VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

To be honest, I've never seen another path. I didn't knew there's a way to make her act different at that moment.

But which Kaija is the real one now? The one who breaks her mission to protect her LI or the one who fulfills her duty to protect her LI and the rest of the world?

Kaija didn't break her mission to save the MC with the mercenaries as she was ordered back by her supervisor, but you could say she does with the elves and hellspawn situation.

 

[Maviarab]

Both Kaija are the real Kaija, also there is another path which she is not lying bitch. In there, she is unsure about her feelings but loyal to the Templars without question. All 3 stands there as alternate reality of Kaija.

To sum them up,

in her cheating, lying bitch path. Everything she does, she does that because it was her duty. She openly admits she acted as as MC's lover because it was easier that way. Also admits everything was a lie. She also kinda mentioned how big of whore herself to sell her body, her mind, her soul to the Templars, between the lines. She is basically a religious fanatic, a devotee and her religion is the Templars. I speculate in this path, if fake Jason Statham orders her to kill MC her only struggle would be choosing the weapon. In this soulless bitch path, she sometimes claimed she thinks MC as a friend but snakes cannot trusted, so I don't think that is true. Also there are some strong indication, their friendship was deteriorating when they were growing up, so even their friendship can be faked by her and maybe even now, she is trying to manipulate MC to look like his friend, to use him further. All in all, all she deserve in this path is a blunt stake through her and some oil to burn.

In her unsure path, she still follows the Templars. She executes orders without question but she has some feelings towards MC. She feels more than friend, that much is clear. I should admit, I think this path is her the most human path also most natural. What I see in this path, a woman who robbed her childhood, her life by some cult. If she was given choices she may love, live a good life but instead she raised as an assassin to do their deed. She is not sure what she is doing, what she is feeling and I believe it's because she does not have any reference point to be sure, her only life is given to her by other people. I kinda pity her in this path and I am most sympathetic towards her.

In her love path, it starts as her whoring herself for Templars' interests path. She is friends with MC, she recruited by Templars. We don't know much about how but if I have to speculate, Linnae told MC most recruit is from families and Kaija's family is a mystery so I think her family, grandfather iirc, is a Templar and she became a Templar through that. Maybe she is even groomed to a Templar and friend to MC by Templars. There are some indications towards that but nothing revealed yet. Anyway, after she became a Templar she ordered to protect MC. First they tried to force her to be a lover to MC, that is prevented by MC's father, grandmaster of Templars. In the beginning, like Salem path she was only a friend to MC, then she started to develop some feelings towards MC. When everything reveal at the MC's parent's house she was in love with MC. My problem with this path, she claims to love MC but Templars still is more important to her. She robs MC from everything with MC's parents and she justifies that because she believes her order is bona fide. Most of the discussion is about Kaija's this path because people who defends Kaija either don't know the other path or have some decency to not defend her witch path.

Fantastic post, one of the better ones here in detail regarding her.

Kaija didn't break her mission to save the MC with the mercenaries as she was ordered back by her supervisor, but you could say she does with the elves and hellspawn situation.

Correctamundo.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Kaija didn't break her mission to save the MC with the mercenaries as she was ordered back by her supervisor, but you could say she does with the elves and hellspawn situation.

Both correct tbh. In one she was ordered to do that. In second one, she decided by herself but it still is her duty. Weird part of it, MC should not be intimate with her to reach the second one. So, if I understood correctly in her love path, she was not ready to be move in with MC, she is not even ready to be intimate with him. She does that as her duty and if you choose that, you end up with her bitch who ready to kill on command path. But if MC acts as a friend who is on flirting level, you'll reach her love path which she disobey an order to be with MC. Also in this path, Kaija choose MC over others in small things. So she is still loyal to Templars, to which degree remains to be seen, but she is conflicted because of her love.

 

[John972]

Both Kaija are the real Kaija, also there is another path which she is not lying bitch. In there, she is unsure about her feelings but loyal to the Templars without question. All 3 stands there as alternate reality of Kaija.

To sum them up,

in her cheating, lying bitch path. Everything she does, she does that because it was her duty. She openly admits she acted as as MC's lover because it was easier that way. Also admits everything was a lie. She also kinda mentioned how big of whore herself to sell her body, her mind, her soul to the Templars, between the lines. She is basically a religious fanatic, a devotee and her religion is the Templars. I speculate in this path, if fake Jason Statham orders her to kill MC her only struggle would be choosing the weapon. In this soulless bitch path, she sometimes claimed she thinks MC as a friend but snakes cannot trusted, so I don't think that is true. Also there are some strong indication, their friendship was deteriorating when they were growing up, so even their friendship can be faked by her and maybe even now, she is trying to manipulate MC to look like his friend, to use him further. All in all, all she deserve in this path is a blunt stake through her and some oil to burn.

In her unsure path, she still follows the Templars. She executes orders without question but she has some feelings towards MC. She feels more than friend, that much is clear. I should admit, I think this path is her the most human path also most natural. What I see in this path, a woman who robbed her childhood, her life by some cult. If she was given choices she may love, live a good life but instead she raised as an assassin to do their deed. She is not sure what she is doing, what she is feeling and I believe it's because she does not have any reference point to be sure, her only life is given to her by other people. I kinda pity her in this path and I am most sympathetic towards her.

In her love path, it starts as her whoring herself for Templars' interests path. She is friends with MC, she recruited by Templars. We don't know much about how but if I have to speculate, Linnae told MC most recruit is from families and Kaija's family is a mystery so I think her family, grandfather iirc, is a Templar and she became a Templar through that. Maybe she is even groomed to a Templar and friend to MC by Templars. There are some indications towards that but nothing revealed yet. Anyway, after she became a Templar she ordered to protect MC. First they tried to force her to be a lover to MC, that is prevented by MC's father, grandmaster of Templars. In the beginning, like Salem path she was only a friend to MC, then she started to develop some feelings towards MC. When everything reveal at the MC's parent's house she was in love with MC. My problem with this path, she claims to love MC but Templars still is more important to her. She robs MC from everything with MC's parents and she justifies that because she believes her order is bona fide. Most of the discussion is about Kaija's this path because people who defends Kaija either don't know the other path or have some decency to not defend her witch path.

Thanks for taking the time to post this explanation. I guess there are a few of us that need to do some careful replays. I, for one, missed the "cheating, lying bitch path" completely... so I better understand your position. Cheers!

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Thanks for taking the time to post this explanation. I guess there are a few of us that need to do some careful replays. I, for one, missed the "cheating, lying bitch path" completely... so I better understand your position. Cheers!

Slap her butt, fuck her in the bath, don't text, angry reply when she lies to you then you'll see the witch.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Ceolag when sees another Kaija discussion on the thread.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Slap her butt, fuck her in the bath, don't text, angry reply when she lies to you then you'll see the witch.

I found this path straight up. Silly me thinking my girlfriend wanted my character ugh.

Ceolag when sees another Kaija discussion on the thread.

I don't think he will care. Ceolag is more likely to be happy people are talking about his game and characters. He is probably sitting back with a and popcorn enjoying the show

 

[xapican]

Seriously though, I got the flu the day after Christmas and I was down for 2 weeks lol. Take it easy mate we don't want you ending up in hospital or something.

How the hell you manged that it is summer overthere you shure it wasn't a hangover ??

 

[nitkonikic]

I found this path straight up. Silly me thinking my girlfriend wanted my character ugh.

Same.
First playthrough, had sex in the first scene, then, through sheer "luck" of liking to roleplay, decided to take "get angry" option when she says she'll be away for work ("OK, let me take this option, it will create a bit of drama"), 2 points end of chapter 1 and a very loud "YOU BITCH!" from my side when the reveal came.
And I definitely got some drama, more than I ever expected.

Some people base their opinion on first playthrough, and I'm in that category. It forever ruined my opinion of Kaija. So while I do have a save with high relationship points, I'm still running it with ultimate goal of rejecting her.
Anyone belonging to Templars doesn't deserve to be happy. Mommy and Daddy dear included. Lying fucks..

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Same.
First playthrough, had sex in the first scene, then, through sheer "luck" of liking to roleplay, decided to take "get angry" option when she says she'll be away for work ("OK, let me take this option, it will create a bit of drama"), 2 points end of chapter 1 and a very loud "YOU BITCH!" from my side when the reveal came.
And I definitely got some drama, more than I ever expected.

Some people base their opinion on first playthrough, and I'm in that category. It forever ruined my opinion of Kaija. So while I do have a save with high relationship points, I'm still running it with ultimate goal of rejecting her.
Anyone belonging to Templars doesn't deserve to be happy. Mommy and Daddy dear included. Lying fucks..

I hear ya. I hope the MC gets to tell his parents off. It will be therapeutic for me, I have family and ex-wife issues . I was pretty pissed with Kaija, but I've somewhat softened on her. I hate what she did to the MC on every path and don't trust her in relation to my character. In saying that, I recognise she can be very loyal, just not to the MC. So I see her as misguided rather than hating her character.

How the hell you manged that it is summer overthere you shure it wasn't a hangover ??

Tourists from down south and from overseas come here in droves. A flu bug ripped through town and wrecked a heap of people. My whole family ended laid up from Christmas Day, three in hospital. It wasn't fun but I did get to catch up on some VNs.

 

[Dessolos]

No secret Kaija is my favorite and I still need to play other paths. So how I see things atm with her is this :
I think she has different levels of being able to trust. When it comes to templars and duty yea she will put that before the MC so she isn't trustworthy there.

But when it comes to her as a person, girlfriend, love for the MC. That's where I think she is completely trust worthy and loyal as long as there isn't any templar business she has to put first. Even on her bitch / cheat path whatever you want to call it I think she still probably would be here as well but just not as much as the other 2. Tho that is just a guess as I need to play the other paths. I just never got a hint she wouldn't be trustworthy as a person in non templar matters. As her deception and lies were do to the templars and duty and not to her character in things about everyday life, which is why I have this opinion. Unless I missed a post or something I just over looked in her path or yet to see as I still need to play 2 more paths.

My gut feeling for whatever reason tells me as the MC learns to fight her loyalty will shift and she will slowly become less loyal to duty and templars for some reason and more towards the MC. No idea why but I just get that feeling.

 

[Tremonia]

Anyone belonging to Templars doesn't deserve to be happy. Mommy and Daddy dear included. Lying fucks..

So Deus Vult path is closed for you?

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

No secret Kaija is my favorite and I still need to play other paths. So how I see things atm with her is this :
I think she has different levels of being able to trust. When it comes to templars and duty yea she will put that before the MC so she isn't trustworthy there.

But when it comes to her as a person, girlfriend, love for the MC. That's where I think she is completely trust worthy and loyal as long as there isn't any templar business she has to put first. Even on her bitch / cheat path whatever you want to call it I think she still probably would be here as well but just not as much as the other 2. Tho that is just a guess as I need to play the other paths. I just never got a hint she wouldn't be trustworthy as a person in non templar matters. As her deception and lies were do to the templars and duty and not to her character in things about everyday life, which is why I have this opinion. Unless I missed a post or something I just over looked in her path or yet to see as I still need to play 2 more paths.

My gut feeling for whatever reason tells me as the MC learns to fight her loyalty will shift and she will slowly become less loyal to duty and templars for some reason and more towards the MC. No idea why but I just get that feeling.

I think that is a fair assessment and you maybe right. Kaija's loyalty may lean more and more toward the MC, especially on the love path. Of course, if the MC should eventually become part of the Templars, that pretty much solves the problem of loyalty as well.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

No secret Kaija is my favorite and I still need to play other paths. So how I see things atm with her is this :
I think she has different levels of being able to trust. When it comes to templars and duty yea she will put that before the MC so she isn't trustworthy there.

But when it comes to her as a person, girlfriend, love for the MC. That's where I think she is completely trust worthy and loyal as long as there isn't any templar business she has to put first. Even on her bitch / cheat path whatever you want to call it I think she still probably would be here as well but just not as much as the other 2. Tho that is just a guess as I need to play the other paths. I just never got a hint she wouldn't be trustworthy as a person in non templar matters. As her deception and lies were do to the templars and duty and not to her character in things about everyday life, which is why I have this opinion. Unless I missed a post or something I just over looked in her path or yet to see as I still need to play 2 more paths.

My gut feeling for whatever reason tells me as the MC learns to fight her loyalty will shift and she will slowly become less loyal to duty and templars for some reason and more towards the MC. No idea why but I just get that feeling.

What you mean by that? Like cheating with another guy or something like that? If so, I agree with you it seems not possible at the moment. Either she is married to her job or loves MC, for either cases I don't think she'd do something like that. She would not have enough time anyway. Though small side note here, I think if she got an order to sleep with someone she'd fuck half of a town proudly and other half tiredly.

Although I really don't understand how do you compartmentalise trust, I think trust is one of the rare things you can say it's black&white. If it comes to Templars she is not trustworthy, if something else she can is such a weird of thinking I can't even comprehend to make a comment about it.

Also as I understand from the story, she stands firm in her ground about Templars in all of her paths. MC is the one who compromise. If MC says I do understand what you did why you did and forgive you or try to forgive you, then you have a love path. If not, you don't. So to me it looks like, MC gonna join in her crusade against Elves if they will ever have something to go on.

Tourists from down south and from overseas come here in droves. A flu bug ripped through town and wrecked a heap of people. My whole family ended laid up from Christmas Day, three in hospital. It wasn't fun but I did get to catch up on some VNs.

Not sure that thing is local, I am living half way across to world to you and same shit happened here. Close to Christmas whole town got sick, including me. Took me, 2 weeks to recover and still not fully recovered.

Anyone belonging to Templars doesn't deserve to be happy. Mommy and Daddy dear included. Lying fucks..

 

[nitkonikic]

No secret Kaija is my favorite and I still need to play other paths. So how I see things atm with her is this :
I think she has different levels of being able to trust. When it comes to templars and duty yea she will put that before the MC so she isn't trustworthy there.

But when it comes to her as a person, girlfriend, love for the MC. That's where I think she is completely trust worthy and loyal as long as there isn't any templar business she has to put first. Even on her bitch / cheat path whatever you want to call it I think she still probably would be here as well but just not as much as the other 2. Tho that is just a guess as I need to play the other paths. I just never got a hint she wouldn't be trustworthy as a person in non templar matters. As her deception and lies were do to the templars and duty and not to her character in things about everyday life, which is why I have this opinion. Unless I missed a post or something I just over looked in her path or yet to see as I still need to play 2 more paths.

My gut feeling for whatever reason tells me as the MC learns to fight her loyalty will shift and she will slowly become less loyal to duty and templars for some reason and more towards the MC. No idea why but I just get that feeling.

While normally I would agree with you, she made choice to seduce and get into relationship makes her NOT trustworthy as a person in my opinion.
Talking only about not-love path obviously, so I'll avoid spoilers, but on both paths it is said Templars told her to enter relationship with MC, she was against it, then daddy dear said "Don't have to".
And she's gone and done it anyway because "it made the job easier" (her words).

No trustworthy person seduces someone and lives with them for years, not because ordered, but because it makes job easier.
Again, at this point, it was NOT an order from Templars, as a matter of fact, head of the organization said SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO DO IT, yet she's done it because it will be easier for her.

You could say that's still her following Templar stuff and that's why she did it, but in my opinion, at that point, it's a weak excuse for ruining someone's love life for your own benefit.

 

[xapican]

A flu bug ripped through town and wrecked a heap of people.

Wow, sorry to hear that, good thing you are getting better, though.

 

[Dessolos]

While normally I would agree with you, she made choice to seduce and get into relationship makes her NOT trustworthy as a person in my opinion.
Talking only about not-love path obviously, so I'll avoid spoilers, but on both paths it is said Templars told her to enter relationship with MC, she was against it, then daddy dear said "Don't have to".
And she's gone and done it anyway because "it made the job easier" (her words).

No trustworthy person seduces someone and lives with them for years, not because ordered, but because it makes job easier.
Again, at this point, it was NOT an order from Templars, as a matter of fact, head of the organization said SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO DO IT, yet she's done it because it will be easier for her.

You could say that's still her following Templar stuff and that's why she did it, but in my opinion, at that point, it's a weak excuse for ruining someone's love life for your own benefit.

I agree that she shouldn't have entered a relationship until she was ready to tell the truth or at least part of it as I doubt MC would of believed her easily unless she broke rules and took him to neverwhere or head quarters. Or at the very least be able to put duty and Templars second.

Yeah like I said I still need to play the other paths so my pov was from a love path so I don't recall her saying that and if she does on the love path I just forgot. So on the love path I just personally never saw it as her seducing the MC because it made things easier but because she wanted to take her relationship to the next level. But of course she did also use it to her advantage cause of how duty comes first to her. But my opinion of her being trustworthy and not is cause im able to separate it into duty and love life. If I wasn't id agree 100% she is not trustworthy but also cause I dont see her as seducing us for duty but out of love / for something she wants. Because of that it makes it easier for me to separate the 2. If I didn't id imagine i wouldn't be able to see her trustworthy in one light and not in the other.

 

[Ceolag]

I don't think he will care. Ceolag is more likely to be happy people are talking about his game and characters. He is probably sitting back with a and popcorn enjoying the show

Pretty much on point, although it's not just entertainment.
It's interesting to see how people interpret single lines or even words. It helps me as a writer to become more aware of phrasing and stuff. You can even see those discussions as some kind of feedback on your writing, so I absolutely don't mind even the 1000th discussion of this topic.

 

[Maviarab]

Pretty much on point, although it's not just entertainment.
It's interesting to see how people interpret single lines or even words. It helps me as a writer to become more aware of phrasing and stuff. You can even see those discussions as some kind of feedback on your writing, so I absolutely don't mind even the 1000th discussion of this topic.

Soooo.....about Kaija....

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Soooo.....about Kaija....

Yeah, fuck her. Literally then figuratively then I hope both at the same time. I still am waiting the day we'll show the real backstabbing looks like to her. Always stay close to her then hit her when she never expected, hit her hard, hit her where it will hurt most.