Ren'Py The Sin Within [v0.4.5] [CigarRex]
- Thread starter CigarRex
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- May 24, 2020
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I don't mind sandbox games if that part of it is done the right way. Can't wait to see what you come up with for future updates.
- Jul 28, 2019
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is this game staying in sandbox mode or you going back to VN? Cause your story telling is miles better than your sandbox building.
It'll stay a sandbox. There will be big events eventually, but it's a sandbox till the end. Feel free to leave constructive feedback as well
- Jul 28, 2019
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well all my feedback is with the review i left a year ago (the one that with the most likes so far on the review page here, and still gathering btw) and this comment. The sandbox aint shit tbh, hundreds of games done that and failed (like you now), even if it takes you longer you should have stayed with VN, your sandbox skills aint up to par compared to YOUR story telling, fuck that love and lust collecting shit, you just want to make a quick buck while not doing shit is what it feels like, paste the same shit png while you pad the game time, its like you spit in our faces after the amazing VN part, why did you switch it up? did i hit it on the head with the review?
I'm not very interested in spending my time with you if that's how angry you are at my game. But I am a fool.
It was always labeled as a sandbox game, never once did this game get the "VN" tag on this website, nor did I ever advertise it as anything else other than a sandbox. The prologue is massive because the story is massive, and requires a massive setup, besides also being an exercise for me.
It's not a sandbox to "pad out time" so that I "make a quick buck not doing shit". As if people need to pay a monthly fee like World of Warcraft to play this free game? Lmao? And as if releasing an update with 2 times the amount of actual images than either part of the prologue is "not doing shit".
I wanted to make it a sandbox - to tell its story in a sandbox environment, simply because sandbox games have always been my preferred kind of porn games. Friction (e.g earning money, leveling up girls) is a big part of that, since it creates anticipation for the payoffs (getting new scenes with the girls and progressing the story). And exploration, when done well, makes that world more meaningful to me as I play the game, making the actual h-scenes more interesting once we get there.
If you have specific issues with my sandbox approach, I'm all ears. But if you, or any other tired guy comes here to bitch about the sandbox game being a sandbox, go make your own game or something else. I know that's how I got started.
If that's the case, just leave this thread and don't come back, please.
- Sep 28, 2020
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Just as hundreds of games got made in sandbox and succeded, and hundreds more got made in VN and failed. A non-point right there.
You know what I personally think is a gigantic waste of time? Games that expect me to play it 10 times over with a guide in my lap, so I can actually see the content it has to offer. Games such as BaDik, which you seem to like.
People have their preferences, and yours isn't worth changing the dev's vision for his own game. If you hate sandbox games, you should not be playing them, let alone reviewing them.
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- Jul 28, 2019
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Ahh yes the "make your own game" rebuttal, sure let me just hop on and make a game. I think you completely missed my point, if you make a game with 4 hours of absolutely amazing VN story start and change it to sandbox like the 500th sandbox game on this site that never makes it (or like STS, the badly rated, money printing machine that it is) and see it but just copy it to make more money because you have to make money, dont bother, with that mindset you aint gonna make it big, yes i LOVED your start to the game, i LOVE fantasy setting with mysteries to the story, but when i get to a point of the game where it just changes to the sandbox setting where i farm 90% for some puss im gonna go play some other game, sorry, but thats the truth, i dont want to sound like a douche even tho i do, but getting 6 ratings once a week on a year-old review, since your update to the game sure has to say something.
You fail to understand one key detail.
It never "changed into" a sandbox. It was always one. I had coded the entire sandbox system long before I started the prologue, and it was plastered everywhere that this was a sandbox. 0.2, the end of the prologue, already led you to the house sandbox immediately after finishing it up.
If you fell victim to your own inability to read, I'm sure it's no fault of mine.
I do keep receipts.where you said that this game is going to be sandbox
https://f95zone.to/threads/im-approaching-my-first-game-release-so-i-figured-id-say-hi.152179/
I'm a bit hesitant to jump into this at this particular moment lest it seem like I'm joining the fray, but dev seems pretty level-headed so I'll bet I can clear it up easily enough.
So uh, to reiterate for the sake of clarity... I'm not angry, I don't feel tricked, and from the recent comments I think the dev's the decent sort. Hopefully that's clear enough.
I really like pretty much every aspect of this game except for the sandbox. And it's bad enough that I don't want to play the game.
The biggest issue I have with it is just a matter of time. So much time is spent just managing the sandbox aspect of things. It takes a not insignificant amount of time to navigate around to characters/events, given the amount of interactions and events you do. The time of day and day of week systems also mean you can't even get into any kind of grove to spam-click your way back to a particular character/event in immediate succession.
A single scene often requires you to go through several iterations of looking at options, making a decision, inputting your selection, and then repeating. You can see this play out when comparing the house to the map. The house information is presented without needing an explicit input, and can be immediately selected. It's so much more pleasant to deal with just the house. I don't like the house sandbox overall, but it's far from a deal-breaker.
There's also a lot of time wasted seeing the same things over again. This happens either because it's not clear you're done, or you need to grind, or you're just checking if you tripped a flag, or just an accident because you failed to remember you already finished that interaction/event.
The addition of the location to the character screen is a nice concept, but... that screen is such a pain to navigate already. It's a couple screens deep and then you find a massive scrollbar. And then you need to click yet another variablely-positioned button... which often tells you that character is nowhere. And then either you need to re-plan and figure out something else to check, or have to back out of everything to advance time, before diving back into the several layers of menu and then scrolling again.
I can't say I love all the other standard sandbox trade-offs either, but especially with this game I can live with them. You get some basic repetitive intro lines over and over, but it's not that big a deal. And many of the interactions/events are unusually lengthy, which helps a lot too.
It's just really hard to want to pick up up again when I find I've spent way more time than I wanted, yet have only moved things along a little bit.
So uh, to reiterate for the sake of clarity... I'm not angry, I don't feel tricked, and from the recent comments I think the dev's the decent sort. Hopefully that's clear enough.
I really like pretty much every aspect of this game except for the sandbox. And it's bad enough that I don't want to play the game.
The biggest issue I have with it is just a matter of time. So much time is spent just managing the sandbox aspect of things. It takes a not insignificant amount of time to navigate around to characters/events, given the amount of interactions and events you do. The time of day and day of week systems also mean you can't even get into any kind of grove to spam-click your way back to a particular character/event in immediate succession.
A single scene often requires you to go through several iterations of looking at options, making a decision, inputting your selection, and then repeating. You can see this play out when comparing the house to the map. The house information is presented without needing an explicit input, and can be immediately selected. It's so much more pleasant to deal with just the house. I don't like the house sandbox overall, but it's far from a deal-breaker.
There's also a lot of time wasted seeing the same things over again. This happens either because it's not clear you're done, or you need to grind, or you're just checking if you tripped a flag, or just an accident because you failed to remember you already finished that interaction/event.
The addition of the location to the character screen is a nice concept, but... that screen is such a pain to navigate already. It's a couple screens deep and then you find a massive scrollbar. And then you need to click yet another variablely-positioned button... which often tells you that character is nowhere. And then either you need to re-plan and figure out something else to check, or have to back out of everything to advance time, before diving back into the several layers of menu and then scrolling again.
I can't say I love all the other standard sandbox trade-offs either, but especially with this game I can live with them. You get some basic repetitive intro lines over and over, but it's not that big a deal. And many of the interactions/events are unusually lengthy, which helps a lot too.
It's just really hard to want to pick up up again when I find I've spent way more time than I wanted, yet have only moved things along a little bit.
Just wanna say, I love the sandbox part, even tho it takes alotta time to unlock scenes and all that, it lowkey makes the game more interesting to play and more satsifying when you get them scenes after working hard. It has it's own charm imo and i like the fact that i get to play a game that i really like for a pretty long duration. Cheers
P.s. if i had something i wanna be improved upon, it would be giving us the ability to skip repeat sandbox scenes after viewing them once.
P.s. if i had something i wanna be improved upon, it would be giving us the ability to skip repeat sandbox scenes after viewing them once.
NOOOOOO! HOW DARE YOU NOT LIKE MY SANDBOX?!?!? I WILL KILL YOUR FAMILY!
lol.
Of course, many thanks for leaving this comment. It's exactly the kind of feedback I was asking for, but some people simply resort to shit-flinging and calling names instead of trying to help, which is a shame.
I'll try to address a few issues here, pardon if I come off as incompetent.
By the map, you mean the map-screen right?
If you're wondering, the reason I decided to make the map-screen open up a sub-map for the regions there - I do intend on adding a lot of locations over time. Having only one map for all of it would challenge the screen real estate of that interface, and I find the sub-map solution to ease any worries I could have in that regard.
I assume, a big problem with exploring around is realizing what you still need to do, what you've done, and so on right?
I tried implementing a check for events you've seen already whenever choosing a Menu option (as the text grays out if you've seen that scene once), but the only quick way to implement it was to use a RenPy function that only applies cross-save, for some cursed reason.
Not to mention there not being any checks for if you've seen some or all content with a character whenever they're somewhere clickable. I guess a golden standard for me was how Sweet Affection used to handle this, with a little Green checkmark for all of these without ambiguity.
Of course, there also is the fact that there are a lot of scenes to see, and variants of scenes to explore if certain conditions are met. I have the most fun whenever I am coming up with "even more stuff to see" than would be expected - which leads to all those winding menus of different choices you can pick and so on. That is a bit hard to work around if the concern is "taking too long to explore it all", but I agree that tracking what's done could help a lot.
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Of course, my current idea for "consulting what's left to do" lays in the Gallery. That one, at least, I've taken the time to try and explain as clearly as possible what needs to be done for each scene to be unlocked, bar the odd few I want to remain cool secrets to be found on your own. It doubles as a proper "checklist" of all relevant content you have to see until finishing the current version, so I would like to hear what you think of that approach - if you've used it, and so on...
The "Help App" will also be looked into for 0.5.0, since it will be a pretty dense update feature-wise. Explaining things like week periods, love conditions, lust levels and yadda yadda could help a lot if done well.
Another idea I had, too, was coming up with an in-game guide/quest-log for each character that dynamically adjusts itself with your progress, listing absolutely required things you need to further content with them. Something also mind-numbing to code, but could probably help a lot?
E.g:
Mom's quest line - Level Love to 100 -> Bring the family to the resort -> ... -> Level her to Lust 2 -> ...
Karla's quest line - Eavesdrop on Karla and Chloe at LoveZone, Afternoon -> Meet them at LoveZone Midnight -> Level Love to 100 -> ...
Could simply be another sub-menu to the contacts app, since that's where everyone is already. Though, I'm aware of the many sub-menus you have to click to get through...
I added the Search Bar to ease up on having to scroll all the way to the character you want, it should come in handy when you want to be specific. But the time thing is very true... I will look into adding a "Pass Time" button within the Contact Screen ASAP to help with that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Do you have any other grievances to point out? Or solutions/suggestions regarding them... I hardly have any QA or playtesters to help me out with other perspectives regarding the game design, so I really appreciate feedback coming from anyone.
That's also something I've been bothered with before. Maybe I'll look into it.
- Aug 11, 2019
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Perhaps it would be better if scenes with no new content (just repeats) were displayed in a different way. It would be easier to search for new events. Anyway, skipping can also be done with Ren'Py features.
Looks like Karla's got a puzzle for us !
I bet that, as a fellow top hat enjoyer, Greed is quite good at solving puzzles. Mostly because I don't picture him wanting to spend any coin on the answer.
Jokes aside, I suggest to avoid only making the cross green once a scene's done and changing the shape instead (to a check i.e). It's always nice to spare a tought to our daltonian friends !