Ren'Py The Null Hypothesis [v0.5b] [Ron Chon]

[drifter139]

Rogue having the best ass on the team is Ultra-Canon and one thing none of us on the team will be swayed on. Emma, if she makes it into the game, will probably have one of the bigger bustlines, but other than that kind of thing, everyone's going to be more on the 'realistic' end of the scale (other than everyone having the usual flawless comic-book bodies you'd expect, obviously). More power to you if the kind of literally impossible physique you see in a lot of 3D games, for example, is something you like, but it's not quite what we're going for here.

personally I prefer the comic book versions of the girls. they are just the right proportions and it feels like increasing any parts of them is just wrong

 

[SolSpell]

What's the consensus on combat right now? Is anything other than turn-based feasible in Ren'Py?
Personally I like turn-based and hope a combat system makes it in.

Anyways, you've really put your best foot forward with this. Hours of content on your first release, quality well above almost anything else on the site. BRAVO!

 

[red1988]

combat system whar not will cool have this

 

[drifter139]

combat system whar not will cool have this

it's been talked about in the thread

 

[UnsavouryPursuits]

oh ok, I thought you literally meant the exact issue in which they appeared, if you guys are going by arcs/events than it's mostly useless trying to predict exactly which ones wil appear. Plus there are a lot of girls nobody except massive comic fans know, I doubt this game will include someone like Lila Cheney unless you guys are planning to do every x-woman lol.Can't wait to see jean as dark phoenix.

I, for one, would love a Lila Cheney cameo. Her appearances in New Mutants and her dynamic with Sam were always fun.

 

[Mutation8888]

Great game! Give them all bigger tits and butts as well

Or maybe a nice variety for all tastes as is already present. Personally, I like variety and they all deserve a bit of attention. It looks like they are trying to keep the characters within their comic related figures, which are already a bit exaggerated.. in a fantasy female manner.

 

[Mutation8888]

Rogue having the best ass on the team is Ultra-Canon and one thing none of us on the team will be swayed on.

Exactly... and she is definitely not lacking in the upper floor either.

 

[badlulu]

I appreciate the game overall - I think this is a really solid approach to leveraging the Rogue-Like scenario into a quality developed game. That said, one of the things I really enjoyed about Rogue-Like was the ability to take an alternative approach to the girls. The addiction mechanic meant that you had the option of keeping love low, being a general POS to people, and waiting for a girl to come to you for another 'fix'. It created a different dynamic that you could use in the game if you wanted, and I feel like the single "love" path here in TNH feels less interesting because of that lack.

As I mentioned, I'm still enjoying this on its own merits - but don't underestimate the value of Oni's low love mechanics and approach.

 

[Evil13]

I appreciate the game overall - I think this is a really solid approach to leveraging the Rogue-Like scenario into a quality developed game. That said, one of the things I really enjoyed about Rogue-Like was the ability to take an alternative approach to the girls. The addiction mechanic meant that you had the option of keeping love low, being a general POS to people, and waiting for a girl to come to you for another 'fix'. It created a different dynamic that you could use in the game if you wanted, and I feel like the single "love" path here in TNH feels less interesting because of that lack.

As I mentioned, I'm still enjoying this on its own merits - but don't underestimate the value of Oni's low love mechanics and approach.

There is also a hidden mechanic where you can alter the girls personalities from their original comic to a certain direction. Jean, for example becomes a light dommy with a sibling fixation. Rogue can become a kind of meek character. Laura becomes even more direct without any boundaries.

 

[badlulu]

There is also a hidden mechanic where you can alter the girls personalities from their original comic to a certain direction. Jean, for example becomes a light dommy with a sibling fixation. Rogue can become a kind of meek character. Laura becomes even more direct without any boundaries.

I've seen it, and again - I appreciate the content that this game has. It just leans really heavily into the 'romance' angle overall and I think is somewhat lessened by it.

 

[RedPandaExpress]

I've seen it, and again - I appreciate the content that this game has. It just leans really heavily into the 'romance' angle overall and I think is somewhat lessened by it.

That is an interesting take on it.

So because this game doesn't have the option to essentially use forced addiction to create situations that could most generously be defined as 'dubious consent', it is lessened for it.

Well, everyone's entitled to have an opinion. Fortunately, it appears the Devs have one too in regards to what kind of content they wish to introduce to their game.

 

[badlulu]

That is an interesting take on it.

So because this game doesn't have the option to essentially use forced addiction to create situations that could most generously be defined as 'dubious consent', it is lessened for it.

Well, everyone's entitled to have an opinion. Fortunately, it appears the Devs have one too in regards to what kind of content they wish to introduce to their game.

I mean, the game that this is copying a great deal from has those mechanics - so it's hardly a stretch to wonder why the choice was made. To then neuter the spectrum of possible interactions that the player can have with the other characters to a narrow window of 'friendly' to 'romantic' decreases player agency overall and makes the choices feel far less interesting or meaningful. The content that is here is pretty high quality overall, but it's very focused on a more VN structure that limits the possible interactions quite a bit.

 

[RedPandaExpress]

I mean, the game that this is copying a great deal from has those mechanics - so it's hardly a stretch to wonder why the choice was made. To then neuter the spectrum of possible interactions that the player can have with the other characters to a narrow window of 'friendly' to 'romantic' decreases player agency overall and makes the choices feel far less interesting or meaningful. The content that is here is pretty high quality overall, but it's very focused on a more VN structure that limits the possible interactions quite a bit.

Yes, the other game inspired this one however TNH clearly has expanded well beyond that, what with it actually having a plot and story that involves more than just fucking the girls. Nothing against the other game, I play that one too. However aside from a basic starting point for a premise, the two games start to diverge rather sharply in terms of characterization, story, and focus.

"So it's hardly a stretch to wonder why the choice was made"

Nope, doesn't take much of a stretch at all. The Devs felt that it was critical that the game feature mutual consent. They actively removed that element from the game because it does not fit with the story and game that they want to create. Taking a quote from over on the discord

"There will be no coercing anyone into doing things they’re not comfortable with."

Two big items on the list of No for sexual content to be included in the game
Rape/Sexual Assault/Sexual Harassment
Mind-Breaking and Enslavement.

The storyline doesn't have the opportunity to branch much so there could be an argument that there is some lack of agency there, but that wasn't the part your criticism was directed at. The game not featuring a particular person's favorite kinks does not 'diminish the game', but it may mean that they would do better to seek out a different game.

 

[badlulu]

Yes, the other game inspired this one however TNH clearly has expanded well beyond that, what with it actually having a plot and story that involves more than just fucking the girls. Nothing against the other game, I play that one too. However aside from a basic starting point for a premise, the two games start to diverge rather sharply in terms of characterization, story, and focus.

"So it's hardly a stretch to wonder why the choice was made"

Nope, doesn't take much of a stretch at all. The Devs felt that it was critical that the game feature mutual consent. They actively removed that element from the game because it does not fit with the story and game that they want to create. Taking a quote from over on the discord

"There will be no coercing anyone into doing things they’re not comfortable with."

Two big items on the list of No for sexual content to be included in the game
Rape/Sexual Assault/Sexual Harassment
Mind-Breaking and Enslavement.

The storyline doesn't have the opportunity to branch much so there could be an argument that there is some lack of agency there, but that wasn't the part your criticism was directed at. The game not featuring a particular person's favorite kinks does not 'diminish the game', but it may mean that they would do better to seek out a different game.

Sure - sounds like you're very invested in this game and the concept of cartoon consent. I'm not in the discord, so there's no reason for me to have seen that.

The story isn't substantially different at this point, and as I mentioned, the lack of player agency makes it feel very one note. TNH hasn't expanded all that much so far, it has the inklings of a narrative, but it's mostly just leaning into a heavily romance-driven set of interactions. That's totally a developer choice, but one that some people will appreciate more than others. More opportunity for the player to engage in the way that they want does expand the game, and choosing a more limited palette of interactions and narrative structures does 'diminish' relative to the source material. You're welcome to feel differently, of course.

 

[Mutation8888]

I appreciate the game overall - I think this is a really solid approach to leveraging the Rogue-Like scenario into a quality developed game. That said, one of the things I really enjoyed about Rogue-Like was the ability to take an alternative approach to the girls. The addiction mechanic meant that you had the option of keeping love low, being a general POS to people, and waiting for a girl to come to you for another 'fix'. It created a different dynamic that you could use in the game if you wanted, and I feel like the single "love" path here in TNH feels less interesting because of that lack.

So far I do not see that the MC has an addictive touch. They seem to be going in a different direction with the character. I literally sat in my room after contacting several individuals and they never looked for me. I think this is a slow burn effect where the power is more subtle and heavier over time.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[RandomNumber]

So far I do not see that the MC has an addictive touch. They seem to be going in a different direction with the character. I literally sat in my room after contacting several individuals and they never looked for me. I think this is a slow burn effect where the power is more subtle and heavier over time.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I don't get the impression that Null has RLE's addictive semen or any kind of pheremone anything at all. The changes to the girls' personalities over time seem to be purely fetishes that they develop through experiences and interactions, for example Laura becomes overprotective not because of some mental power but because you keep getting hurt and she's learning how much she cares about and doesn't want to lose you as the only person in her life she's close to, and you can encourage or discourage her to think that way by talking to her about it the way a normal person with no mind control would.

The fact that they're all willing to be in a polycule might need some explaining as the number of women grows, but for now it's more just something we should suspend our disbelief on (...although the Krakoa era of comics, or "Orgy Island" as some fans have taken to calling it, would imply that it's not that out of character for some of them)

It feels like the only reason Null and RLE both start out with Leech's powers is because it's the only way to touch Rogue. Otherwise, Null's actual power is more Mimic.

 

[someyoungguy]

Sure - sounds like you're very invested in this game and the concept of cartoon consent. I'm not in the discord, so there's no reason for me to have seen that.

The story isn't substantially different at this point, and as I mentioned, the lack of player agency makes it feel very one note. TNH hasn't expanded all that much so far, it has the inklings of a narrative, but it's mostly just leaning into a heavily romance-driven set of interactions. That's totally a developer choice, but one that some people will appreciate more than others. More opportunity for the player to engage in the way that they want does expand the game, and choosing a more limited palette of interactions and narrative structures does 'diminish' relative to the source material. You're welcome to feel differently, of course.

You wouldn't have to have been in the discord server to know that the dev's have never planned to include the addiction mechanic and have always intended the physical interactions with the LIs to be purely consensual. It has actually been discussed in this thread far more than it has in the discord server. It has been mentioned in response to a lot of questions about the game in general, but also in relation to how it effects a lot of the gameplay and relationship aspects of the game. Like, it's fine if you like those things about RLE, but this game has diverged from it significantly, which has also been talked to death in this thread. It isn't drawing from the same source material for its artistic direction and it's a different genre of game altogether from RLE, despite being inspired by it. RLE and it's dev have been criticised for a long time for never developing the story that was promised.

This game is less "What if RLE with consent?" and more "What if X-Men AVN with story?" If you don't like that it's fine, but the entire impetus for spinning this off into it's own project from what was originally going to be an RLE mod was that RLE promises a story but never delivers. Even the focus on consent is less a reaction to RLE's gameplay loop and more a reaction to those kinds of stories in the comics being very cringy and generally poorly handled by writers trying to romanticise nonconsensual physical relationships. Not enjoying the gameplay loop of this game vs RLE is also fine, but it's a weird move to be so adamant that this game should include RLE's gameplay loop when RLE already exists and you seem to enjoy it.

 

[ShinyBoots1993]

oh ok, I thought you literally meant the exact issue in which they appeared, if you guys are going by arcs/events than it's mostly useless trying to predict exactly which ones wil appear.

Oh I'd love if we could adapt EVERY issue. But people already complain about the grind. While most people seem to be fine with it or have given very useful tweaking suggestions, I don't think y'all would be fine with turning this completely into a VN.

Lila Cheney

Is now a good time to mention I have a 'Lila Cheney Galactic Tour '84' t-shirt, or is that showing my nerd credential hand too early?

Lila Cheney 10/10

I'm 100% serious. And it ain't no virus. I can play MAYBE a full day in-game before the text goes haywire. Usually happens during the sex menu.

Try joining the discord and sharing your crashlog. No one else has reported this specific kind of bug.

First off I think it'd be a bit less immersion-breaking if the white grid with black hearts was replaced with something a little more visually neutral like just a flat grey or brown background. (Obviously the ideal would be location-specific backgrounds but I get that's a fairly big resource-intensive ask especially given all the different possible positions.)

Oh that was specifically a placeholder. Location-specific backgrounds are a thing, we just ran out of budget by that point and patreon is being very kind. The more we get the more crazy we can go.

could still prove to be immersion breaking or mess up pacing in other ways.

We're working on it, I promise.

However, you can bypass that and kind of backdoor your way

Threeways were cut for time but we're working them back in. Please don't break the game in the process.

I'm a little worried that as the size of the cast/harem increases this could get overwhelming.

The world map will be growing in size and there will be some hard blocks.

*Especially* since there seem to be a lot of quest-progression-triggers that won't trigger if, e.g., you didn't spend the night sleeping alone in your own room.

We're working with quest triggers to make them more reliable. Right now it's just working on a weight system.

I also feel like it's (one of many) good reasons not to let the harem get TOO out of control...lord knows if we end up adding every single hot mutant chick to ever appear in an X-Comic to our harem we'd be making the protagonist of WVM look like a rank amateur....and it'll get pretty damn silly in a LOT of respects.

Dude the jokes I have to put up with Null having 100 wives in a giant mansion.

The Clothing Menu

Yeah that's being fixed real quick.

Wishlist

Anything is possible.

What's the consensus on combat right now?

Something we want, not even close to being test ready.

Is anything other than turn-based feasible in Ren'Py?

Not that I know of.

I, for one, would love a Lila Cheney cameo.

Ah I see you too are also a man of culture.

The story isn't substantially different at this point

I swear I'm gonna make a side-by-side comparison chart of some sort to point out how drastically different the games are at this point.

Even the focus on consent is less a reaction to RLE's gameplay loop and more a reaction to those kinds of stories in the comics being very cringy and generally poorly handled by writers trying to romanticise nonconsensual physical relationships

This. Us dropping addiction and dominance had nothing to do with RLE's gameplay loop. It was our heavy focus on story.

Not enjoying the gameplay loop of this game vs RLE is also fine, but it's a weird move to be so adamant that this game should include RLE's gameplay loop when RLE already exists and you seem to enjoy it.

I mean the contents of the signature make it ironic.

Don't show up in threads and whine about content you don't like. Nobody wants to hear about your personal preferences. Wanting accurate tagging is cool, crying about content is for giant babies.

 

[Mutation8888]

I don't get the impression that Null has RLE's addictive semen or any kind of pheremone anything at all. The changes to the girls' personalities over time seem to be purely fetishes that they develop through experiences and interactions, for example Laura becomes overprotective not because of some mental power but because you keep getting hurt and she's learning how much she cares about and doesn't want to lose you as the only person in her life she's close to, and you can encourage or discourage her to think that way by talking to her about it the way a normal person with no mind control would.

The fact that they're all willing to be in a polycule might need some explaining as the number of women grows, but for now it's more just something we should suspend our disbelief on (...although the Krakoa era of comics, or "Orgy Island" as some fans have taken to calling it, would imply that it's not that out of character for some of them)

It feels like the only reason Null and RLE both start out with Leech's powers is because it's the only way to touch Rogue. Otherwise, Null's actual power is more Mimic.

Could be, I am just going off of the evidence provided by interactions with each character including Storm who has had barely any interaction with the MC yet visits him and states to herself how she wished "the bright lady would spare her from this childish embarrassment." Nothing seen yet concerning what she is talking about, but it seems that she is developing some embarrassment regarding the MC other wise she would not be mentioning it in front of him. We really do not know how the MC was prior to utilizing his power, but the MC seems surprised by the ladies being so interested in him and Nightcrawler keeps hinting at something else going on. If the MC was a chick magnet prior to having powers, great, but that does not seem to be the case. The MC actually states that he is not using any different shampoo...

I have not even gone into the MCs power, that is fairly obvious he has a power copying ability based in what seems to be nullification that actually simulates the powers it contacts (although it could be simpler than that and just be straight up reality alteration power since he keeps wishing for powers only to have them appear). What needs to occur at this point is some experimentation on male mutants to see if his touch has the same "interesting" physical effect on them as it does females.

 

[DarkKat]

I don't think y'all would be fine with turning this completely into a VN.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it leaning more into the VN route. I'm really enjoying the story and slow burn, in my opinion it makes the pay off better in a romance leaning game.