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Joshy92
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I Agree with some of the other commenters that say they prefer a good story over just mindless sex scenes because i'm the same. And i think this is one of the best written visual novels on this site
Defenestrator.for.traitor
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Well there are some people who don't like Kaija and there are masochists who enjoy getting hurt physically and emotionally.
Definitely I am on the same page with you.
Some say they are on the same side. So...
bacienvu88
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Thinking more about this. The whole situation is because the mother and father wants MC and Jessica to lead "normal" lives or whatever. And at the same time continue being heavily involved with the Templars. It is rather obvious that this would never work out well. If they really wanted that they would have needed to either cut all contact with MC and Jessica or themselves cut all contact with anything Neverwhere.
It is also pretty funny that mother and father preached that you always have a choice when they denied that choice from their children.
On the plus side: MC never got to be brainwashed by the Templars. Although he is already trusting them too much imo.
bacienvu88
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Sounds like those people listen too much to the templars's vilification of the elves.
The different paths change quite a bit about her, even her backstory, so I'm not sure people are talking about the same character.
Defenestrator.for.traitor
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When you think about it, it gets more and more fucked up. Only reason MC and his sister alive because Elves chose to. They wouldn't even know what hit them. I think there should be a path or at least subpath for MC getting revenge on his parents and Kaija. How could someone would do that to their loved ones is beyond me.
Guilty as charged, sorry.
For me it's her both path. Though "love" path Kaija has redeeming points, she is an evil bitch either cases and for "friend" path she should be some sort of sociopath to behave like that.
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Defenestrator.for.traitor
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I actually didn't understand that part. He learned everything he knows was lies, everyone whom he knows was liars. His gf wasn't there for him, his family wasn't his family as he knows, his worldview wasn't correct so on and so on and he didn't even stormed out of the house, he accepted to meet with Kaija next day, he accepted to help Templars. I really don't get it that part and kinda felt off. That sort of emotional trauma will cause life long scars and he will have trust issues for a long time but in story he trusted everyone even after that shit show.
Btw, Ceolag I know you already planned out general story but do we have Elven path or any sort of revenge on Kaija and MC's family or Templars in general?
Is there any way to not act friendly to Kaija? I began the game being nice to her, but after the truth was out I've tried to make all negative choices to her (yet I still got four points somehow). Even though I've seem to have gotten less interactions with her because of this when looking at previous posts, the mc is still friendly to her, even correcting the elf when saying her name wrong. It feels a bit off for him to defend her and treat her with respect after all of this.
Defenestrator.for.traitor
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For people think Kaija good in "friend" path,
Let's start with the obvious sitting on the benchscene, she sits there like nothing happened. Btw, that bench is their bench, one of the most important and romantic spot for their relationship and she chose to meet there. Either she wanted to hurt MC more or she didn't give a fuck about it. Either case it's evil, no need to even talk about it. How can people say she is sad, I can't understand.
She even doesn't care his well being. If he wasn't a job even his death won't mean anything to her. One cannot be more dismissive about the situation.
zero emotional change on her face after you refuse her tour. Let's forget about anything, their situation their past anything if your friend refuse something like that you ought to get sad. You should show emotion, there is nothing here.
She starts with whatever happens, she is just indifferent to their friendship. She simply doesn't care and also you will have a friend in me part is just insincire. She says that without even apologize, she doesn't even acknowledge the things she did. If he goes like I don't wanna see you, she'll just accept and move on after hurting MC teribbily.
She doesn't let you talk, she says whatever she must say then simply leaves. Without giving single fuck about what you gonna say. Also it's right after "you'll have a friend in me." speech. This adds insincerity to that statement.
She is just joking around with her colleague. When you hurt someone you value and get sad about it, you won't go and joke around immediately, especially around that person. Maybe try to be more understanding but no, she just joke around. Also even that Cianon guy asshole to everyone, she goes and blame MC for Cianon's behaviour. She says "what did you do, he is not that an asshole?" Also also, making fun of MC for the things he didn't know or understand, things are extraordinary and she does that without even teasing way. She acts like MC is the most stupid person ever lived. You won't do that to your friends. No remorse, no sadness whatsoever.
A clear indication that MC was just a job to her. She doesn't say, I wanna stand next you in your hardest day. She says "yeah, they ordered me to do that, I'll do that regardless of your opinion. Shove it in your ass for all I care." Even that sorry part is there for mocking reasons.
MC got attacked by one of the most dangerous creature in that universe and she didn't even ask his well-being. Not even are you okay question, she only cares Templars' position on that topic. "Yeah, you may die I don't give a fuck but you should have told us, it could have strengthened our position."
I didn't put how indifferent when she was explaining what she did to MC. She literally said "I could have done the job without hurting you but hurting you was easier path so I chose it." She said she never loved him. She even implied their friendship wasn't even strong one to begin with. When she saved MC, she cared his health less than enemy cared his health. "Yeah, okay, not dead, good." That was her reaction. She knew MC wasin danger bur didn't even care up until she got her orders. So being Templar was more important to her at the beginning and MC was only tool for her goals. It was same at the end also.
She is one of the most evil character ever created and not just in AVNs. She literally fucked with MC because of her job. A literal fucking evil bitch. I genuinely believe if she got drawn uglier, people here would crucify her. Like I said before "love" path has some redeeming points for her but it all started same for her. In love path, she started to love MC after a time and "friend" path she never loved him. I think we should say, full-evil path and some-evil path for the paths instead of "Friend" and "Love" paths.
Let's start with the obvious sitting on the benchscene, she sits there like nothing happened. Btw, that bench is their bench, one of the most important and romantic spot for their relationship and she chose to meet there. Either she wanted to hurt MC more or she didn't give a fuck about it. Either case it's evil, no need to even talk about it. How can people say she is sad, I can't understand.
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She even doesn't care his well being. If he wasn't a job even his death won't mean anything to her. One cannot be more dismissive about the situation.
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zero emotional change on her face after you refuse her tour. Let's forget about anything, their situation their past anything if your friend refuse something like that you ought to get sad. You should show emotion, there is nothing here.
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She starts with whatever happens, she is just indifferent to their friendship. She simply doesn't care and also you will have a friend in me part is just insincire. She says that without even apologize, she doesn't even acknowledge the things she did. If he goes like I don't wanna see you, she'll just accept and move on after hurting MC teribbily.
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She doesn't let you talk, she says whatever she must say then simply leaves. Without giving single fuck about what you gonna say. Also it's right after "you'll have a friend in me." speech. This adds insincerity to that statement.
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She is just joking around with her colleague. When you hurt someone you value and get sad about it, you won't go and joke around immediately, especially around that person. Maybe try to be more understanding but no, she just joke around. Also even that Cianon guy asshole to everyone, she goes and blame MC for Cianon's behaviour. She says "what did you do, he is not that an asshole?" Also also, making fun of MC for the things he didn't know or understand, things are extraordinary and she does that without even teasing way. She acts like MC is the most stupid person ever lived. You won't do that to your friends. No remorse, no sadness whatsoever.
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A clear indication that MC was just a job to her. She doesn't say, I wanna stand next you in your hardest day. She says "yeah, they ordered me to do that, I'll do that regardless of your opinion. Shove it in your ass for all I care." Even that sorry part is there for mocking reasons.
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MC got attacked by one of the most dangerous creature in that universe and she didn't even ask his well-being. Not even are you okay question, she only cares Templars' position on that topic. "Yeah, you may die I don't give a fuck but you should have told us, it could have strengthened our position."
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I didn't put how indifferent when she was explaining what she did to MC. She literally said "I could have done the job without hurting you but hurting you was easier path so I chose it." She said she never loved him. She even implied their friendship wasn't even strong one to begin with. When she saved MC, she cared his health less than enemy cared his health. "Yeah, okay, not dead, good." That was her reaction. She knew MC wasin danger bur didn't even care up until she got her orders. So being Templar was more important to her at the beginning and MC was only tool for her goals. It was same at the end also.
She is one of the most evil character ever created and not just in AVNs. She literally fucked with MC because of her job. A literal fucking evil bitch. I genuinely believe if she got drawn uglier, people here would crucify her. Like I said before "love" path has some redeeming points for her but it all started same for her. In love path, she started to love MC after a time and "friend" path she never loved him. I think we should say, full-evil path and some-evil path for the paths instead of "Friend" and "Love" paths.
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Honestly, I refuse to continue the game if there won't be any chances of getting revenge on her nor if we won't get the chance to stop acting so friendly towards her. It feels really strange for him to both think and talk with others about how she broke his trust and manipulated him, letting him live in a lie where he had a girlfriend that loved him only for it to be all false, and then whenever he interacts with her he is constantly cordial. Not once is any snarky commentary given, not once does he show his irritation to her face. The last image you posted is the perfect opportunity to say something like "I don't have to tell you anything", yet that does not happen. If you choose the "friend" route she is so incredibly cold towards him, yet the way he treats her is like if they were still good friends. Why is he so nice to her, I genuinely don't understand it. The main character is emotional and impulsive(something I despise with main characters but oh well), he proves this by not managing to shut up during the ambassador's visit. The writing for the game is generally good, but it really does not make much sense neither realistically nor character wise for him to treat her so well. He shows irritation to both his mother and Eric, but he has made no comment to her more than the initial chocked one. I do hope she will stay in love with the MC as long as you get all first stars, as I really don't want to keep doing good things to her just to betray her as she did the MC, I don't think I could stand acting loving to her in the future.
Defenestrator.for.traitor
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Although I agree with you about that, I think and genuinely hope it's simple overlook from dev and it will get heavy rework because in Dev's storytelling even their past differentiate according to your choices but both paths are the same for the castle scenes. So, I think dev created love path and simply used it for both paths but will write different path for at least her evil path. If not the game won't be any different from Kinetic Novels and it definetely not worthy as Ceolag's creative mind and certainly not Dev's way. So I am not too worried about it. Though, I think he is too friendly even for her love path.
I doubt it will get reworked, maybe future chapters will have more choices, but I don't think he would bother remaking this. As to the "friend" route backstory I can not comment, I am already too irritated to do a replay where she is even worse. All I know of it are from comments.
It is too early to tell if there will be meaningful choices as nothing big has really occurred, but I do hope for different paths. I see no reason other than the current situation for the mc to stay loyal to the templars.
- Sep 6, 2020
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Hey guys,
please understand that I won't answer story-related questions in any way. That's not meant to piss you off or something but just to prevent me from spoiling too much. Of course, some questions may only be slight spoilers but I want to stay away from that completely.
I do read all your comments and appreciate them.
Most of these things will be explained later in the story, some even right at the start of Chapter 3. It's one of the downsides of releasing "incomplete" games, I guess
If you want or need any render or animation in original (non-compressed) quality, feel free to contact me. I still have everything I used for the game saved.
please understand that I won't answer story-related questions in any way. That's not meant to piss you off or something but just to prevent me from spoiling too much. Of course, some questions may only be slight spoilers but I want to stay away from that completely.
I do read all your comments and appreciate them.
Most of these things will be explained later in the story, some even right at the start of Chapter 3. It's one of the downsides of releasing "incomplete" games, I guess
Thanks again for your work, Gorse.Updated my TNT fan sig post with an alternative 2nd sig for Kaija & Medb each (with improved char assets *):
300 x 124 px / 0,98 MB
300 x 124 px / 0,91 MB
https://attachments.f95zone.to/2023/03/2494449_TNTsiG2a.gifhttps://attachments.f95zone.to/2023/03/2494450_TNTsiG4a.gif[* I wasn't quite content with the visual quality of the 'assets' I used before for them on the left side of their sigs. For me it's better now ]
Feel free to choose the one you like the most!
If you want or need any render or animation in original (non-compressed) quality, feel free to contact me. I still have everything I used for the game saved.
No story reply is completely understandable, a question worth knowing the answer to however is if characters will keep loving you if you started a romance but then stopped. Will they stop loving you after you stop trying or will they keep love you and be sad when you reject them. Kaija for example will confess her love if you got enough stars, do you need to keep getting points up for this to continue in the story or will they still love you due to your previous actions?Hey guys,
please understand that I won't answer story-related questions in any way. That's not meant to piss you off or something but just to prevent me from spoiling too much. Of course, some questions may only be slight spoilers but I want to stay away from that completely.
I do read all your comments and appreciate them.
Most of these things will be explained later in the story, some even right at the start of Chapter 3. It's one of the downsides of releasing "incomplete" games, I guess
Thanks again for your work, Gorse.
If you want or need any render or animation in original (non-compressed) quality, feel free to contact me. I still have everything I used for the game saved.
Defenestrator.for.traitor
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Hey guys,
please understand that I won't answer story-related questions in any way. That's not meant to piss you off or something but just to prevent me from spoiling too much. Of course, some questions may only be slight spoilers but I want to stay away from that completely.
I do read all your comments and appreciate them.
Most of these things will be explained later in the story, some even right at the start of Chapter 3. It's one of the downsides of releasing "incomplete" games, I guess
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I believe my question wasn't story related but general direction. Though, if you think that is a spoiler then I am excited. I already thought that was a possibilty since ambassodor is a big part of the game but now I am just excited what will story bring.
Can't say I agree with wanting revenge on Kaija.
MC should be a better person than she is, better person than Templars are. His mother, his father, Kaija, all of them lied big fucking time to him. My personal hope is we get to leave them at some point. They are not trustworthy.
However, I also completely understand it can't just happen. Game must have some exposition, world building, it must have some introductions to both sides of the coin. As long as we're not forced to be their pet and do their bidding, I'm fine with MC sticking with Templars at the start of a game.
Revenge though? Eh, not seeing why MC would go for it. First two chapters paint MC as a good person, crushed by what he found out.
Shocked and lost emotions wise, also why I think "I don't know" is best answer to question if he still loves Kaija. You don't stop loving someone in one minute of conversation, especially if he loved her for years. The "Do you still have girlfriend" choice is different though. He absolutely can say "no" at that point, if the trust is completely lost and the farce is over.
Unlike one other VN (certain game that starts in hell), MC of this game strikes me as honest, loyal, good. Wouldn't make sense for him to just go and sacrifice people to be evil or be hell-bent on revenge. And frankly, I hope it stays that way. I love me a good anti-hero story, but girls in this VN don't deserve an a-hole (well, Kaija does), they're too nice for that (at least so far).
MC should be a better person than she is, better person than Templars are. His mother, his father, Kaija, all of them lied big fucking time to him. My personal hope is we get to leave them at some point. They are not trustworthy.
However, I also completely understand it can't just happen. Game must have some exposition, world building, it must have some introductions to both sides of the coin. As long as we're not forced to be their pet and do their bidding, I'm fine with MC sticking with Templars at the start of a game.
Revenge though? Eh, not seeing why MC would go for it. First two chapters paint MC as a good person, crushed by what he found out.
Shocked and lost emotions wise, also why I think "I don't know" is best answer to question if he still loves Kaija. You don't stop loving someone in one minute of conversation, especially if he loved her for years. The "Do you still have girlfriend" choice is different though. He absolutely can say "no" at that point, if the trust is completely lost and the farce is over.
Unlike one other VN (certain game that starts in hell), MC of this game strikes me as honest, loyal, good. Wouldn't make sense for him to just go and sacrifice people to be evil or be hell-bent on revenge. And frankly, I hope it stays that way. I love me a good anti-hero story, but girls in this VN don't deserve an a-hole (well, Kaija does), they're too nice for that (at least so far).
Defenestrator.for.traitor
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MC is, I am not.
To be honest, he was mulling about the relationship even before the shitshow.
Sticking with the templars is a must, there isn't really any other choice at the moment. People are out to get him and they are the only defense that he has. About the mc, visual novels are all about self-insertion. While the protagonist should have a personality, the player should have choices. You say he is honest and loyal, something I agree with, but this is not a normal situation, his entire life has broken down. While he has been honest, loyal and good, the people he trusted the most have been the complete opposite towards him. How he reacts to such a big issue is the point of choices, it's what makes a novel not kinetic. If you want him to just try to ignore and escape them so he can settle down with another LI, that would be in character, if you choose that you want him to be vengeful and angry, that too would be in character for someone who has been so betrayed. You don't have agree with such a choice, but these types of choices are indeed what makes it a visual novel and not a kinetic. The big story choices should be up to the player, especially if it is about something the player personally got affected by, betrayal for instance. It always leaves a bad taste when the mc makes such an important choice himself, it ruins the immersion and self-insertion.
Just to reply to this bit: " Shocked and lost emotions wise, also why I think "I don't know" is best answer to question if he still loves Kaija. You don't stop loving someone in one minute of conversation, especially if he loved her for years. "
Yes you do. Love can be so very powerful, but also very frail. You can love someone for years, but after finding out they have been unfaithful your feelings can completely disappear, and I would say that what she did was much worse than cheating. Not to mention that if you say that you don't love her your character himself comments that the relationship had not been going super well these last days.
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You know, I agree. Mostly.
Or I would, if this was CRPG made by huge team of developers. VNs developed for this site can only have so many routes. And that's not a complaint about dev (who has done amazing fucking job so far), just reality.
Would I love to have a game which asks for dozens of choices each chapter and leads to hundreds of different paths? Well duh.
My point is that from what is seen so far, and from how much freedom game allowed so far, it would be out of character for MC to go for revenge. Characters made by devs are made (at least how I see it) with some personality in mind. Sure, there is character development, changes in character over time due to events and so on, but ultimately one path makes more sense than others.
If you've played Witcher 3, think of it that way. It makes no sense for Geralt to kill innocents, forest creatures that talk to him and such. In some cases you can do it, sure, but overall it's out of character since it's pre-developed character, we're navigating it to end of his story.
That's how I view most VNs, we navigate pre-made character through his/her story, making some decisions in their life.
CRPGs are probably only genre where I expect absolute and full freedom of choice. Those are "make your own character in the world created by devs".
So just to stay on-topic, I stand behind my opinion MC (currently) should not be turned into revenge driven character. That might change with future chapters, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
EDIT: And at the risk of sounding like brown-nosing , I want to see a story dev wants to make. So far the story, available choices and development have been nothing short of brilliant, and I believe it will continue that way. I'm happy following that story and navigating MC where options are given. Fanbase tossing ideas that devs sometimes incorporate into game usually ends up a complete mess. Would hate to see that happen here.