VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[Wolfram99]

I think i found an image of this Pixillin....

 

[Pixillin']

With respect, Pixillin', I doubt there there was anything the Templars could have done to prevent you despising them. You've consistently blamed them for things we have no evidence of them being responsible for while ignoring any and all arguments in their favor. If next chapter we learn that Medb was mistaken and the Templars had actually tried unsuccessfully to save Finnabair from an ambush by demons, you'd blame them for distracting her and swear even more vengeance.

I don't know if the problem stems from the name 'Templars' or if you just have an extremely visceral reaction to being kept out of the loop, but whatever it is it's kept you from giving them a fair shake. Neutral doesn't mean allied after all; the Templars are meant to be seen as advancing their own agenda, one that won't line up perfectly with your own. If that agenda is personally antithetical to you, or if you believe anyone not with you is against you, then the Templars are clearly never going to come across as neutral. But you should recognize that other people with slightly different priorities could reach a different conclusion.

Respectfully - you may be right, because a lot of the things I despise the Templars for happened before the game started. I did not come in with a bias against Templars though. I've read books where they were the good guys and books where they were the bad guys. Ceo said that Jim Butcher was one of his inspirations to make the game and I don't know how Butcher treats the Templars (if he goes there at all) - I'm not a fan of Jim Butcher. Someone also said something about the Assassin's Creed games but I only played the first one, back when it originally came out, for about an hour so there is no lingering prejudice from that. My feelings about the Templars in this story are entirely from this story. There are two things I suspect them of but can't prove (that there are still things about MC and Jessica that they aren't being told) and that they killed Finn. Other than that there is a long list of crimes that I do have evidence for. Even without killing Finn I despise them and I'm leaning into taking Medb at her word because she has been nothing but kind, hospitable and forthcoming during my visit and the Templars have zero credibility with me at that stage. It just fits with what I already think of them. If we start the next update and Finn is magically alive, I'd still hate the Templars.

 

[Pixillin']

This was one of the images posted in Ceo's latest dev log:

View attachment 4501190

We know that there is something very special about Fiona, but the MC does not realize the full extent of 'special.'

This feels like a bit of a trusting reveal by Fiona.

I wonder how good the shot will be and if the MC will see this side of Fiona and start connecting certain 'origin' dots...

Cheers!!

They did talk about visiting her cottage before MC left to see the Alfir. Also, based on their conversations, Fionna knows that she has to open up to MC if she wants to be close to him. ( When she said that there were some things she wasn't ready to talk about yet and was that ok? My MC said that given the way his life had been going lately, it really wasn't and then they talked about that a bit.)

 

[nitkonikic]

First up, I think the Templars are a weak organization who have lost their way. In saying that, Templars respected the parents decision not to tell the MC. The secret is on the parents not the Templars. It was the parents decision.

Kaija did her own thing to the MC by getting close to him, when she didn't have to, so that is on her, not the Templars.

Minor correction, initial order came from Templars.
The only vote against it was by Linnae.
Then order was overruled by father.
Then Kaija did what she did.

So it's definitely on Templars just as much as it's on Kaija. Doubt Kaija would go with it if she wasn't given initial order.
As it is, seed was planted in her head, and brainwashed as she is, she probably thought it should be done, even if it's no longer an order.

Can't believe I'm actually defending Kaija...what is wrong with this world...

 

[ename144]

Even without killing Finn I despise them and I'm leaning into taking Medb at her word because she has been nothing but kind, hospitable and forthcoming during my visit and the Templars have zero credibility with me at that stage.

I mean, if you ignore the times Medb was obstinate, callous or dismissive during our visit (to say nothing of how she acts if you don't bend over backwards to protect Finnabair from the consequences of her own actions), then sure, Medb's been a perfect host.

But I get that you have your reasons for hating the Templars. That's fair, it's your call to make. Just bear in mind that other people might not find their sins quite as damning as you do, or may be willing to bend over backwards to give them additional chances, too.

 

[Pixillin']

I mean, if you ignore the times Medb was obstinate, callous or dismissive during our visit (to say nothing of how she acts if you don't bend over backwards to protect Finnabair from the consequences of her own actions), then sure, Medb's been a perfect host.

Things get off to a rocky start for sure - Medb, Finn and the Alfir in general are prejudiced against the Templar and humans. But from my POV I understand why, even while they're being rude to MC. After you start meeting with Medb in the evenings, she is honest, open and willing to talk about pretty much anything you're curious about - including teaching you all about your sword, without trying to take it even though Medb sort of has a legitimate claim to it.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Minor correction, initial order came from Templars.
The only vote against it was by Linnae.
Then order was overruled by father.
Then Kaija did what she did.

So it's definitely on Templars just as much as it's on Kaija. Doubt Kaija would go with it if she wasn't given initial order.
As it is, seed was planted in her head, and brainwashed as she is, she probably thought it should be done, even if it's no longer an order.

Can't believe I'm actually defending Kaija...what is wrong with this world...

That is true, but the official order at the end was that she didn't have to get involved. Kaija made that decision herself

 

[Pixillin']

That is true, but the official order at the end was that she didn't have to get involved. Kaija made that decision herself

See, I kind of went past that problem - we’ve heard a lot of stories from a lot of people I have zero trust in, so I’ve just written off the Templars as a whole. So which Templars did what isn’t a concern - it’s all just Templar stuff.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

See, I kind of went past that problem - we’ve heard a lot of stories from a lot of people I have zero trust in, so I’ve just written off the Templars as a whole. So which Templars did what isn’t a concern - it’s all just Templar stuff.

Not so, that came out in the discussion between the MC and Kaija, it's about their relationship, not the Templars. If Kaija was ordered too, there could have been a restoration of friendship down the road for my MC. Because Kaija made the decision, she is dead to my MC, except Ceo won't let the bitch die

 

[Pixillin']

Not so, that came out in the discussion between the MC and Kaija, it's about their relationship, not the Templars. If Kaija was ordered too, there could have been a restoration of friendship down the road for my MC. Because Kaija made the decision, she is dead to my MC, except Ceo won't let the bitch die

What I mean is that I just stopped caring whose bad idea all of it was. I mean, at the core of it is that - not telling MC about all of this actually put him in greater danger because as the son of the grand high poobah or whatever his title is, he would have had a target on his back from birth, whether he was aware of the Templars or not. Anyone who actually cared about him at all - on any level - would have given him a heads up. The only other possibility is that they were all just very, very, very stupid (especially about matters of security) and heavily armed which isn’t a good combo. That possibility is backed up by them giving him a “bodyguard” who was never around. So, I wrote them all off - the organization and everyone in it. Fortunately, Finn helped teach MC to defend himself and they taught him about his sword and it’s powers which will provide more protection than the Templars ever did.

 

[Knightcvel]

The thing that confuses me the most is that Ceo thinks we’re supposed to be neutral about the templars. I mean, yes all we have is Medb’s word and we haven’t even had a long conversation about it with her but why would we be neutral. Given our recent history with the Templars, why would give the benefit of the doubt to people who have been lying to MC about everything for his entire life? Especially when you add in the whole rage/grief thing. I mean I hated the Templars when I met Finn. I’m definitely not neutral.

That's what I think. The game is played from the perspective of the main character and his life was deeply affected by the Templars. I understand that there are those who don't care and would like MC following a path where he becomes one himself, but there are those who despise them and those like me who want to inflict a fatal hit on them. It wouldn't be difficult to implement in a epilogue like the one as in Deus Ex where the MC may choose among three endings with a sequence showing the aftermath of his decision.

 

[Pixillin']

That's what I think. The game is played from the perspective of the main character and his life was deeply affected by the Templars. I understand that there are those who don't care and would like MC following a path where he becomes one himself, but there are those who despise them and those like me who want to inflict a fatal hit on them. It wouldn't be difficult to implement in a epilogue like the one as in Deus Ex where the MC may choose among three endings with a sequence showing the aftermath of his decision.

Yes, there are people that like the Templars and people who hate the Templars but I don’t think there are very many people who are neutral about them.

 

[Dessolos]

Yes, there are people that like the Templars and people who hate the Templars but I don’t think there are very many people who are neutral about them.

im semi Neutral. I 'm more pro Elfs because of Fin but I don't outright hate either of them. I think they are equally both bad and good right now

 

[Knightcvel]

I have reasons to believe that the Templars did not kill Finn. She was a disposable character from the start. If MC kill her, we wouldn't be accusing templars. As far as I know, there is no canon route at this moment. She was introduced as a catalyst for a direct confrontation among Templars and Elves and she could have been killed by MC or a third part although the elves think otherwise. I think she was killed by those demons or by rogue Templars allied to them as even MC's father suspect about an internal conspiracy going on.

 

[Pixillin']

I have reasons to believe that the Templars did not kill Finn. She was a disposable character from the start. If MC kill her, we wouldn't be accusing templars. As far as I know, there is no canon route at this moment. She was introduced as a catalyst for a direct confrontation among Templars and Elves and she could have been killed by MC or a third part although the elves think otherwise. I think she was killed by those demons or by rogue Templars allied to them as even MC's father suspect about an internal conspiracy going on.

Maybe. I’ll be going after anyone involved in her killing regardless of why or what happened. If it was a rogue Templar being mind controlled by a demon - I’ll be after revenge on the demon and the Templar. But yeah, we don’t have any specifics yet - just that Finn is dead and Medb says it was the Templars.

 

[Knightcvel]

What I mean is that I just stopped caring whose bad idea all of it was. I mean, at the core of it is that - not telling MC about all of this actually put him in greater danger because as the son of the grand high poobah or whatever his title is, he would have had a target on his back from birth, whether he was aware of the Templars or not.

I agree, specially after the speech of the Ice Queen after gazing Jess. She said something like how much talent wasted. She was probably alluding about her hidden abilities that would serve the Templar's cause quite well but stood undeveloped thanks to their secrecy, much like MC who could be a game changer for them but now depending of the route will at least not support them (although I wish he purge them).

 

[Pixillin']

I agree, specially after the speech of the Ice Queen after gazing Jess. She said something like how much talent wasted. She was probably alluding about her hidden abilities that would serve the Templar's cause quite well but stood undeveloped thanks to their secrecy, much like MC who could be a game changer for them but now depending of the route will at least not support them (although I wish he purge them).

Yeah, based on the magical powers, I’m not sure that MC’s parents are actually even their parents - I think they’re still lying about stuff.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Yeah, based on the magical powers, I’m not sure that MC’s parents are actually even their parents - I think they’re still lying about stuff.

Yeah, I agree. I think they are hiding plenty. I'd like to know more about their role in the MC and Kaija's relationship

 

[Pixillin']

Yeah, I agree. I think they are hiding plenty. I'd like to know more about their role in the MC and Kaija's relationship

I’ve said this before but I wonder if Kajia wasn’t so much protecting MC as watching for signs of powers emerging or similar. She certainly wasn’t doing much guarding- he couldn’t even get an answer to a text

 

[Joshy92]

People moan about Kaija keeping secrets, but isn't the MC keeping secrets from the other girls too?