- Jul 28, 2017
- 433
- 2,981
Ren'Py The Null Hypothesis [v0.7b] [Ron Chon]
- Thread starter ronchonbon
- Start date
This is fair and concise. I'll pass it over to the dev team.
You know what? Fair. I'll mention this if discussion of it comes up.
I wish I could my dude. We're 268 pages in. I can ask the discord users if they have the know how because some of our beta testers are android users.
Yes but several on this website, and no offense to RLE, are not the complex ones.
More than okay. We just have 3 unofficial rules of conduct. Not accusing you of breaking them, just establishing them.
1. We don't bash either game. You don't need to tear down one queen to raise another.
2. We're not "RLE with better art."
3. We know the game isn't as pure of a sandbox as RLE. That is intentional. We have no plans on making the game more like RLE.
The thing about this is that RLE doesn't have quests or longform narrative. It's an open sandbox that has girls airdropped into it as development goes on. There are small introductions and the occasional event, such as the Halloween one, but for the most part it's just a sex simulator.
This is not me saying RLE is bad. I say this because if people want a primarily sex based experience, then they should play RLE instead of TNH.
That, again, is not me telling people to shut up and not provide their opinion or thoughts. We, the dev team, just acknowledge that our game isn't going to meet the needs or desires of everyone and if people would have more fun with RLE, then we rather them do that than not have fun with TNH.
This is a very good point and I'll make sure to use this metaphor when I talk with the devs.
However, and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, TNH is still in early beta and much of it is incomplete. When I say this, it's to assure people that yes, we know some things don't feel finished or don't work great. The reason is because people forget that we've barely started and expect things to be feature complete when RLE has had like... 9? years to flesh itself out.
No you're fair in this assessment. Our beta testers have most likely figured out the system and don't think to mention potential improvement in this aspect since from their time working with it, they don't consider it an issue.Or I am a dummy, and/or just haven't read carefully enough. It is, as saying goes, sometimes better be silent and be considered fool, than speak and leave no doubt, but so far I seem to be doubling down
I'm not allowed to spoil but let's just say that constantly choosing the "boyscout option" may have people call you a boyscout.
This is not an attack on Oni but this statement is simply incorrect. Oni frequently airdrops girls with limited, and I believe in Storm's case NO, sexual interactions(The irony is not lost on me). When we launched our first alpha, you could go through the story, romance, and then fuck all three of our girls to completion.
Us adding more events to the girls isn't us completing something that was incomplete. It was us acting on requests and fleshing them out by adding a more engaging method of getting stats than simply "grinding."
One point that could be argued is that we have yet to add cowgirl and footjobs. We did cut that for time as we did have to make multiple delays due to real life complications. Though those are being added in the next big art update.
While I know I said our game is incomplete up above, we made 100% sure that the girls themselves were complete. Everything we add to them now is just continuation or additional content. Which is, again not to bash Oni, more than what the girls in his game currently have.
Don't you fuckin' lie (I joke)
Okay I want to add this last bit because it's important that this be known. When I bring up Oni, it is not to negatively critique his work or to bash on RLE. It's simply that the games are different and I have to be firm in reminding people that we're not the same game and that our development cycles are different. People to this day still refer to us as "RLE but with better art."
Key differences.
RLE is a open sandbox trainer game that focuses on dominating girls.
TNH is a narrative focused dating simulator with sandbox elements that focuses on monogynous or polyamorous relationships.
(Despite us trying to have the trainer tag removed more than once, F95's staff continues to add it despite us not being a trainer game)
Both games can and should exist simultaneously.
This is the kind of solidarity I like to see.
- Jun 15, 2022
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Wait till you read up on intermittent reinforcement (Vegas style positive reinforcement). That is far more insidious and difficult to break out of.. basically sets people up for addictive behaviors.
Ugh! My worse nightmare. Being called Cyclops. (Half joking).I'm not allowed to spoil but let's just say that constantly choosing the "boyscout option" may have people call you a boyscout.
I just took a test on this shit and I'm sorry but I REFUSE to go further down this line of thought for my own sanity.
- Jun 15, 2022
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Yeah, but it is so ingrained in our lives, almost impossible to avoid. It is actually one of my favorite forms of reinforcement. Getting someone to do something that they are only rewarded for randomly and only occasionally is hilarious. Like saying "maybe" they will get paid for doing a job. But I get you. Save your mind and relax, you deserve a break.I just took a test on this shit and I'm sorry but I REFUSE to go further down this line of thought for my own sanity.
No wonder we start the game with an evil psychology professor.
In games that do this kind of thing, sticking with one is usually better. Currently in TNH I'm just choosing whichever response actually makes sense to me at the time, which so far is a mostly even split between Determined (save the girl in the mall, that's noble and doable) and Bitter (don't attack Juggernaut with like a week of combat training under your belt, suicide is not the answer). This is probably gonna get my Null labeled indecisive and unpredictable, and lose him any bonuses that accrue from any path.
...Go compare the current completeness of Betsy in the latest RLE build with any of the girls in TNH and see if you still feel that way.
Oh this I'm allowed to give some detail into. Being unpredictable is a good thing. Some characters will like it, might even find it a turn on, but others will see it as you being a wild card, or view you as not easy to manipulate. Some girls will like it, some won't.
And breaking tradition for one or two choices won't set you as "Unpredictable Null." That'd just be pigeonholding y'all and practically destroy any roleplay.
Edit: A game that I think gets too much hate. Dragon Age 2. If you are diplomatic enough you'll have a reputation for being reasonable, but that doesn't stop you from choosing the "I'm going to rip your head off" option which would shock people unless you always chose that option and thus had a reputation for being a violent asshole.
Which comparing Null to Hawke is a good example of what level of RPG we're going for.
When it comes to RPG protagonists I have two points in a spectrum.
1. JC Denton from Deus Ex*
He has a set job, set relationships, set history. However, you can decide basically every aspect of his personality. Is he a rogue maverick? Is he by the book investigator? Is he a violent sociopath?
2. The Courier from Fallout New Vegas
There's fuck all set in stone other than you did a stint as a Courier. You can control literally everything else.
Hawke from Dragon Age 2 is adjacent to JC in that both games could just strip your freedom of choice and be scripted like Modern Warfare or something. Though actually Null's backstory is blank enough for you to construct yourself... I need a nap.
*I mean in personality freedom, we ain't making an immersive sim.
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I saw CBT and Jean and got really excited. What I would do to have Jean stomp on Null's balls with soccer cleats.
- Jun 29, 2020
- 44
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When i tried using notepad last time - the file broke, and refused to work, so i had to use notepad++
How ironic. The last time I worked with notepad++ for work, it crashed and ate the entire file I was working on. Like almost literally. The file only had like the first few lines of code and the rest was corrupted.
I just blitzed through this game and it's surprisingly deep. You can see the inspiration from Rogue-like Evolution but there's more depth and thought put into the game design. I actually liked the lore bits and read them! The comic recommendations included shows an attention to detail and a love of the characters. Rogue, Laura and Jean were actually interesting and I didn't skip most of the dialog. They actually felt like characters instead of Rogue-like Evolution's caricatures.
As for the gameplay, the quality of life features are great! 3 quick travel spots was fucking amazing, picking Classroom, Danger room, MC's room made the whole game a lot more enjoyable because I could avoid the menu during the exp/affection grind. The smartphone interface was probably the most annoying aspect for me because everything else felt so streamlined and easy to navigate, that anytime I needed to pull up the phone (which thankfully wasn't often) I sighed. Even the sex HUD was pretty damn good, I might have liked some more streamlining but I was surprised by how intuitive the system was for all the options it gave.
The progression, and level up mechanics were good, but it was a bit more of grind than I would have liked at times but that can easily be fixed with tuning. The Mutation system is probably the best method to fix that kind of stuff since training and studying grants EXP so mutations and modifiers can fix any grind issues. Maybe even a "lesser mutation" menu to let players gain targeted bonuses to reduce the grind ever so slightly.
Narratively, I get that you can't skip important events but the lack of player agency seemingly hurt this game's replay value. At times I felt I was just completing other objectives because my target girl's affection was maxed out for the season. If girls could continue to gain affection beyond the seasonal limit, that would be nice. Even if it were at a perpetually reduced rate until you progressed the story it would reward players without the need to min/max, at least give me the option to grind my way to sex with a girl earlier than the narrative allows. Since we're expected to have a relationship (friendly or otherwise) with the girls to progress there is less reason to replay because outside of a few variables it doesn't feel like choosing different girls on new playthroughs would have much impact.
Don't get me wrong because the devs put so much work into the characters it's not a terrible experience (Jean Grey is much better) but Maybe I don't want to deal with another girl's drama when I'm trying to romance Rogue? To be fair, I didn't pick the straight up asshole dialog options so I might be missing some of this game's depth.
However, part of the charm of Rogue-Like Evolution is that I can straight up ignore girls or completely change how I romance them. Yes, they all end up the same which is one of that game's short comings. The Null Hypothesis has a better story hands down, but in term of player agency it feels a bit too limited. Again, maybe I'm missing something or maybe these dev's do such a better job of hiding things under the hood to make the variations more seamless but for good or ill, player choice feels less impactful and progression gated.
Art style wise I've got no complaints. it's solid, and the clothes system is deep with enough variations. Honestly, it was one of the nicest surprises while playing. Rogue-like Evolution has a needlessly robust and glitchy 'dress up' system so I wasn't expecting much with this art style being so detailed. I honestly, have more faith in these devs than Oni to give us interesting and unique costumes. Savage Land Rogue? Madeline Pryor (Jean)? Black Queen (Phoenix-Jean)? it feels like these guys could give me that, where as with Oni... yeah.
To be honest, the only thing I feel is missing from this game is Kitty Pryde. It's got the tomboy (Laura) the hard worker (Jean), The girl in need of a hero (Rogue), but the absence of a bubbly/positive girl archetype really would make this game feel more complete in terms of romance options. Also with these devs there's a good chance of getting some fun costume options for her too, OG Shadowcat costume, Anyone?
Regardless, I'm really hopeful for this game's future. This could have been a review but I didn't do enough due diligence in my mind to justify that so take this as my first impressions and views. If you bothered to read this whole thing thanks.
TLDR: I liked this game.
As for the gameplay, the quality of life features are great! 3 quick travel spots was fucking amazing, picking Classroom, Danger room, MC's room made the whole game a lot more enjoyable because I could avoid the menu during the exp/affection grind. The smartphone interface was probably the most annoying aspect for me because everything else felt so streamlined and easy to navigate, that anytime I needed to pull up the phone (which thankfully wasn't often) I sighed. Even the sex HUD was pretty damn good, I might have liked some more streamlining but I was surprised by how intuitive the system was for all the options it gave.
The progression, and level up mechanics were good, but it was a bit more of grind than I would have liked at times but that can easily be fixed with tuning. The Mutation system is probably the best method to fix that kind of stuff since training and studying grants EXP so mutations and modifiers can fix any grind issues. Maybe even a "lesser mutation" menu to let players gain targeted bonuses to reduce the grind ever so slightly.
Narratively, I get that you can't skip important events but the lack of player agency seemingly hurt this game's replay value. At times I felt I was just completing other objectives because my target girl's affection was maxed out for the season. If girls could continue to gain affection beyond the seasonal limit, that would be nice. Even if it were at a perpetually reduced rate until you progressed the story it would reward players without the need to min/max, at least give me the option to grind my way to sex with a girl earlier than the narrative allows. Since we're expected to have a relationship (friendly or otherwise) with the girls to progress there is less reason to replay because outside of a few variables it doesn't feel like choosing different girls on new playthroughs would have much impact.
Don't get me wrong because the devs put so much work into the characters it's not a terrible experience (Jean Grey is much better) but Maybe I don't want to deal with another girl's drama when I'm trying to romance Rogue? To be fair, I didn't pick the straight up asshole dialog options so I might be missing some of this game's depth.
However, part of the charm of Rogue-Like Evolution is that I can straight up ignore girls or completely change how I romance them. Yes, they all end up the same which is one of that game's short comings. The Null Hypothesis has a better story hands down, but in term of player agency it feels a bit too limited. Again, maybe I'm missing something or maybe these dev's do such a better job of hiding things under the hood to make the variations more seamless but for good or ill, player choice feels less impactful and progression gated.
Art style wise I've got no complaints. it's solid, and the clothes system is deep with enough variations. Honestly, it was one of the nicest surprises while playing. Rogue-like Evolution has a needlessly robust and glitchy 'dress up' system so I wasn't expecting much with this art style being so detailed. I honestly, have more faith in these devs than Oni to give us interesting and unique costumes. Savage Land Rogue? Madeline Pryor (Jean)? Black Queen (Phoenix-Jean)? it feels like these guys could give me that, where as with Oni... yeah.
To be honest, the only thing I feel is missing from this game is Kitty Pryde. It's got the tomboy (Laura) the hard worker (Jean), The girl in need of a hero (Rogue), but the absence of a bubbly/positive girl archetype really would make this game feel more complete in terms of romance options. Also with these devs there's a good chance of getting some fun costume options for her too, OG Shadowcat costume, Anyone?
Regardless, I'm really hopeful for this game's future. This could have been a review but I didn't do enough due diligence in my mind to justify that so take this as my first impressions and views. If you bothered to read this whole thing thanks.
TLDR: I liked this game.
We're always willing and trying to make navigation better.
I mean branching story beats and dialogue/interactions exclusive to how you act sounds like plenty of replay value and your ability to choose sounds like there is player agency.
Admittedly, Chapter 1 is an introduction to the setting as it's not an exact copy of the mainline comics. Chapter 2 onwards as well as some side content will show more.
The limit is there for a reason. Progression wise, the time you spend in each season should only be about 2 weeks depending on what's going on. When you progress to the next one, all the stuff that would objectively be grinding happens off screen.
Like we want to focus on relationships but do you guys want to do chores and talk about the weather while doing homework to get 1% up in trust and be unable to talk to characters because you're cramming for midterms? That'd be a little too realistic in the relationship building.
So the removal of the cap when the season transitions is Null doing the less exciting bits of relationship building off screen.
While maybe something could be done to enable certain sex acts earlier if you play your cards right, we're careful on how we go about that because 1. We want the narrative to make sense and 2. We actively put effort into ensuring there's no "optimal path."
We're splitting up the quirk system so that it's more customizable. So rather than the binary of quirk or no quirk you have a lot more to choose from.
Since you like Jean I'll break it down with her in mind.
Without a quirk she's just a modern update from her 60s counterpart. With a quirk she's a control freak with a faux-incest complex.
However with our revisions, you can encourage the dom aspect without the incest kink. Or you can encourage the incest kink without the dom aspect. Or you can have regular Jean act dominate.
Along with this, we're allowing you to have all these combinations while remaining platonic. So if you enable dommy big sis Jean but don't date her. She'll boss you around like a bigger sister and complain about all those "hussies" that you're dating. It may not sound all too fun but from dev discussions some of the things that can happen are HILARIOUS.
And that's just counting one girl and not even discussing her changed behavior/involvement in the main narrative or side content.
You don't. In the current build you only need to get a minimum trust value and see less than half of their total events just so they're not a complete stranger when you interact with them in the main story.
Like once you tell Laura to be friends with Rogue and get enough hand to hand lessons, I think that's the end of required content.
"Bitter Null" isn't meant to be "Asshole Null." In fact all three girls appreciate a bitter comment contextually. An example is Laura liking your lack of forgiveness for the people who took part in the riot.
As said this is just the world introduction. A lot of stuff is gonna pay off and/or get more complicated going forward.
Also the intro alone has 4 different outcomes with like 8 different variations within it.
A lot of people zoom through the content and think there's no replay value... without actually attempting to replay it to see what they missed.
While we're adapting the mainline comics narratively, outfits from any and all material and alternate universes and timelines are on the table.
And intro ends at which point? Zoomed past it, I guess.
By the way, why there is no "Load" button at the title screen? What if I don't want to "Continue"?
We’re Zooming through the VN because it’s boring to do, and so is the grind. I would prefer more of getting-the-dick-wet-as-soon-as-possible-MC rather than this pussy who waits for a year before he makes a meaningful move. The choices aren’t that meaningful (actually they’re not meaningful at all), it’s just a puzzle to get the best opinion gains. I would prefer corruption, manipulation and gaslighting rather than this nice guy w fedora type shit. The main focus should go into the sex scene, to make many variations that would spice up things visually but also with the erotic aura. Of course that the corruption would require some grind as well, which is why there should be more different options of doing it, also more generic dialogue options. Clothing system is pretty robust, right now it only needs more clothes and accessories (not necessarily comic stuff, rather sexier clothes, stuff for footfags etc.
I was mostly wondering because Cyclops' blasts are kinetic energy, or usually are, to my understanding.
That being said after doing a bit of research, apparently the powers are never explicitly stated, mostly just shown. One of the exceptions being a comic in the 60's where Cyclops absorbed energy from the sun.
Then go play a game you find fun?
None of this will make it into the game. It's not open to discussion or debate. If you want to experience this content, then I respectfully request that you find a game you will enjoy.