e6mill
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More than admire. My lady used to refer to my pseudo Egyptian pharaoh beard as her handhold.
- Thread starter DevinHesi
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She knows Shelley at least wants to fuck him, and was seemingly fine with her flashing him. I can see her dismissing the situation with something like "Andrew messed me up so bad I dunno what I want so I'm willing to explore this with you two." Laura seems like more of a can of worms.
Eve comes across as a mix of Hana and Julie, at least so far. Shelley is the most Sydney-like of everyone.
DrakoGhoul
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Yep, that's why I like Shelley the most. At least currently. Since Sydney was my favorite in N&T. Followed by Alice. But unlike Sydney, Shelley isn't that far ahead of the others for me. I got to see how the others continue to develop.
So if Kallie paid any attention at all to that comment of Shelley's, she knows that Shelley knows that she and MC are together. So does she really miss the subtext of Shelley's comments to Laura after she comes out of the bathroom? We're generally assuming (myself included) that Kallie doesn't know Laura and MC are fucking,* but after those remarks by Shelley, it seems it would be hard to miss.
Really? I remember Shelley telling Kallie that, were she in Kallie's shoes (i.e., MC having rescued her as he did), she'd want to fuck him. I don't remember her telling Kallie outright that she wants to fuck MC.
But Kallie seems to know pretty well what she wants, and it's MC. She just barely stops herself from saying she loves him, but she does it in a way that makes it completely obvious that's what she's feeling. She hasn't shown any romantic/sexual interest in Laura or Shelley. She may well get there (or just open to a threesome for other reasons), but I haven't seen it from her yet.
I do agree that Kallie's likely to feel that Laura betrayed her, when she inevitably finds out that Laura and MC are fucking. With what we as the players know, I think Shelley deserves at least nearly as much blame as does Laura, but I don't know that Kallie will see it that way. But Kallie would have (at least) two good reasons to be pissed at Shelley: (1) Shelley's
Yeah, but Sydney was actually useful.
Really? I'll grant my opinion of her improved quite a bit once she actually joined the group, but I'm having trouble seeing her in the top half. But then, I'm Team Carol for N&T.
* Laura wants to be more than fuck buddies (as is entirely to be expected in an ILS game; FWB never works), but either doesn't realize it yet, or can't admit it yet. But she's jealous that MC's with Kallie too (and who knows what she'll do when she finds out about Shelley). Yes, she's concerned--maybe even mostly concerned--about MC taking advantage of Kallie, but she's also upset about him being with anyone else. Considering the situation, she thinks about her trust issues, which wouldn't be relevant if she were just blowing off some steam with MC. She's mollified when she realizes that things started with Kallie after she'd been pushing him away--again, only relevant if she's more into him than she realizes or admits. These things only matter if she'd expected him to be exclusive with her.
** Kallie hasn't talked with Shelley about this, but Shelley's intuition in this regard is very good; we haven't seen that one way or the other with Laura. So Laura knows that Kallie likes MC, and that she says she can't say anything more definite in their chaotic circumstances--whether she sees beyond that, we don't know. Shelley knows Kallie's in love with MC. And that isn't the only instance; Shelley's the only one who's figured out MC's having sex with anyone else, and not only that, when he is. And while I normally wouldn't consider that as indicating any real insight or intuition under their circumstances (there isn't a whole lot of privacy anywhere they've been), it's more than either of the others has done.
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Warsteel
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This might have merit if the MC didn't have mainly just thin stubble as the game begins. He may not keep it smooth but he clearly doesn't want to caveman out. I'd think as they ran into supplies he could spare five minutes and clean up the mess.
Mostly the beard and long hair is how the dev makes his protagonist as faceless as possible.
Walter Victor
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The MC doesn't take time out to eat or sleep properly. He's not going to take time for personal grooming.
Maybe after Eve becomes established in the group, the MC can make time for all of those things. We'll have to see.
Well, you have my answer from the N&T thread, which was based on playing through a chapter of this. We've now finished Chapter 12.
pitao
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- May 18, 2023
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Just a wild guess because not every chapter is exactly the same size and is roughly 1 hour read per chapter times 12 chapters, around 12 hours, but I would say you will stick more than the 12 hours of gameplay, I take my time so probably was around 18 hours but I played update by update since the beginning of development.
Finally made it through 0.12. And I'll have other thoughts on other issues, but first, the clusterfuck that was the visit to Eve:
In short, I don't know that there was a "right answer" here. It was a shitty thing for Laura to do (especially, as everyone here has said, dragging Kallie into it), but she was right that there was no way MC was going to let them go without him, and that standing outside in the fog would be harmful to him. Everyone agreed that having Laura go talk to Eve was a good idea. Laura's right that MC doesn't need to be just standing around in the fog. MC's right that it's dangerous out there. You have to make the less-bad of two shitty choices,* and while I'm not sure "go without MC" was the less-bad choice, I'm not sure it wasn't, either.
But man, we're really pulling on the "betrayal" piece here, aren't we? Laura knows MC at least has a soft spot for Kallie, and deliberately plays on it: "if you say you're going anyway, he won't let you go alone." Then, once we're in the house shopping for clothes, we get touching dialogue of MC getting to know Kallie better, assuming (for the first time for either of them, IIRC) a future relationship between them. Although not nearly as bad, it reminds me of the chapter in MBML where Emma's mother dies--you know (well enough--even without spoilers from reading this thread, it's obvious that the best case resolution is that this is going to blow up) where this is going, you can't do anything to stop it, and you just have to watch it play out. And for her part, Kallie says she won't lie, and she doesn't, but she's doing her damnedest to distract him. And for all the talk here about emotional damage to Kallie from this, MC rightly feels betrayed here. It's going to be hard to get past the suspicion that at least everything she was doing that day was just trying to buy time.
But Shelley put her finger on it, and it seems like MC actually listened to her. Maybe (even leaving Eve aside) this will lead to their behaving more like actual adults, especially MC and Laura.
* Yes, I'm indulging in what's likely a false dilemma. Perhaps if they'd spent some time brainstorming, they'd have thought of an option where MC has a "safe" place to wait it out while Laura and Shelley talk with Eve. This still has him out in the fog for the walk there and back, but it at least reduces his exposure. But as far as we're shown, going to see Eve is a given, and the only question is "go with MC" or "go without MC."
In short, I don't know that there was a "right answer" here. It was a shitty thing for Laura to do (especially, as everyone here has said, dragging Kallie into it), but she was right that there was no way MC was going to let them go without him, and that standing outside in the fog would be harmful to him. Everyone agreed that having Laura go talk to Eve was a good idea. Laura's right that MC doesn't need to be just standing around in the fog. MC's right that it's dangerous out there. You have to make the less-bad of two shitty choices,* and while I'm not sure "go without MC" was the less-bad choice, I'm not sure it wasn't, either.
But man, we're really pulling on the "betrayal" piece here, aren't we? Laura knows MC at least has a soft spot for Kallie, and deliberately plays on it: "if you say you're going anyway, he won't let you go alone." Then, once we're in the house shopping for clothes, we get touching dialogue of MC getting to know Kallie better, assuming (for the first time for either of them, IIRC) a future relationship between them. Although not nearly as bad, it reminds me of the chapter in MBML where Emma's mother dies--you know (well enough--even without spoilers from reading this thread, it's obvious that the best case resolution is that this is going to blow up) where this is going, you can't do anything to stop it, and you just have to watch it play out. And for her part, Kallie says she won't lie, and she doesn't, but she's doing her damnedest to distract him. And for all the talk here about emotional damage to Kallie from this, MC rightly feels betrayed here. It's going to be hard to get past the suspicion that at least everything she was doing that day was just trying to buy time.
But Shelley put her finger on it, and it seems like MC actually listened to her. Maybe (even leaving Eve aside) this will lead to their behaving more like actual adults, especially MC and Laura.
* Yes, I'm indulging in what's likely a false dilemma. Perhaps if they'd spent some time brainstorming, they'd have thought of an option where MC has a "safe" place to wait it out while Laura and Shelley talk with Eve. This still has him out in the fog for the walk there and back, but it at least reduces his exposure. But as far as we're shown, going to see Eve is a given, and the only question is "go with MC" or "go without MC."
Raziel_8
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Well, i think they could have tried a bit harder to convince the MC that they are capable to go there alone and that the MC needs to learn to trust them of doing things, maybe leading to a heated argument.
The MC's idea of waiting outside in the fog is beyond stupid thought, no questions there.
That being said, couldn't have the MC just waited in the front room (where they meet Eve first), while the others talk in the garage ? So the girls can talk with Eve alone and the MC doesn't stand in the fog like a moron.
They could have, but do you think they would have succeeded? Again, this is the guy whose response to "you need to stop shorting yourself food" is "I need to do a better job of hiding the fact that I'm not eating."
Hence my acknowledgement of the false dichotomy. The thought is that Eve will respond better to the ladies if MC isn't around--everyone agrees on that, incorrect as it was. But still, if they'd actually talked through the issue like adults, they might have come up with alternatives.
Raziel_8
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For the MC not to come, unlikely, thought it would have made the decision from Laura and the girls more understandable, mind you, the MC is anything but blameless.
But i think there needs to be more conflict about the MC's sacrificial behavior, so there's that.
And as you said, i think the whole situation could have been solved if they just talked it out like adults.
I'm not committed to there being more conflict as such, but he needs to realize it's counterproductive. Not only for his own well-being--that much is obvious, even to him--but also to the well-being of everyone around him. I'm hopeful that Shelley's talk with him helps in that regard, but I don't think he's going to turn it off. And he shouldn't, at least not entirely--it's a good and admirable quality. But he needs to realize that he can't help them if he's dead.
And seeing the decisions they make, if he was dead, they'd truly be fucked. Well, not in the way they'd want to be, but in the way they wouldn't.
MC makes his share of bad decisions too--it's just that, right now, Laura's are more bad, more often. Though if MC were dead, but Eve joined them (and was willing to stay), they might be OK.
Walter Victor
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Eve's decision was to stay alone in a garage with a car that wouldn't run without a missing part. Was she hoping to grow one? Sooner or later she would have run out of food and would have had to begin moving away. Logically, it would have been better for her to take as much of the food she could fit into a pack and started on foot a lot sooner.
It is only dumb luck that the MC has come along with a solution for her dilemma.
Fair, and maybe that's the difference between strategic and tactical decision-making. Eve's tactical decision-making seems pretty good--she's well-equipped, well-prepared, and pretty well able to take care of herself. If she's with the group, and she/they have a clear goal, odds are she's going to be a pretty strong asset in reaching that goal.
And for that matter, her big-picture awareness isn't bad. She recognizes the, at least possibility if not likelihood, that the Cavalry isn't coming to save the day; she/they is/are on her/their own to get out of this situation.
So, yes, why stay in the garage? Both in terms of "why not set out on foot since her car won't work," and "why stay at the garage, rather than in the house that you know is there, know is safe, and know has working utilities"? She could have had hot meals and showers for the past month. Instead, she stays at the garage, and sends the people she wants to get rid of into a much more comfortable situation than she herself is living in.