VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[SamualHand]

Yeah, right, I omitted that because the guys already discussed it before me. But even if you're on good terms with Medb, Finn should consider you a friend. While I have my doubts, if you genuinely hate Kaija for her "lies", how you can be on a good terms with Medb, she doesn't seem to be known for being particularly honest or friendly with MC at the beginning.

I told you already, it has nothing to do with Medb the crazy bitch, it has something to with Kaija, they all want to fuck her and doing their best to earn a visit... Once you accepted that, you'll see every behavior makes sense then....

 

[AlexMpog]

While I have my doubts, if you genuinely hate Kaija for her "lies", how you can be on a good terms with Medb, she doesn't seem to be known for being particularly honest or friendly with MC at the beginning.

Personally I don't remember Medb ever lying to us. There were no evidence of it. That is unless I missed smth.
She was always pretty straight forward in her hatred towards Templars in general and MC who is also a Templar.

I think your hatred towards Kaija haters started clouding your own judgment

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

...if you genuinely hate Kaija for her "lies", how you can be on a good terms with Medb, she doesn't seem to be known for being particularly honest or friendly with MC at the beginning.

The difference for me is, MC wasn't in a relationship with Medb. MC did have a relationship with Kaija. For me that is a huge difference. Medb can keep secrets, she has no reason to be honest with the MC unless she is trying to gain his trust. Kaija on the other hand was living with the MC in a marriage like relationship, she should have been honest with him about things that effect them or their relationship.

 

[Knightcvel]

I think you misunderstood me. My statement was not that keeping that secret from their children was beneficial, but that their decision to do so ultimately was from benevolent (if misguided) intent. And that when it comes to forgiveness and reconciliation, it is much easier for me to consider that when the intent that preceded the wrong is benevolent rather than malevolent.

Regardless of the result, MC's parents' intent was to try to protect and give their children a better life. This is vastly different from an ethical standpoint than if their intent was to harm them, even if the direct result was the same. There's a reason why determining intent is often so important in the court of law, and for me it applies as well to forgiveness and reconciliation.

I believe I understand your point of view. The closest real-life comparison to this situation is when a child is adopted and only finds out after growing up. The feelings are the same as the MC's in the "Burn Bridges" route. Adopting a child is a noble act, even more so, I believe, than simply giving birth to one, and the parents who hid the truth from their adopted children did not do so out of malice—quite the opposite. However, the effects are equally devastating because we are human and not always rational; we have an entire emotional framework.

I’ve seen cases where children became enraged, left, and never reconnected. A young woman near where I live attempted suicide. Others cut ties with their entire family. Reading some posts on Reddit and Quora, I’ve seen parents asking for advice on how to tell the truth, and they behave just like the MC’s parents. They delay, promising to tell as soon as the holidays are over, or once their son or daughter finishes their college exams, or when they feel more stable. They try to find excuses to delay right there in the online discussions, just like the MC’s parents who wanted to wait until he was 18, then until Jess turned 18, then until she got into college and he settled into his new job. And everyone who has gone through this says: it’s much worse. When the truth comes out, if the children are now adults, it will be devastating.

That’s what happens in the route where the MC cuts ties, and it’s what we see happening in real life all the time. The other scenarios don’t capture this with the same precision. I’m interested in the topic because I was also adopted, but my mother told me when I was 7 years old and always reinforced how important I was. If she had kept it a secret and I had only found out as an adult, I would have hated my uncles and aunts, my cousins, brothers, and sisters who conspired to keep me in the dark. That would have destroyed my family life. Thankfully, my mother knew how to handle it, and I will be eternally grateful to her and my father, who literally saved my life by welcoming me and never deceiving me.


That’s what happened with the MC. Out of excessive caution, his parents caused significant harm, and in real life, it doesn’t get resolved as easily as in the game. Despite the noblest intentions, emotions come into play, and reason doesn’t survive.

 

[Maviarab]

I was seeing some art on gallery. Fiona is running and in some of them she seems like a female green arrow. Any cues about her hidden nature? What are those green folk beings from Ireland? Leprechauns?

Again...look through the Lore and Legends thread....

I just finished chapter 5. Is it possible that Finnabair is just missing in action?

No. She's dead.

 

[Knightcvel]

I told you already, it has nothing to do with Medb the crazy bitch, it has something to with Kaija, they all want to fuck her and doing their best to earn a visit... Once you accepted that, you'll see every behavior makes sense then....

Both Medb and Fiona are hiding things but they were not in a relationship with MC. The first is tecnically a polite enemy at first and the second is sharing slowly as most people who just met each other would do. That's entirely different of a life of lies and deceit against one who was almost her husband.

 

[Knightcvel]

Refuse to sit on the bench with Medb or decline her invitation to Elven Culture lessons and see what happens.
EDIT: I'm playing Steam version if anything.

I did everything, even resisted the sucubus but I was not able to have sex or attend the funeral. Some choices are very hard to go. Others I have no clue, for instance, going to the Templar Headquarters with Kaija in a car, instead of a motorcycle.

 

[yossa999]

Personally I don't remember Medb ever lying to us. There were no evidence of it. That is unless I missed smth.
She was always pretty straight forward in her hatred towards Templars in general and MC who is also a Templar.

I think your hatred towards Kaija haters started clouding your own judgment

Nah, I like them, they entertain me.

But didn't Medb trick MC about the life debt? And she didn't try to deceive him later in the negotiations, taking him at his word, knowing full well that he was a newbie in their business?

Maybe she also lied later that female polygamy was the norm for Elves?
Oh wait... I think that last one is from another game...

 

[Wolfram99]

I did everything, even resisted the sucubus but I was not able to have sex or attend the funeral. Some choices are very hard to go. Others I have no clue, for instance, going to the Templar Headquarters with Kaija in a car, instead of a motorcycle.

Take this document and explore the stories of TNT!
https://f95zone.to/threads/the-neverwhere-tales-v0-5-0-4p-ceolag.126219/post-14475802

 

[Rehwyn]

I believe I understand your point of view. The closest real-life comparison to this situation is when a child is adopted and only finds out after growing up. The feelings are the same as the MC's in the "Burn Bridges" route. Adopting a child is a noble act, even more so, I believe, than simply giving birth to one, and the parents who hid the truth from their adopted children did not do so out of malice—quite the opposite. However, the effects are equally devastating because we are human and not always rational; we have an entire emotional framework.

I’ve seen cases where children became enraged, left, and never reconnected. A young woman near where I live attempted suicide. Others cut ties with their entire family. Reading some posts on Reddit and Quora, I’ve seen parents asking for advice on how to tell the truth, and they behave just like the MC’s parents. They delay, promising to tell as soon as the holidays are over, or once their son or daughter finishes their college exams, or when they feel more stable. They try to find excuses to delay right there in the online discussions, just like the MC’s parents who wanted to wait until he was 18, then until Jess turned 18, then until she got into college and he settled into his new job. And everyone who has gone through this says: it’s much worse. When the truth comes out, if the children are now adults, it will be devastating.

That’s what happens in the route where the MC cuts ties, and it’s what we see happening in real life all the time. The other scenarios don’t capture this with the same precision. I’m interested in the topic because I was also adopted, but my mother told me when I was 7 years old and always reinforced how important I was. If she had kept it a secret and I had only found out as an adult, I would have hated my uncles and aunts, my cousins, brothers, and sisters who conspired to keep me in the dark. That would have destroyed my family life. Thankfully, my mother knew how to handle it, and I will be eternally grateful to her and my father, who literally saved my life by welcoming me and never deceiving me.


That’s what happened with the MC. Out of excessive caution, his parents caused significant harm, and in real life, it doesn’t get resolved as easily as in the game. Despite the noblest intentions, emotions come into play, and reason doesn’t survive.

I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day, I'm the one playing MC in my game, and make choices from my perspective and life experience.

It's interesting you choose the adoption example, because my best friend since elementary school found out they were adopted when they were a young adult. In fact, somehow I learned it before they did (my parents and my friend's parents are very close, so they probably let it slip one day in casual conversation). And the way my friend found out he was adopted was that I tried talking to him about it one day not realizing he didn't know.

He of course was very upset. But he sat down with his parents, talked it out, and was able to eventually reconcile. That was twenty years ago, and they still have a great relationship.

So I get where you're coming from, but I've a good bit of first and second-hand experience where working through the emotions and conflict has allowed people to repair and maintain relationships that have gone on to be some of the most meaningful. On the alternative path, had my friend or I simply burned those bridges, there's little chance they'd be there today as such a positive aspect of our lives.

Obviously this is not going to be the case for every circumstance like this, and I know that for many the emotional pain might make reconciliation impossible. But because their intent was noble, I choose for my MC to make the attempt.

 

[SamualHand]

Take this document and explore the stories of TNT!
https://f95zone.to/threads/the-neverwhere-tales-v0-5-0-4p-ceolag.126219/post-14475802

It's TMNT, moron! ;-)

 

[nospamwanted]

I did everything, even resisted the sucubus but I was not able to have sex or attend the funeral. Some choices are very hard to go. Others I have no clue, for instance, going to the Templar Headquarters with Kaija in a car, instead of a motorcycle.

Some stuff you might overlook to get the most points for Medb:
- Kill (shoot) the mercenary when they try to kidnap you (+1 medb)
- Help Medb, but reply you acted out of instinct
- Resist the succubus twice
- Be keen to not ask for more when your father returns
- If you 'did' Kari -> tell how you now to call them álfar by her name
- Understand Fin / don't kill here / just undress and bathe / let her decide to train you / be serious when training / but ask if all álfar are bitches.
- Do not say 'twice' at the lady of the lake.
- Do not question her methods
- Go to the pond and 'do Fin'
- Sit with Medb and talk to her
- Oh, and when Medb talks about her brother, don't ask if they...

 

[yossa999]

I did everything, even resisted the sucubus but I was not able to have sex or attend the funeral. Some choices are very hard to go. Others I have no clue, for instance, going to the Templar Headquarters with Kaija in a car, instead of a motorcycle.

The choice of transport to the headquarters seems to be quite straightforward, at some point you can tell Kaija that this time let's do without a motorcycle, because you're still afraid of crashing since the last ride.

As for the funerals:

first, you shouldn't kill Fin

Next, you need to let Finn decide for herself whether she agrees to help you while you are visiting them - "her call".

Next, you should let Medb sit next to you on the bench in the elven city and agree to accept her lessons on elven culture and language.

Then you need to pet Finn's cat.

And you should have at least 13 RP's with Medb by the moment of funeral.

 

[Maviarab]

The choice of transport to the headquarters seems to be quite straightforward, at some point you can tell Kaija that this time let's do without a motorcycle, because you're still afraid of crashing since the last ride.

As for the funerals:

first, you shouldn't kill Fin

Next, you need to let Finn decide for herself whether she agrees to help you while you are visiting them - "her call".

Next, you should let Medb sit next to you on the bench in the elven city and agree to accept her lessons on elven culture and language.

Then you need to pet Finn's cat.

And you should have at least 13 RP's with Medb by the moment of funeral.

Give it up...he doesn't want to listen or use the tools available to him.

 

[yossa999]

The main requirement for Invitation is getting the Min Ebra status, the LP's>13 come second.

From what I see you don't even get to the point of min_ebra check if you don't have enough RP's with Medb.

 

[motseer]

I believe I understand your point of view. The closest real-life comparison to this situation is when a child is adopted and only finds out after growing up. The feelings are the same as the MC's in the "Burn Bridges" route. Adopting a child is a noble act, even more so, I believe, than simply giving birth to one, and the parents who hid the truth from their adopted children did not do so out of malice—quite the opposite. However, the effects are equally devastating because we are human and not always rational; we have an entire emotional framework.

I’ve seen cases where children became enraged, left, and never reconnected. A young woman near where I live attempted suicide. Others cut ties with their entire family. Reading some posts on Reddit and Quora, I’ve seen parents asking for advice on how to tell the truth, and they behave just like the MC’s parents. They delay, promising to tell as soon as the holidays are over, or once their son or daughter finishes their college exams, or when they feel more stable. They try to find excuses to delay right there in the online discussions, just like the MC’s parents who wanted to wait until he was 18, then until Jess turned 18, then until she got into college and he settled into his new job. And everyone who has gone through this says: it’s much worse. When the truth comes out, if the children are now adults, it will be devastating.

That’s what happens in the route where the MC cuts ties, and it’s what we see happening in real life all the time. The other scenarios don’t capture this with the same precision. I’m interested in the topic because I was also adopted, but my mother told me when I was 7 years old and always reinforced how important I was. If she had kept it a secret and I had only found out as an adult, I would have hated my uncles and aunts, my cousins, brothers, and sisters who conspired to keep me in the dark. That would have destroyed my family life. Thankfully, my mother knew how to handle it, and I will be eternally grateful to her and my father, who literally saved my life by welcoming me and never deceiving me.


That’s what happened with the MC. Out of excessive caution, his parents caused significant harm, and in real life, it doesn’t get resolved as easily as in the game. Despite the noblest intentions, emotions come into play, and reason doesn’t survive.

An excellent argument for placing a premium on truthfulness. It makes one wonder what fundamental flaw makes it so easy to think that a lie is ever a good idea.

 

[Knightcvel]

I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day, I'm the one playing MC in my game, and make choices from my perspective and life experience.

It's interesting you choose the adoption example, because my best friend since elementary school found out they were adopted when they were a young adult. In fact, somehow I learned it before they did (my parents and my friend's parents are very close, so they probably let it slip one day in casual conversation). And the way my friend found out he was adopted was that I tried talking to him about it one day not realizing he didn't know.

He of course was very upset. But he sat down with his parents, talked it out, and was able to eventually reconcile. That was twenty years ago, and they still have a great relationship.

So I get where you're coming from, but I've a good bit of first and second-hand experience where working through the emotions and conflict has allowed people to repair and maintain relationships that have gone on to be some of the most meaningful. On the alternative path, had my friend or I simply burned those bridges, there's little chance they'd be there today as such a positive aspect of our lives.

Obviously this is not going to be the case for every circumstance like this, and I know that for many the emotional pain might make reconciliation impossible. But because their intent was noble, I choose for my MC to make the attempt.

Thanks for sharing. I am glad that it ended well for your friend. Unfortunately it's not always the case. I used the adoption exemple because it is in real life what is the closest to this situation as parents will try to keep the secret until later in life and most never dare to do the reveal. They are basically the same as MC's parents in the meeting on chapter 5. The same reasoning, the same intentions, the same postponing. And the feelings are about the same for both parts.

 

[Knightcvel]

An excellent argument for placing a premium on truthfulness.. It makes one wonder what fundamental flaw make it so easy to think that a lie is ever a good idea.

I defend the idea that a lie or keeping information is a good idea against potential enemies. They are the ones that when find out your secrets will be mostly pleased and will happilly jump at the opportunity of bringing harm to you. Lying and keeping secrets from beloved ones wil only bring pain, harm and sometimes estrangement.

 

[motseer]

I defend the idea that a lie or keeping information is a good idea against potential enemies. They are the ones that when find out your secrets will be mostly pleased and will happilly jump at the opportunity of bringing harm to you. Lying and keeping secrets from beloved ones wil only bring pain, harm and sometimes estrangement.

No, a stranger can simply be told it's none of their business and to fuck off. If you are talking about an actual conflict then misdirection and deception are tactics not interpersonal interactions. There's a difference. Lying is never necessary and is always detrimental to relationships. It's that simple and yet we still do it... Curious, yeah?

 

[yossa999]

Lying is never necessary and is always detrimental to relationships.

Yeah, I once told my gf she looked fat in that dress... I mean my ex-gf.