Thanks again for your elaborative response! Whoa, we are opposites! Our preferences are like night and day lol.
Firstly on the topic of my preference, being a gay guy, pretty much anything lesbian or and remotely sapphic is pointless to me, but I can still appreciate them on an intellectual level even when the content isn't really something that I'm personally invested in should the content be interesting enough. My preference for female characters and protagonists is for them to be vessel of interaction with the male characters. This is why I tend to like straight stories where a woman is acted on by men from the woman's perspective, but not necessarily a story where a man acts on women from the man's perspective, though if the male protagonist is hot enough I can give this a pass. However it would kill any chance of immersion from me when a male character/protagonist isn't much of a character at all (like having no face, personality, and presence) and/or isn't attractive (ugly bastards and twinks/shota's can fuck right off). I dislike straight h-games with a faceless male character/protagonist that are designed for straight guys to project into for this reason, because they inevitably solely focus on the women at the expense of the male characters which means I have nothing to invest in, and I don't enjoy having immersive POV sex with women, thank you very much.
(Yet strangely enough, NTR games tend to not have this be a problem for me because they inevitably make characters with faces, personality, and presence that's distinct and sometimes more masculine compared to the likely featureless protagonist, so I have been gravitating to them in the past years. Also there's something about boring fictional straight guy pain and tears that is just so cathartic and sweet lol.)
Secondly on the topic of non-consensual interactions, I feel that we are of a similar mind. The reason that I personally don't like non-opt-out-able non-consensual interactions is because I want to enjoy an experience without the complications that non-consensual situations create, which are drawing too much attention to the female characters than what I'm comfortable with and breaking my immersion and engagement by compromising the boundaries of participation that makes the experience enjoyable in the first place. I definitely agree that the content that's not opt-out-able is a very glaring flaw in the game that can care so much about its characters as it betrays the conceit of the branching paths that the game is centered on. For me its emblematic of the general lack of consistency in quality that defines the game's low points.
Thirdly on your thoughts on the redemption arc, I really appreciate that we differ in why we like Kate, I like how her messiness gives her potential and want her to grow by overcoming them and I’m guessing you on the other hand like Kate for who she is and don’t want her compromised. I think this speaks to Kate’s compellingness, don’t you agree?
I definitely agree that there need to be some variations in this potential scene that takes our decisions into account. I think your issues could be easily mitigated by having your grievances towards such an attempt at redemption be something that Sarah herself is written to express to Kate as she attempts it, which would actually justify the attempt at Kate redeeming herself more as emotions of deep-seated hurt can bubble into the surface. I like messy relationships with that overcomes problems with healthy communication so this works well for me, how about you?
My view is that think that Kate's messiness simultaneously gives her both a problem that needs fixing and a potential for greatness that must not be wasted and be actualized. Her mistake is something important that she needs to go out of her way to address and deal with by her own initiative independent of our own input for the greater good of her character and her relationship with Sarah, as regardless of whether we choose to forgive and move past it or not, her flaws and mistake defines her too much to ignore and needs to be resolved so it doesn't complicate Kate's continued participation in the plot, her and Sarah's characters, and their potential relationship with each other by setting up a healthy foundation for the two of them, as well as making Kate into a well-realized character deserving of the spotlight. I see it be a painful but necessary thing that needs to happen, as it leads to a more meaningful story for everyone. The greater good of the narrative I feel is dependent on it, breaking Chekov's Law is a bad idea for any story, "As a rule, when something is established, it needs to play a part in the story. If it doesn't then it needs to be written out." So her estblished flaws and mistakes need to be addressed and resolved, not neglected. Otherwise, those unresolved flaws and mistakes and by extension the Kate that continues to be defined by them would become as much a cancer to the narrative as the mystery was in the mage route.
Thoughts of a different path
I guess another option that could be cool is then having the choice to mitigate Kate's crimes somewhat, maybe by having a choice that prevent Kate from stealing Sarah's jewels? Though I'm not sure how that would play out since the jewels then would have to play a part in the narrative. I guess she can invest them to create a mercantile business. Adding a mercantile element to the mercenary company would be cool, since other than the wealth of those jewels her status as a princess means she must have valuable connections too that can be used to sponsor and start up such a venture. Sarah could be like a CEO of a company with its own military force, shaping her world by fighting battles of force and politics with economics and military violence. It would certainly give her resources and huge sway in the practices of the mercenary group in contrast to her current helplessness if she handles the economy and resources of the company, after all wars are fought with economics just as much as violence and politics. It would give her actual means to meaningfully fight against the horde and aid her people, Rosanna refugees and slaves are a very accessible workforce after all after the fall of the kingdom, maybe she can even help them make a new home somewhere, a town like a New Rosanna/Little Rosanna, Orwellton, or Thomaston or even make a new nation of her own shaped by her ideals and our choices. It would make an interesting story if the writer can do it justice.
What do you guys think? Is this good enough?
Well, you are good at formatting your text in ways that look nice, I try to keep my reply shaped in a way that makes it easy to read at least, but sadly that's all I can really do.
Let's start with a quick reply to what you describe as your preferences and tolerances, as you probably would have assumed I loath NTR to the point where it is an absolute deal breaker for any game. If there's unavoidable NTR I'm out, without any exception from the rule. At the same time I do see the logic behind what you say is your own stance on it and I certainly have no intend to even comment on other people's preferences there. It's just that, personally, I have absolutely no interest in having anything to do with it, not even in games.
In regards to protagonists: I do absolutely agree that faceless male protagonists in games specifically made for people with interest in straight content are pretty uninspiring and uninteresting. Not the type of game I would enjoy either.
I used to be way more tolerant in regards to protagonist sex and stuff, but over the past few years I reached a point where I'm like "well I'm not interested in that sort of stuff, why even bother play it". Exceptions from that rule are games like The Witcher or Deus Ex, where the narrative and gameplay as well as the story itself AND the protagonists personality + voice acting are just so good that it makes up for the fact that I won't be able to enjoy the romantic aspects of the game (Witcher) even in the slightest.
Obviously, for a lot of lewd games, that isn't the case cause their focus is on sexuality & sometimes romance as well, and there I just see no point in ignoring my personal dislike just to see a mediocre story (if there even is any).
on the topic of non-consensual interactions (hah, I just copy paste part of what you did to make it look nicer x) )
Yeah I do see your point & reasoning there. For me it's not about the female character centered moments though but the fact that this sort of shit (in a game that claims to be "realistic" to quite some degree) has consequences beyond what most Devs even seem to WANT to think about, let alone implement them, it effects to many things to really even represent it if one does have to take care of other matters in life as well and, due to professional experiences, I also think the stuff is usually handled in a really, really tasteless manner that just severely disappoints and annoys me.
I do have to differ here, though, when a game goes about it like for example Trials in Tainted Space I do not feel the same cause the entire premise of the game is humorous, absurd and "over-the-top", I do not expect people creating these sort of games to represent rape in a realistic way, quite the opposite, that would completely go against the premise.
When games (and Devs) take their stuff very serious though I do want them to be way more conscious about what they are trying to present in their game. (This doesn't go at the direction of this games Dev, though, just to be 100% clear, I do not want them to think this is a critique of their work here)
This all btw despite me actually having a preference for rapey stuff (receiving) (in games) as long as it concerns a protagonist I made & not an established character that I am invested in & would not want to live through any sort of trauma like that. So my stance on the matter is really not just based on what I would enjoy personally.
" For me its emblematic of the general lack of consistency in quality that defines the game's low points. " Yeah, though I would say it's more like 'the thing that seems to be kind of a red line that goes through all of the content I've seen so far (when it comes to stuff I wanna critique a little) is the fact that all of my woes stem from a lack of player choice in regards to certain things. '
redemption arc
"I really appreciate that we differ in why we like Kate, I like how her messiness gives her potential and want her to grow by overcoming them and I’m guessing you on the other hand like Kate for who she is and don’t want her compromised. I think this speaks to Kate’s compellingness, don’t you agree? "
Yeah I do agree 100% there, can't think of anything I'd say differently about it. Only thing is I am not yet entirely sure if I like Kate because or despite her flaws, or maybe a bit of both? She just resonates with me. I also will say, though, that I would advice anyone to run as far as they can if they were faced with such a person (as a partner) in real life as soon as that person refuses or fails (more than maybe 1 time) to tackle their addiction with actual therapy. It's extremely unhealthy for both partners & there is neither a "restart" or "reload" button for real life in case things goes sour, which they will usually do.
Would I personally be unwise and throw myself into a harmful relationship like that? I fear I probably would if the emotions are too strong. But the thing I like about fictional stuff is that there we can have happy ends despite unlikely circumstances, and addictions that don't have severe repercussions. And, personally, I want to keep it that way. Life is grim enough, I really don't need that sort of tragedy and drama in a story I read to have a good time & to zone out for a while.
So I am, as I've said before, actually more than grateful that so far there hasn't been any additional drama and angst in the Kate-relationship route.
"I like messy relationships with that overcomes problems with healthy communication so this works well for me, how about you?"
That...depends. I think. Kinda on my mood, the current situation, and sometimes just a figurative coin toss which type of story I wanna read (or write).
Generally I do totally agree, still, a thing I would prefer for Kate & Sarah (as an option) there is if Kate does her best to just show that she is giving it her all to be there for Sarah and to make up for what happened instead of explicitly bringing it up again.
I would like to decide for myself if there are any more feelings of deep-seated hurt left, cause I do think that the feeling of betrayal is not entirely warranted, since personally I think "betrayal" actually requires purpose, you need to do it consciously, otherwise I don't think I would feel betrayed as much as let-down (maybe? My English is definitely reaching it's limits here xD)
redemption arc part II
I struggle to come up with an answer, because on 1 hand I do agree with what you write, but on the other I do not totally agree with how you describe Kate & her role there(?)
And I also do not completely agree with what you make of Chekov's Law there. Let me start with the latter here, it's completely correct that breaking that law almost always takes away A LOT from a story. It becomes incoherent, often enough makes one feel as if entire parts of something were completely superfluous, characters become less convincing and so on. It literally can ruin a narrative. But, on the other hand (and probably you are aware of that, but just didn't go into it in your text) that doesn't mean that everything is a problem that has to be solved. Especially when it comes to character flaws it can also really add to the narrative to explicitly not solve them, but instead have them be in effect and show what consequences that has, or make it a central point of the "happy" end that they did not end up having the severe repercussions one would have expected. As long as that is the result of the stuff the characters in question did. I have a bit of a hard time properly explaining what I have in mind there, so maybe let me try to give an example for what I mean?
In one of the stories I'm working on (and have been working on for a while) character A (the protagonist) ends up in the clutches of character B (loveinterest) who is a bit like Kate, just a lot more unhinged and also just actually malicious. What I have been describing so far is a relationship that isn't exactly healthy but instead pretty abusive, the somewhat redeeming moments not stemming from character B actually even trying to change but instead from the fact character B clearly does have genuine feelings for character A and does manage to hold back a little at first, as to not completely ruin character A, despite really feeling like it would be enjoyable to do so. Also, in their own way, they help character A overcome certain weaknesses and grievances, in a disturbing manner. I am constantly trying to keep a balance between adding a certain level of wholesomeness to something that is also still depicted as morally questionable at best, trying to show that on one hand even really nasty people might have a good side, but also at the same time that love alone simply isn't enough to make up for everything, and that for some people the damage caused to them by a relationship might still be the lesser evil. An important tool there obviously is dark humor to lessen the blow, as I said I am not really a major fan of too much drama and angst.
So Chekov's law, for me, just means it is really important to be consistent with things and to not bring up stuff just for a single scene, but it doesn't mean everything is a problem that needs to be solved (in case of something like Kate's addiction). But it shouldnt be something that is only brought up at the start without ever giving some form of reason/explanation for why it doesn't influence things as much later down the line. It would be enough to bring her habits up again from time to time without it having other major consequences, though, as long as e.g. Kate decides to stick with Sarah when she's being drugged as to not cause further problems.
That doesn't mean I am against your idea, though, I'm just throwing in some alternatives. Admittedly I do think we are getting into territory where our ideas become a bit unrealistic to implement for a Dev that works on their game during their free time & that certainly has a lot of other real life matter to tackle. This game is already bigger than most (per route) VNs that offer meaningful choices, and each and every meaningful choice would create an entirely different path, potentially, and there's always way too many things to consider in regards to possible consequences to fully go into it and leave everything to player choices.
I would already be more than happy if the issue of things being locked behind intimate interactions would be addressed a little, at least at those points were it wouldn't even make a major difference if Sarah didn't allow herself to be used.
Thoughts of a different path
I will comment on that 1 at a later point, I am pretty exhausted right now and then wrote a bit more of an answer than I initially thought, lol.
