VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

The thing that confuses me the most is that Ceo thinks we’re supposed to be neutral about the templars. I mean, yes all we have is Medb’s word and we haven’t even had a long conversation about it with her but why would we be neutral. Given our recent history with the Templars, why would give the benefit of the doubt to people who have been lying to MC about everything for his entire life? Especially when you add in the whole rage/grief thing. I mean I hated the Templars when I met Finn. I’m definitely not neutral.

First up, I think the Templars are a weak organization who have lost their way. In saying that, Templars respected the parents decision not to tell the MC. The secret is on the parents not the Templars. It was the parents decision.

Kaija did her own thing to the MC by getting close to him, when she didn't have to, so that is on her, not the Templars.

Finn knew she was off to do something the next day and wouldn't tell the MC. The Alfar were up to something. If they attacked the Templars first then that is on them not the Templars.

So I think the Templars are a pretty sad organization, but I not going to blame them for stuff others did. I'm neutral on the Templars as far as the story goes.

 

[Dessolos]

The thing that confuses me the most is that Ceo thinks we’re supposed to be neutral about the templars. I mean, yes all we have is Medb’s word and we haven’t even had a long conversation about it with her but why would we be neutral. Given our recent history with the Templars, why would give the benefit of the doubt to people who have been lying to MC about everything for his entire life? Especially when you add in the whole rage/grief thing. I mean I hated the Templars when I met Finn. I’m definitely not neutral.

Honestly I can see how being neutral works pretty well. I actually never got to the point where I straight up hate the Templars I still don't. If im being completely honest I trust them as much as I trust the elfs. There is just certain individuals I do not trust. It was why I found it easy to forgive and not burn any bridges with the parents. Truth be told if it wasn't for Fin I would have a hard who to side with between Elfs and Templars.

 

[Pixillin']

Sorry don't want to quote lots of parts of both but that is not where I am with the Templars at all. To me the Templars are dishonest at their core. I give them zero credit for 'defending humanity' I actually think that their secrecy puts humanity at greater risk rather than protecting them. I can see why they were secret hundreds of years ago - the Catholics would have ended them, but not any more. And their malicious treatment of MC and Jessica is just another example of their toxicity as an organization. I decided after spending some time with them that the Alfar is just another thing the Templars were lying about. And then they killed Finn - so, to me, it doesn't really matter why. At least the why doesn't alter my feelings about them at all. At this point, I despise them individually and as an organization.

 

[PaxHadrian17]

This was one of the images posted in Ceo's latest dev log:



We know that there is something very special about Fiona, but the MC does not realize the full extent of 'special.'

This feels like a bit of a trusting reveal by Fiona.

I wonder how good the shot will be and if the MC will see this side of Fiona and start connecting certain 'origin' dots...

Cheers!!

 

[Krytax123]

This was one of the images posted in Ceo's latest dev log:

View attachment 4501190

We know that there is something very special about Fiona, but the MC does not realize the full extent of 'special.'

This feels like a bit of a trusting reveal by Fiona.

I wonder how good the shot will be and if the MC will see this side of Fiona and start connecting certain 'origin' dots...

Cheers!!

Great gal, great render and top.

Imo shes the prettiest of the LI's

 

[ename144]

Hey everyone,

This has been a pretty busy week and the weekend is going to be too.
Lots of work and family stuff and less time to work on the game. I'll keep this Dev Log short so I can fit in as much development time as possible today.

The numbers for this week:
85 new static renders for a total of 1775
4 new animations for a total of 47
214 new lines in the script file for a total of 5255

Next week will be a pretty busy one too for the same reasons (fam + work) but I'll do my best to make as much progress as possible.

Have a nice weekend, guys.
Cheers,
Ceo

View attachment 4500847 View attachment 4500848

Let's see, based on these numbers Ceolag is now averaging roughly 71 static renders, 1.9 animations, and 210 lines per week since work on Chapter 6 officially began. Here are the charts:

Spoiler: Charts - Week 25

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We seem to be off to a good start on Fiona's date, and it will be interesting to see how it progresses. Not much more to say for the moment.

 

[Wolfram99]

Remember when Ceo said that Ch.6 development wont take as long as Ch. 5 did?

 

[Maviarab]

First up, I think the Templars are a weak organization who have lost their way. In saying that, Templars respected the parents decision not to tell the MC. The secret is on the parents not the Templars. It was the parents decision.

Kaija did her own thing to the MC by getting close to him, when she didn't have to, so that is on her, not the Templars.

Finn knew she was off to do something the next day and wouldn't tell the MC. The Alfar were up to something. If they attacked the Templars first then that is on them not the Templars.

So I think the Templars are a pretty sad organization, but I not going to blame them for stuff others did. I'm neutral on the Templars as far as the story goes.

 

[ename144]

The thing that confuses me the most is that Ceo thinks we’re supposed to be neutral about the templars. I mean, yes all we have is Medb’s word and we haven’t even had a long conversation about it with her but why would we be neutral. Given our recent history with the Templars, why would give the benefit of the doubt to people who have been lying to MC about everything for his entire life? Especially when you add in the whole rage/grief thing. I mean I hated the Templars when I met Finn. I’m definitely not neutral.

Sorry don't want to quote lots of parts of both but that is not where I am with the Templars at all. To me the Templars are dishonest at their core. I give them zero credit for 'defending humanity' I actually think that their secrecy puts humanity at greater risk rather than protecting them. I can see why they were secret hundreds of years ago - the Catholics would have ended them, but not any more. And their malicious treatment of MC and Jessica is just another example of their toxicity as an organization. I decided after spending some time with them that the Alfar is just another thing the Templars were lying about. And then they killed Finn - so, to me, it doesn't really matter why. At least the why doesn't alter my feelings about them at all. At this point, I despise them individually and as an organization.

With respect, Pixillin', I doubt there there was anything the Templars could have done to prevent you despising them. You've consistently blamed them for things we have no evidence of them being responsible for while ignoring any and all arguments in their favor. If next chapter we learn that Medb was mistaken and the Templars had actually tried unsuccessfully to save Finnabair from an ambush by demons, you'd blame them for distracting her and swear even more vengeance.

I don't know if the problem stems from the name 'Templars' or if you just have an extremely visceral reaction to being kept out of the loop, but whatever it is it's kept you from giving them a fair shake. Neutral doesn't mean allied after all; the Templars are meant to be seen as advancing their own agenda, one that won't line up perfectly with your own. If that agenda is personally antithetical to you, or if you believe anyone not with you is against you, then the Templars are clearly never going to come across as neutral. But you should recognize that other people with slightly different priorities could reach a different conclusion.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Sorry don't want to quote lots of parts of both but that is not where I am with the Templars at all. To me the Templars are dishonest at their core. I give them zero credit for 'defending humanity' I actually think that their secrecy puts humanity at greater risk rather than protecting them. I can see why they were secret hundreds of years ago - the Catholics would have ended them, but not any more. And their malicious treatment of MC and Jessica is just another example of their toxicity as an organization. I decided after spending some time with them that the Alfar is just another thing the Templars were lying about. And then they killed Finn - so, to me, it doesn't really matter why. At least the why doesn't alter my feelings about them at all. At this point, I despise them individually and as an organization.

Here is what you do to solve the problem. You start a new game, play through the game until you get to Ch5, then you have the MC kill Finn straight up, then you solve the problem of the Templars killing Finn. Simple.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Here is what you do to solve the problem. You start a new game, play through the game until you get to Ch5, then you have the MC kill Finn straight up, then you solve the problem of the Templars killing Finn. Simple.

​

 

[Wolfram99]

I think i found an image of this Pixillin....

 

[Pixillin']

With respect, Pixillin', I doubt there there was anything the Templars could have done to prevent you despising them. You've consistently blamed them for things we have no evidence of them being responsible for while ignoring any and all arguments in their favor. If next chapter we learn that Medb was mistaken and the Templars had actually tried unsuccessfully to save Finnabair from an ambush by demons, you'd blame them for distracting her and swear even more vengeance.

I don't know if the problem stems from the name 'Templars' or if you just have an extremely visceral reaction to being kept out of the loop, but whatever it is it's kept you from giving them a fair shake. Neutral doesn't mean allied after all; the Templars are meant to be seen as advancing their own agenda, one that won't line up perfectly with your own. If that agenda is personally antithetical to you, or if you believe anyone not with you is against you, then the Templars are clearly never going to come across as neutral. But you should recognize that other people with slightly different priorities could reach a different conclusion.

Respectfully - you may be right, because a lot of the things I despise the Templars for happened before the game started. I did not come in with a bias against Templars though. I've read books where they were the good guys and books where they were the bad guys. Ceo said that Jim Butcher was one of his inspirations to make the game and I don't know how Butcher treats the Templars (if he goes there at all) - I'm not a fan of Jim Butcher. Someone also said something about the Assassin's Creed games but I only played the first one, back when it originally came out, for about an hour so there is no lingering prejudice from that. My feelings about the Templars in this story are entirely from this story. There are two things I suspect them of but can't prove (that there are still things about MC and Jessica that they aren't being told) and that they killed Finn. Other than that there is a long list of crimes that I do have evidence for. Even without killing Finn I despise them and I'm leaning into taking Medb at her word because she has been nothing but kind, hospitable and forthcoming during my visit and the Templars have zero credibility with me at that stage. It just fits with what I already think of them. If we start the next update and Finn is magically alive, I'd still hate the Templars.

 

[Pixillin']

This was one of the images posted in Ceo's latest dev log:

View attachment 4501190

We know that there is something very special about Fiona, but the MC does not realize the full extent of 'special.'

This feels like a bit of a trusting reveal by Fiona.

I wonder how good the shot will be and if the MC will see this side of Fiona and start connecting certain 'origin' dots...

Cheers!!

They did talk about visiting her cottage before MC left to see the Alfir. Also, based on their conversations, Fionna knows that she has to open up to MC if she wants to be close to him. ( When she said that there were some things she wasn't ready to talk about yet and was that ok? My MC said that given the way his life had been going lately, it really wasn't and then they talked about that a bit.)

 

[nitkonikic]

First up, I think the Templars are a weak organization who have lost their way. In saying that, Templars respected the parents decision not to tell the MC. The secret is on the parents not the Templars. It was the parents decision.

Kaija did her own thing to the MC by getting close to him, when she didn't have to, so that is on her, not the Templars.

Minor correction, initial order came from Templars.
The only vote against it was by Linnae.
Then order was overruled by father.
Then Kaija did what she did.

So it's definitely on Templars just as much as it's on Kaija. Doubt Kaija would go with it if she wasn't given initial order.
As it is, seed was planted in her head, and brainwashed as she is, she probably thought it should be done, even if it's no longer an order.

Can't believe I'm actually defending Kaija...what is wrong with this world...

 

[ename144]

Even without killing Finn I despise them and I'm leaning into taking Medb at her word because she has been nothing but kind, hospitable and forthcoming during my visit and the Templars have zero credibility with me at that stage.

I mean, if you ignore the times Medb was obstinate, callous or dismissive during our visit (to say nothing of how she acts if you don't bend over backwards to protect Finnabair from the consequences of her own actions), then sure, Medb's been a perfect host.

But I get that you have your reasons for hating the Templars. That's fair, it's your call to make. Just bear in mind that other people might not find their sins quite as damning as you do, or may be willing to bend over backwards to give them additional chances, too.

 

[Pixillin']

I mean, if you ignore the times Medb was obstinate, callous or dismissive during our visit (to say nothing of how she acts if you don't bend over backwards to protect Finnabair from the consequences of her own actions), then sure, Medb's been a perfect host.

Things get off to a rocky start for sure - Medb, Finn and the Alfir in general are prejudiced against the Templar and humans. But from my POV I understand why, even while they're being rude to MC. After you start meeting with Medb in the evenings, she is honest, open and willing to talk about pretty much anything you're curious about - including teaching you all about your sword, without trying to take it even though Medb sort of has a legitimate claim to it.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Minor correction, initial order came from Templars.
The only vote against it was by Linnae.
Then order was overruled by father.
Then Kaija did what she did.

So it's definitely on Templars just as much as it's on Kaija. Doubt Kaija would go with it if she wasn't given initial order.
As it is, seed was planted in her head, and brainwashed as she is, she probably thought it should be done, even if it's no longer an order.

Can't believe I'm actually defending Kaija...what is wrong with this world...

That is true, but the official order at the end was that she didn't have to get involved. Kaija made that decision herself

 

[Pixillin']

That is true, but the official order at the end was that she didn't have to get involved. Kaija made that decision herself

See, I kind of went past that problem - we’ve heard a lot of stories from a lot of people I have zero trust in, so I’ve just written off the Templars as a whole. So which Templars did what isn’t a concern - it’s all just Templar stuff.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

See, I kind of went past that problem - we’ve heard a lot of stories from a lot of people I have zero trust in, so I’ve just written off the Templars as a whole. So which Templars did what isn’t a concern - it’s all just Templar stuff.

Not so, that came out in the discussion between the MC and Kaija, it's about their relationship, not the Templars. If Kaija was ordered too, there could have been a restoration of friendship down the road for my MC. Because Kaija made the decision, she is dead to my MC, except Ceo won't let the bitch die