RPGM Tower of Trample [v1.18.0.4 + Standalone SC3] [Bo Wei/Koda]

[Sylph Phoenix]

To be honest my takeaway from what he said was that working for Bo absolutely sucks. Imagine Bo going around telling everyone that he's nearly done with 7F and that then you just need to do your part, but what he actually did was a bunch of disjoint sequences and ideas that you have to sew together and fix. Koda obviously has problems of his own but yeah.

Anyways I recently completed my next project and it's a more advanced config menu to go with some of the new stuff. Not a huge thing just something I could do in a few hours to settle a disagreement between Bo and Koda going forward. Bo wants no hints on how far you've progressed submitting to the wardens while Koda (and me) does, etc. Dunno if Koda will have it implemented for the interlude, but idc

View attachment d16bbc95a77c0d0f2c76ba6aff7b9bd2.mp4

 

[GearlessJoe]

Sorry Sylph, you seem like a cool dude and I'm sure you've done a great job so far, but I feel like now that you're behind the curtains of ToT so to speak, you've kinda lost sight of what us common folk see as worthwhile additions to the game. I would be extremely shocked to learn that the average ToT player cares about having each scene "flow well" into the next, or about having configuration options for stuff like mouse support, QTE difficulty and progress info... I feel like most people would rather no development time went into any of those useless features, especially given the awful year for this game's development that 2019 was.

I mean, come on. Only in a triple A game would I expect to be given the option of tweaking QoL stuff like this, not in an extremely niche indie porn game made by two dudes, ffs. I'd expect that kind of game to not even implement the QoL changes in the first place. And these guys should want to avoid being compared to triple A developers and indie teams as much as they can with how astoundingly unprofessional and incompetent they are in some key areas.

The fact that, even at a time when they should feel the most pressed to come out with new content, they still find it in themselves to have arguments about whether to implement any of these s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶a̶r̶y tertiary features should be disheartening to anyone who is passionate about ToT, and a huge red flag for the people who still think these devs might get any better...

 

[Sylph Phoenix]

Sorry Sylph, you seem like a cool dude and I'm sure you've done a great job so far, but I feel like now that you're behind the curtains of ToT so to speak, you've kinda lost sight of what us common folk see as worthwhile additions to the game. I would be extremely shocked to learn that the average ToT player cares about having each scene "flow well" into the next, or about having configuration options for stuff like mouse support, QTE difficulty and progress info... I feel like most people would rather no development time went into any of those useless features, especially given the awful year for this game's development that 2019 was.

I mean, come on. Only in a triple A game would I expect to be given the option of tweaking QoL stuff like this, not in an extremely niche indie porn game made by two dudes, ffs. I'd expect that kind of game to not even implement the QoL changes in the first place. And these guys should want to avoid being compared to triple A developers and indie teams as much as they can with how astoundingly unprofessional and incompetent they are in some key areas.

The fact that, even at a time when they should feel the most pressed to come out with new content, they still find it in themselves to have arguments about whether to implement any of these s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶a̶r̶y tertiary features should be disheartening to anyone who is passionate about ToT.

I think you're misunderstanding the situation a lil bit. I don't actually choose what I work on other than a yes or no to a request. Koda came and asked for this with a list of things he wants it to be able to do, and I said "yeah ok" and spent my afternoon getting it out. I'm never going to touch the config options since the defaults are exactly what I want anyway, so this isn't some exciting addition to me either. But he doesn't ask me for things like H-scenes or plot or really crucial mechanics, and I don't really expect him to. I just do the stuff he can't figure out or stuff he'd like to have but can't justify the time for. So, realistically, no development time was lost since it was only my time getting spent.

 

[GearlessJoe]

I think you're misunderstanding the situation a lil bit. I don't actually choose what I work on other than a yes or no to a request. Koda came and asked for this with a list of things he wants it to be able to do, and I said "yeah ok" and spent my afternoon getting it out. I'm never going to touch the config options since the defaults are exactly what I want anyway, so this isn't some exciting addition to me either. But he doesn't ask me for things like H-scenes or plot or really crucial mechanics, and I don't really expect him to. I just do the stuff he can't figure out or stuff he'd like to have but can't justify the time for. So, realistically, no development time was lost since it was only my time getting spent.

I think you're misunderstanding, maybe because of what I said about you being on the other side of the curtains now. I never implied that you were on the decision-making end (I always said 'they', not 'you'), although funnily enough Koda is since he can choose to waste time doing stuff Bo hasn't asked of him. All I'm saying is that now you seem to be okay with the awful decisions being made.
You're trying to make us feel bad for Koda because of his awful boss, after all, despite the context of him unilaterally deciding that he needs to add "connective tissue" (super vague and more than likely unnecessary) to Bo's scenes, and you agreed with him that adding a progress info toggle (to a configuration menu already bloated with useless QoL tweaks) was a good idea, and even did it for him. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to me that you're just encouraging him to do what you always complain about him doing.

 

[Sylph Phoenix]

I've been criticising him as recently as a few posts ago, like how his expansion of this interlude is a very un-amusing to me. I've relayed a lot of what Koda has said in here which is probably what's giving you the impression that I'm down with all the poor choices, but if you read my commentary again you'll see that I am nervous about all those choices. You misunderstood me on the progress info toggle, I agreed with Koda that having things like "Submission (1 out of 3)" show up is better than being completely clueless the way Bo likes it, not that we need an option. My opinion is that Bo is wrong and we shouldn't have the option at all lol.

The whole point of me doing these requests though is so that Koda isn't doing it. I could say no to doing the menu, but then Bo and Koda might be unable to reach agreement and Koda might go and work on the menu himself. I'm not in their pocket (especially since I'm not getting any of that sweet, sweet Patreon money) and am not 'on their side', I just want the game to get made more quickly so I'm taking things off Koda's plate, even if those things should've never been on it in the first place.

EDIT: Forgot to add, I'm not anymore behind the curtain than I was a few months ago. Only change is I have his permission to relay some stuff in here. I haven't even talked to Bo before, and most of my conversations with Koda are about other porn games or about writing. End result is I'm just a little bit better informed than the Discord people and that's it.

 

[Geretor]

How do I want new content, and it does not appear. The content for 3 minutes, at least 3 minutes, and it does not appear. Anything but worthless news, nothing new is happening. It's a nagging comment because nothing new is happening.
You know what to do? Add a new tag: delaying dominance. I feel like a sad masochist who is already tired of waiting. No news except the link of the most updated content is needed. I need the content itself, which can be felt with your own hands. That's what I want.

 

[Mrinituso]

/snip

B: I was a bit ambiguous; Bo came up with the idea, Koda just discussed it until they were both excited. Either way, the answer is just that they themselves aren't satisfied with the product if it's super simple. It's not good news but if they do simple stuff all the time I'd expect someone like Bo to jump ship. He's a very spontaneous person, believe that.

View attachment 424514
Up until recently he's been making the same silly mistake, but now just needs to start releasing stuff provided it isn't scarce enough that the end result is noticeably worse for new players. If he continues expanding unnecessarily after he finally pushes this shit out then you can bet I'll be reminding him of this conversation lol.

To be honest my takeaway from what he said was that working for Bo absolutely sucks. Imagine Bo going around telling everyone that he's nearly done with 7F and that then you just need to do your part, but what he actually did was a bunch of disjoint sequences and ideas that you have to sew together and fix. Koda obviously has problems of his own but yeah.
/snip

Wow, that's revelatory, thank you Sylph Phoenix

Sylph Phoenix Do you know, though, if they have... a road map?

"Bo came up with the idea, Koda just discussed it until they were both excited."
The image of the both of them cradling this baby of theirs, passing it to each other until they're equally enthused, that's just hilarious.

Bo's still flying like it's one-person plane even though it's a group effort now, and Koda's just gonna be mired in constantly adjusting the lens, especially if he's doing it tactilely.

Spontaneous Bo + Conscientious Koda = Delays

Working on an indie porn game... who'd have thought of work ethics?
You'd think a "the tower" concept would make a reliable framework.

 

[Incognito Guy]

I would be extremely shocked to learn that the average ToT player cares about having each scene "flow well" into the next

Actually I think that might be pretty important generally. Not sure about 7F specifically though since as I could see it's so open world that having scenes just "stumbled upon" might feel more immersive, maybe with some light changes in dialogue depending on main plot factors.

I mean it wouldn't feel right if after "scene 1" you always need to go where "scene 2" is I think, otherwise there wouldn't be any point in having this large floor in the first place. We know so little about 7F though that I might be completely off the mark.

 

[GearlessJoe]

Actually I think that might be pretty important generally. Not sure about 7F specifically though since as I could see it's so open world that having scenes just "stumbled upon" might feel more immersive, maybe with some light changes in dialogue depending on main plot factors.

I mean it wouldn't feel right if after "scene 1" you always need to go where "scene 2" is I think, otherwise there wouldn't be any point in having this large floor in the first place. We know so little about 7F though that I might be completely off the mark.

The thing is no one knows what he means when he talks about having scenes flow well, it's super vague (unless Sylph asked what he meant by it specifically). We all have our own interpretation, I'm just going by what we know Koda does... obsess over meaningless stuff, waste tons of time trying to fix what isn't broken. The fact that Sylph doesn't see it that way and is starting to feel bad for him tells me that he's being biased because of being in contact with him. Koda also said that it's something that he also had to do for 6F, but I've never seen anyone compliment 6F's scenes for "flowing well together/into each other", neither have I seen anyone levy "scenes not flowing well" as criticism for previous content. If it's something Koda has to point out he's doing for you to notice, then more than likely it shouldn't take priority and he should save it for another more opportune moment, as with everything he does, especially when there's a lot more things about the game's writing that should be improved first, like the surface-levelness and one-dimensionality of the characters, which are arguably the whole point of a game like ToT.
Koda is like someone who buys luxury furniture for his home from an expensive catalog despite living in a run-down appartment and having no plans of moving out in the foreseeable future.
And remember, this is me just being charitable to the guy and assuming he has some type of disorder, the alternative would be that he's just a lazy, shameless grifter who's been playing all of us for a while.

 

[Incognito Guy]

I've never seen anyone compliment 6F's scenes for "flowing well together/into each other", neither have I seen anyone levy "scenes not flowing well" as criticism for previous content.

I mean some things go unnoticed when well done, and as you say we have no idea what Koda's meaning specifically.

Don't get me wrong, I still belive most of the stuff are just lies meant to hide his lazyness behind, but as far as flowing one scene into another, that might be important.

Also floors before 6F were so different that maybe Koda's tweak wasn't even needed.

 

[GearlessJoe]

Also floors before 6F were so different that maybe Koda's tweak wasn't even needed.

I didn't think about that, maybe you're right. I just have trouble imagining how Karen's floor would've looked like if it didn't have Koda's "fix", but I'm also not the biggest Karen fan so I haven't replayed 6F much.

 

[Httd1221]

I mean some things go unnoticed when well done, and as you say we have no idea what Koda's meaning specifically.

Don't get me wrong, I still belive most of the stuff are just lies meant to hide his lazyness behind, but as far as flowing one scene into another, that might be important.

Also floors before 6F were so different that maybe Koda's tweak wasn't even needed.
[/QU

I mean some things go unnoticed when well done, and as you say we have no idea what Koda's meaning specifically.

Don't get me wrong, I still belive most of the stuff are just lies meant to hide his lazyness behind, but as far as flowing one scene into another, that might be important.

Also floors before 6F were so different that maybe Koda's tweak wasn't even needed.

So Bo done his part of F7 and ned

To be honest my takeaway from what he said was that working for Bo absolutely sucks. Imagine Bo going around telling everyone that he's nearly done with 7F and that then you just need to do your part, but what he actually did was a bunch of disjoint sequences and ideas that you have to sew together and fix. Koda obviously has problems of his own but yeah.

Anyways I recently completed my next project and it's a more advanced config menu to go with some of the new stuff. Not a huge thing just something I could do in a few hours to settle a disagreement between Bo and Koda going forward. Bo wants no hints on how far you've progressed submitting to the wardens while Koda (and me) does, etc. Dunno if Koda will have it implemented for the interlude, but idc

View attachment 427256

So have Bo done his job in F7 ?

 

[fanboi]

Sylph Phoenix Do you know, though, if they have... a road map?

You'd think a "the tower" concept would make a reliable framework.

I very much doubt it. All that we've heard points to them just doing a fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants process. No wonder there have been so many delays and issues with finishing anything! I'm not saying they need to be more corporate or anything, but yes, having a plan of where you want to go and in what steps (at least generally) would be a huge improvement for them, I guarantee it. They need some sort of project management intervention.

 

[bahamut2195]

We should start betting on when you guys think Floor 7 is gonna be released, like we used to do for the other floors. But instead of days let's bet on months. Anyone up for it? My bet is gonna be August 2020. And a bonus prediction, it won't even be twice as big as Karen's floor, they'll tell us it's because it had to be rewritten/remade a bunch of times or some other bs

I think those days are gone. The community has changed too much. It used to be lighthearted and somewhat tongue-in-cheek talking about delays and whatnot. Now it's resentful, sarcastic and angry.

Most posts now are just users bickering over the devs or people whining about off topic posts and reporting them to the mods. The fun has been drained out of the thread.

 

[Greycrimson]

Now it's resentful, sarcastic and angry.

True. Admittedly I'm part of that too, but it's inevitable when discussion here has to be absolutely strictly on the game and on that topic there's literally nothing to discuss other than delays.
Not advocating we should have complete free reign on the thread to talk about whatever, I understand why the rules exist though I still think they're applied way too strictly. Maybe the community can migrate, that's what I'd prefer at least.

 

[olorex11]

I think those days are gone. The community has changed too much. It used to be lighthearted and somewhat tongue-in-cheek talking about delays and whatnot. Now it's resentful, sarcastic and angry.

Most posts now are just users bickering over the devs or people whining about off topic posts and reporting them to the mods. The fun has been drained out of the thread.

True that, even if we get a piece of information about what's going on from people on discord, I can't help but start thinking about how much of what Koda/Bo said is bullshit and after so many months of lies and deception it has become a patter that keep repeating itself. I just feel bitter and I will keep feeling like that until they fulfill what was promised: SPRING cleaning (6 months ago), 7F (7-8 months ago) and mayyybe WG 1.0 (2 months ago). Sorry if my last 30-40 posts have been about me bitching.

 

[chesire]

They are pretty retarded because they cannot even simply code arts and add dialogues in a single language. Like heh RPG VX ACE is not that hard. And deadline is supposed to be followed and respected not to be taken light of like these mofos are doing

 

[Incognito Guy]

Not advocating we should have complete free reign on the thread to talk about whatever

Hey I'm advocating for that!

As long as ToT remains the main topic, would you rather have an active off-topic community that'll be back discussing the main topic once there's something to discuss about, or a dead one?

Not to twist the knife, but this has to be one of my top10 "I told you so" ever, right bas?

 

[bas]

Hey I'm advocating for that!

As long as ToT remains the main topic, would you rather have an active off-topic community that'll be back discussing the main topic once there's something to discuss about, or a dead one?

Not to twist the knife, but this has to be one of my top10 "I told you so" ever, right bas?

No, it has to be your #1 top you-won't-leave-well-enough-alone-and-just-let-the-disagreement-die.

Seriously, please stop @'ing me trying to rekindle this argument. If you don't like our rules, go start your own forum. With blackjack and hookers.

 

[Incognito Guy]

No, it has to be your #1 top you-won't-leave-well-enough-alone-and-just-let-the-disagreement-die.

Seriously, please stop @'ing me trying to rekindle this argument. If you don't like our rules, go start your own forum. With blackjack and hookers.

Don't worry, I told you I'm not interested in starting all over again. I do get nostalgic sometimes though.

ps: Did I make that forum joke first? Are we getting sentimental bas?