because she cares (0.4 decision).
Pretty much all conversations where she is cold and annoyed at MC for not understanding how important her job is are switched around, with her constantly being sad she lied to him and there's genuine regret at what and how it all went.

If I got love Kaija on my 1st playthrough, I'd probably also be in Joshy's camp (minus licking part), but I didn't soooo....to hell with her!

I've done two playthroughs, one for Fiona's path and one for Elea, what a babe. Are there any other main LIs apart from Kaija? I'm not fussed on doing a playthrough just for her. Maybe I'll come back and do one. Coming in to Christmas, time is in short supply.

As others have said, everything in this game is determined by points. Ceolag has done an amazin job when it comes to that. People tell devs all the time that they want choices to actually matter, but not many have been able to pull it off. Ceolag has. It's why he has become one of my top 3 devs.

I really need to have a look at how he has done the point system. It is an interesting system for sure. I kept scoring low with the elves, I don't know where I went wrong there as I took different options with the two playthroughs I did and ended up -2 and 1.