VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

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Wolfram99

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I consider "fuck the templars" route to definitely involve Kaija, so she'd be at hard 0 (or 1, if sex).
Elea is not a soldier.

Sure, you can potentially have Fiona at MCs side, but I'm more talking about overall conflict.
What authority, what power would he wield if he burnt bridges with literally everyone?

We know game will have 1 ending (or at least that's current plan). I am genuinely curious how will Ceolag manage to navigate MC that lit fires all around, to same ending as MC that's being diplomatic genius and co-operates with everyone?
I am sort of tired of "Be a good boy to everyone and everything will turn out just fine" story writing.
Ceolag said that the ending will be the same, just the aftermath will slightly differ.
I would love to see more nuance to the story, given how we shape the MC.

Maybe the best ending all around will lie beneath the Cold persona, such as in Acting Lessons for everyone to win you have to get together with that nurse....
 
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Dessolos

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Kaija is getting so many paths / save for me. Love path ( side with the Templars) , Love path ( fuck the Templars) , Love path ( cheating on her) , Hate and friends paths too. While the others will be just 1 maybe 2 if I decide to do a cheat path for them probably will for Medb at least
 

HornyyPussy

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Kaija is getting so many paths / save for me. Love path ( side with the Templars) , Love path ( fuck the Templars) , Love path ( cheating on her) , Hate and friends paths too. While the others will be just 1 maybe 2 if I decide to do a cheat path for them probably will for Medb at least
I only have one path/save.....
 

Rehwyn

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Kaija is getting so many paths / save for me. Love path ( side with the Templars) , Love path ( fuck the Templars) , Love path ( cheating on her) , Hate and friends paths too. While the others will be just 1 maybe 2 if I decide to do a cheat path for them probably will for Medb at least
I'm actually curious to see if there's a difference between the "don't step back" vs "step back" on paths with Kaija where you have sex with Finn, if Kaija finds out. Your "status" with her is different, so it wouldn't surprise me if her reaction is a bit different.
 
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xapican

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I'm actually curious to see if there's a difference between the "don't step back" vs "step back" on paths with Kaija where you have sex with Finn. Your "status" with her is different, so it wouldn't surprise me if her reaction is a bit different.
"What happens in Neverwhere, stays in Neverwhere"
 
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Ciaran8023

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Well, that was a lot of elves in the update.
Also hot damn I despise his parents, burning bridges on all of my saves, fuck that.

On another note, Finn annoyed me a fair bit and I am not entirely convinced that she's dead. Third party most likely having connections and influencing both elves and humans, Finn being literally nothing but vitriolic rage for humans but then all of the sudden changes her mind within a day while belonging to a race that lives for thousands of years (and also holds grudges for thousands of years) and then conveniently drops dead at a crucial timing. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she was in on it and faked her death.
 

Dessolos

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Well, that was a lot of elves in the update.
Also hot damn I despise his parents, burning bridges on all of my saves, fuck that.

On another note, Finn annoyed me a fair bit and I am not entirely convinced that she's dead. Third party most likely having connections and influencing both elves and humans, Finn being literally nothing but vitriolic rage for humans but then all of the sudden changes her mind within a day while belonging to a race that lives for thousands of years (and also holds grudges for thousands of years) and then conveniently drops dead at a crucial timing. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she was in on it and faked her death.
im pretty sure you can see part of her face when she is being burnt on the boat even if you cant I find it high unlikely she faked her own death considering Medb was sad over it too and she would have to be in on it as well. That and well someone mentioned how she is Medbs daughter which I missed my first time.
 

Ciaran8023

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Interesting point of view, but what motive should she have ? just rebelling against, her Mother, and MAB ? who want to avoid the conflict, because that would also end the Alfar ?
The motive is the same that fueled any conflict in history, mainly a tribalistic viewpoint that's nigh-impossible to get rid of and deeply rooted within hatred and fear. Also to elaborate, I'm not saying that she's a part of that third party, I am saying that the third party would in that case have manipulated her to do what they want.
"If we can start a conflict between the elves and the humans, it will make it easier for us to get rid of the templars, those who killed your kin and tied to take your land, together. Your kin can live freely if we do" or something similar. It's something that happens a lot both in real life and in fictional stories.
Generally, when you're filled with hatred towards something, you aren't exactly prone to rational thought and you tend to be a lot more susceptible to nefarious suggestions.

EDIT: Also, the game drops the whole "DURENDAL SHOULD ONLY BE WIELDED TO MAINTAIN BALANCE" a LOT in this chapter which is why I think hatred might be an underlying driving factor and why I started to question Finn in the first place.

im pretty sure you can see part of her face when she is being burnt on the boat even if you cant I find it high unlikely she faked her own death considering Medb was sad over it too and she would have to be in on it as well. That and well someone mentioned how she is Medbs daughter which I missed my first time.
Yeah we do see a part of her face.. but we're also in a setting with a LOT of magic and mythology, demons that barely anyone seem to believe exists and also dark elves that have yet to show up. It's likely very difficult to fake, but I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility since this third party might have beings with unfamiliar magic entirely.
This is based in the common fantasy trope where you tend to have different ways of magic for different races, might not pan out to be like that in this game, but it also wouldn't surprise me if it did.

And again, if you're fueled by hatred, you aren't exactly prone to rational thought. Regardless of Medb's connection to her, there's no guarantee that she would have told her anything about a plan that might jeopardize Medb more than usual had she known about it, moreover with Medb apparently being against a conflict.

Again, this is all just conjecture, but it feels VERY unlikely for the dev to introduce a character like this only to kill her offscreen without any red strings attached to that.
 
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xapican

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Ciaran8023 ; Well, it is a possibility not gonna lie, not exactly aligning with my conjecture, but a possible scenario, the aspect of Finn being not trustworthy didn't come to my mind
 

Maviarab

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Ciaran8023 ; Well, it is a possibility not gonna lie, not exactly aligning with my conjecture, but a possible scenario, the aspect of Finn being not trustworthy didn't come to my mind
There's a reason he on my list. Because he an idiot.

Ceo said...she dead...done...cooked her goose...the end....no more...finito....she dead dead...deader that dudder....dudder than dud.

FFS people...
images.jpeg
 
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Ciaran8023

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Ciaran8023 ; Well, it is a possibility not gonna lie, not exactly aligning with my conjecture, but a possible scenario, the aspect of Finn being not trustworthy didn't come to my mind
I'm honestly a bit surprised that there weren't more people thinking that she might be untrustworthy.
I mean generally speaking, literally no sides of this conflict can be trusted thus far and the only characters that seem to be able to be trusted are the LI's not involved in it (i.e Elena.. Elea? Whatever her name was, the blonde and whatever the names of the other unrelated LI's are) and the sister, assuming that everything is exactly how it seems just seems a bit odd to me.

EDIT- though I will say, I'd just be happy if she is entirely dead, because there's no way to trust someone who goes from literal generational hatred to "nah you cool" in a single day. No one does that without without being mentally unstable or with an ulterior motive, especially not within a species that holds grudges for thousands of years.
 
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Meiri

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I'm honestly a bit surprised that there weren't more people thinking that she might be untrustworthy.
I mean generally speaking, literally no sides of this conflict can be trusted thus far and the only characters that seem to be able to be trusted are the LI's not involved in it (i.e Elena.. Elea? Whatever her name was, the blonde and whatever the names of the other unrelated LI's are) and the sister, assuming that everything is exactly how it seems just seems a bit odd to me.

EDIT- though I will say, I'd just be happy if she is entirely dead, because there's no way to trust someone who goes from literal generational hatred to "nah you cool" in a single day. No one does that without without being mentally unstable or with an ulterior motive, especially not within a species that holds grudges for thousands of years.
Untrustworthy Finn?? Maybe at the beginning but definitely not by the end. The elves side has been pretty open, sure they mostly don't like humans but at least you can see where that's coming from.

It's mostly the Templar side that is hard to trust here, every one of them seems to have their own agenda and they don't mind lying or hiding information, sure there's probably going to be traitors on both sides but I think templars are far more dangerous.
 
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motseer

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There's a reason on my list. Because he an idiot.

Ceo said...she dead...done...cooked her goose...the end....no more...finito....she dead dead...deader that dudder....dudder than dud.

FFS people...she dead Jim.
You are absolutely correct. I've never heard anything more ludicrous in my life! What would be the point? Half the Elven city attending a fake funeral as a conspiracy to fool one insignificant human of no standing whatsoever? The point of that is to send him back to the Templars to tell them an Elven girl they've never heard of is dead? Oh, she was Medb's daughter and now Medb is really pissed... Wait... Medb was already threatening the Templars and demanding they disband. Again, what's the point?
 

Dessolos

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I'm honestly a bit surprised that there weren't more people thinking that she might be untrustworthy.
I mean generally speaking, literally no sides of this conflict can be trusted thus far and the only characters that seem to be able to be trusted are the LI's not involved in it (i.e Elena.. Elea? Whatever her name was, the blonde and whatever the names of the other unrelated LI's are) and the sister, assuming that everything is exactly how it seems just seems a bit odd to me.
Personally I thought Fin was pretty trustworthy after she started to spend some time with the MC. Personally I find Elea and Fiona just as trustworthy. Only ones I question about how trustworthy they are is Kari ( the Valkyrie) and Kaija depending on her path. I do think Kaija is trustworthy on the Love path but maybe not as much as the other characters. As I get a sense her loyalty towards the Templars vs is going to waver on the Love path once we get more updates. As I suspect they are going to order her or the MC to do somethings they disagree with entirely.
 
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Ciaran8023

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Untrustworthy Finn?? Maybe at the beginning but definitely not by the end. The elves side has been pretty open, sure they mostly don't like humans but at least you can see where that's coming from.
Well of course, but that doesn't mean that they're in any way honest. In fact, having an extreme hatred towards a group will just make them more inclined to withhold information or outright lie.


Meiri said:
It's mostly the Templar side that is hard to trust here, every one of them seems to have their on agenda and they don't mind lying or hiding information, sure there's probably going to be traitors on both sides but I think templars are far more dangerous.
I'd absolutely say that both sides are equally bad. There is nothing to point towards the elves being in any way genuine, and I am pretty surprised that no one has any alarm bells ringing about the fact that any elf that he seems to come into contact with (including the literal king) seem to have completely dismissed generations of trauma and hatred just because one ballsy boy shows up at the doorstep and refuses to kill someone (which in fact should be the default outcome regardless because murdering someone is a terrible diplomatic move and the elves should know this).

It just doesn't make sense, hatred doesn't change in a day, or a week, or even a month when it's this deeply rooted and especially given what we know of elves, their society and how long they live.


I've never heard anything more ludicrous in my life! What would be the point? Half the Elven city attending a fake funeral as a conspiracy to fool one insignificant human of no standing whatsoever? The point of that is to send him back to the Templars to tell them an Elven girl they've never heard of is dead? Oh, she was Medb's daughter and now Medb is really pissed... Wait... Medb was already threatening the Templars and demanding they disband. Again, what's the point?
I'm going to clarify my point since you seem to be misunderstanding it, I am not talking about literally every elf on the globe having a hivemind and deep understanding of a large scale conspiracy plot to trigger a conflict.
What I specifically outlined and what the MC is getting at is that there's a third party, not elf nor human, that have connections within each faction that are manipulating them. My thesis was that Finn is either that connection or a pawn of whatever connection there is within the elves.

This also means that none of the other elves (besides potential complicits to Finn or whoever pulled the strings behind Finn) knowing anything about a faked death.

Personally I thought Fin was pretty trustworthy after she started to spend some time with the MC. Personally I find Elea and Fiona just as trustworthy. Only ones I question about how trustworthy they are is Kari ( the Valkyrie) and Kaija depending on her path. I do think Kaija is trustworthy on the Love path but maybe not as much as the other characters. As I get a sense her loyalty towards the Templars vs is going to waver on the Love path once we get more updates. As I suspect they are going to order her or the MC to do somethings they disagree with entirely.
Elea seems to be trustworthy since she isn't involved. Fiona isn't trustworthy but not for the reason of conflict, but moreso that she has a shady past that might fuck things up hard for the MC, a past that she isn't elaborating on so the MC can't take any defensive measures.

Kari doesn't seem to be trustworthy either, right now MC is a convenient pawn with some sway behind him, especially since MC tends to not trust either templars or elves, meaning that she would likely have an easier time persuading him if she feels the need to.. which she might have already done in regards to going to the elves, which makes her even shadier.

Not gonna get into Kaija, probably my most hated character in any digital or physical media.
 
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