VN Ren'Py Trouble iN The aRena [Ep.7] [Sir Gary Bummer]

[WonderDemonBra]

Lol, "one of those people" sounds terribly judgmental.

I fail to see the problem in this.
But I said it jokingly, even if it's no very obvious in a written comment.

When anyone says main character outside of a creative writing classroom, they're referring to the viewpoint character (which in a video game would be the playable character). As in, I assumed you meant you were playing the game from the perspective of Ruru, which is something others have said they do before.

If you're trying to analyze this story through a dramaturgical lense, then you're putting more order and structure on to it than I have. From that perspective one could think of Ruru as the story's protagonist, I suppose. Or someone else may argue for antagonist. I never much cared for the labels and formulas when writing though, I'm more of a make it up as I go kinda writer.

True, but I'm tired of everyone on this site to constantly mix the words.
Albert Camus said that naming things wrong is adding misfortune to the world.
My personal "favorite" still is people using art, instead of graphics.

If you're trying to analyze this story through a dramaturgical lense, then you're putting more order and structure on to it than I have. From that perspective one could think of Ruru as the story's protagonist, I suppose. Or someone else may argue for antagonist. I never much cared for the labels and formulas when writing though, I'm more of a make it up as I go kinda writer.

I would say the main character, as it's unclear for now if and why she helps the player.
But from what I see, she's definitely the center of the story. But I don't know the rest of the story, so who am I to decreet that ?

But I'm surprised you said you didn't put much work on the structure of the story.
Are you a writer outside of this ? Do you simply do things without much thoughts because you're used to it ?

 

[Axel F]

There's some conflict in the writing of the mc's personality, he's kind of a loser, but not really (everyone seems to respect him for some weird reason), also he's the hero of the story, but not really. Or maybe i'm reading to much into it and that's how ntr games are supposed to be.
All in all i can't say that i don't like the game, i enjoy the story.

 

[WonderDemonBra]

There's some conflict in the writing of the mc's personality, he's kind of a loser, but not really (everyone seems to respect him for some weird reason), also he's the hero of the story, but not really. Or maybe i'm reading to much into it and that's how ntr games are supposed to be.
All in all i can't say that i don't like the game, i enjoy the story.

I'd say it's called having nuanced characters. But it's not very frequent on this site

 

[Raferu]

There's some conflict in the writing of the mc's personality, he's kind of a loser, but not really (everyone seems to respect him for some weird reason), also he's the hero of the story, but not really. Or maybe i'm reading to much into it and that's how ntr games are supposed to be.
All in all i can't say that i don't like the game, i enjoy the story.

Well, he's one of the most powerful warlocks of the land, so I think some respect is to be expected.

 

[Sir Gary Bummer]

I fail to see the problem in this.
But I said it jokingly, even if it's no very obvious in a written comment.

I found it put in an accusatory tone, and did not see any humor coming through. Based on the way you communicate online, I assume you commonly put people in a position where they feel a need to defend themselves, whether you mean to or not. But that's just my reading of it, someone else may feel different.

True, but I'm tired of everyone on this site to constantly mix the words.
Albert Camus said that naming things wrong is adding misfortune to the world.
My personal "favorite" still is people using art, instead of graphics.

I would say that one has to be mindful of context and such. Then I remember that I get irrationally upset whenever anyone uses tactics and strategy interchangeably... I actually got a little mad just imagining it.

I would say the main character, as it's unclear for now if and why she helps the player.
But from what I see, she's definitely the center of the story. But I don't know the rest of the story, so who am I to decreet that ?

But I'm surprised you said you didn't put much work on the structure of the story.
Are you a writer outside of this ? Do you simply do things without much thoughts because you're used to it ?

Oh, she's for sure the center of the story, no doubt about that.

Not using pre-existing structures ≠ doing things without putting much thought into them.
But yeah, my brain has always rejected structure. Did get diagnosed with inattentive ADHD this year, so that may have something to do with it.
This is the first work of anything I've shared with anyone really, though I've spent time writing and learning stuff on my own before starting to make the game.

There's some conflict in the writing of the mc's personality, he's kind of a loser, but not really (everyone seems to respect him for some weird reason), also he's the hero of the story, but not really. Or maybe i'm reading to much into it and that's how ntr games are supposed to be.
All in all i can't say that i don't like the game, i enjoy the story.

He's meant to be a parody of certain isekai MC tropes. They're quite often wimpy wankers, and yet have people throwing themselves over each other to serve them. Of course, just because it's on purpose doesn't mean that you have to like that part of the story.

And for sure it's also a bit of an NTR staple to have a wimpy MC, but I don't overly like having them be too much of a doormat. I wanted him to be a bit more arrogant, less likeable, that way it doesn't feel like you're kicking a cute puppy when he gets NTRed, instead it's more like you're kicking your neighbors annoying chihuahua. Entirely deserved.

 

[WonderDemonBra]

I found it put in an accusatory tone, and did not see any humor coming through. Based on the way you communicate online, I assume you commonly put people in a position where they feel a need to defend themselves, whether you mean to or not. But that's just my reading of it, someone else may feel different.

I hesitated a while, wondering if and how I wanted to answer to that.

No, I don't. It's true that I like to tickle a bit when I speak to people, but there is never any malice behind that. People who know me know that I have a lot of humor, especially self-mockery. But we don't know each-other.
But there is one thing that I didn't took into consideration, and I admit that it was a mistake : you are now a public figure. And you probably have to regularly deal with stupid critics, mad fanboys, and maybe even insults. I haven't read every comments here, but I remember having seen a few that made me roll my eyes.
And when you see a comment now you probably ask yourself "jeez, what is it going to be this time ?". So in this given context, it should have been obvious to me that you were unlikely to take my remarks lightly.
So, peace man. I really like your work. And I don't expect you to justify anything.

Here is just one think I would like to add, because I feel that you are a bright person who can think outside of forced propaganda : making a judgment is not a bad thing. Judging and despising are not the same.
Saying that shit is shit is not the problem. The person who brought shit on the table is the problem. But the person who said "this is shit, we should get rid of it" is not. Judging things is not bad by itself.
It's probably one of the biggest lies that is constantly repeated in our time.

I would say that one has to be mindful of context and such. Then I remember that I get irrationally upset whenever anyone uses tactics and strategy interchangeably... I actually got a little mad just imagining it.

Oh, that's a good one. I'm not sensitive to it, but it is very annoying to see people who pretend that they know this stuff mixing them. On the other hand, it helps to see instantly whether someone knows what they are talking about or not

Oh, she's for sure the center of the story, no doubt about that.

Not using pre-existing structures ≠ doing things without putting much thought into them.
But yeah, my brain has always rejected structure. Did get diagnosed with inattentive ADHD this year, so that may have something to do with it.
This is the first work of anything I've shared with anyone really, though I've spent time writing and learning stuff on my own before starting to make the game.

Ah, I understand better now. I didn't want to imply that you used pre-existing structures.
I found it hard to believe that a story so coherent was written on the run. But we weren't talking about the same thing.

Do you have any books that you could recommend me on writing ?
I've personally read 2 from Orson Scott Card : "Characters and viewpoints", and "How to write SF and fantasy".
I can't recommend them enough, but you probably master a lot of their content already.

 

[abirvg]

Didn't really intend for her to be, but a lot of people do seem to prefer that interpretation. I can definitely see why.

Nop, princess is clearly the main character.
My favorite character = main character. Naturally.

If you're trying to analyze this story through a dramaturgical lense [...]

From a dramaturgical lens, of course it's Donkey who's the main character.
Cos he made me laugh the most. Obviously.

So no matter how you look at it, Ruru visibly can't be an MC. By definition.
She's just a maid, after all. Evidently.

 

[Sir Gary Bummer]

No, I don't. It's true that I like to tickle a bit when I speak to people, but there is never any malice behind that. People who know me know that I have a lot of humor, especially self-mockery. But we don't know each-other.
But there is one thing that I didn't took into consideration, and I admit that it was a mistake : you are now a public figure. And you probably have to regularly deal with stupid critics, mad fanboys, and maybe even insults. I haven't read every comments here, but I remember having seen a few that made me roll my eyes.
And when you see a comment now you probably ask yourself "jeez, what is it going to be this time ?". So in this given context, it should have been obvious to me that you were unlikely to take my remarks lightly.
So, peace man. I really like your work. And I don't expect you to justify anything.

Whether there's malice or not behind something is, I would say, secondary to how the average person might interpret it. But it was more meant as a "think about how you express yourself over text with strangers on a forum" than any implication on how you act in real life or with friends. That said, it was something I said based entirely on two comments, so I make no claim of knowing better than you.
In retrospect I can see how your initial comment can be read in a very different tone, but yeah, tone is very tricky in pure text form.

I wouldn't say there's been too many stupid/annoying comments, to be completely honest, but they certainly happen. And it really only takes a few to make the monkey brain feel like your under attack, so I would agree that it's a factor.

And perhaps I'm especially prickly when it comes to stuff like this because I'm just about to quit a creative writing course due to being way too stressed out by doing that simultaneously with making this game. I managed two semesters, but that second one ran me ragged, and I'm immediately feeling that same strain just a month into this third one.

Anyway, it's all good, cheers.

Ah, I understand better now. I didn't want to imply that you used pre-existing structures.
I found it hard to believe that a story so coherent was written on the run. But we weren't talking about the same thing.

I mean, a lot of it is written on the run. It started with a general idea of a cast of characters and the dynamics between them, but I didn't really have much of a plot or an ending in mind. A lot of stuff I've made up later down the line, but I've always based those things on what I've already written.
Essentially I've always dealt with the hand that past me gave, without retconning or ignoring anything. I think that gives an illusion of things being more planned than they really are/were.

Do you have any books that you could recommend me on writing ?
I've personally read 2 from Orson Scott Card : "Characters and viewpoints", and "How to write SF and fantasy".
I can't recommend them enough, but you probably master a lot of their content already.

I've read On Writing by Stephen King, it's very good. Though I'm sure you're already aware of that one, pretty sure it's the most well known book on writing in existence. And I don't think it'll necessarily hold many new things for anyone that's already read books on writing. It is, however, an easy and entertaining read.

Somewhat less known is The Elements of Eloquence by Mark Forsyth. It's not so much about writing as a whole, but rather a compilation of rhetorical techniques and how to use them. Real fancy stuff, and also very entertaining to read.

Steering the Craft by Ursula K. le Guin is on my radar as something to read as well. I've heard it highly recommended by... I can't for the life of me remember, but I think it was one author or another.

 

[WonderDemonBra]

I've read On Writing by Stephen King, it's very good. Though I'm sure you're already aware of that one, pretty sure it's the most well known book on writing in existence. And I don't think it'll necessarily hold many new things for anyone that's already read books on writing. It is, however, an easy and entertaining read.

A friend recommended S.King to me as well, but I still haven't read it. It's on my list.
Haven't heard about the two other ones, but thanks. I will add them too.

I mean, a lot of it is written on the run. It started with a general idea of a cast of characters and the dynamics between them, but I didn't really have much of a plot or an ending in mind. A lot of stuff I've made up later down the line, but I've always based those things on what I've already written.
Essentially I've always dealt with the hand that past me gave, without retconning or ignoring anything. I think that gives an illusion of things being more planned than they really are/were.

Well I'll be damned, I wouldn't have imagined that. Then you're very good at writing on the go, congratulations !

And perhaps I'm especially prickly when it comes to stuff like this because I'm just about to quit a creative writing course due to being way too stressed out by doing that simultaneously with making this game. I managed two semesters, but that second one ran me ragged, and I'm immediately feeling that same strain just a month into this third one.

Do they know the nature of your current work ? I can imagine it can be very stressful if they don't.
I had the problem with my friends and family. I was half telling people what I was doing, without saying much. Part of me wanted to talk about my work, and the other to keep it a secret. It wasn't healthy at all.
I finally told them, but without giving them any details, and asked them not to look for information. Most took it surprisingly well, but I have great friends.

It's a shame if you can't continue, but I personally trust my guts on such matters.
You probably know inside of you what is best to do.

 

[Sir Gary Bummer]

Do they know the nature of your current work ? I can imagine it can be very stressful if they don't.
I had the problem with my friends and family. I was half telling people what I was doing, without saying much. Part of me wanted to talk about my work, and the other to keep it a secret. It wasn't healthy at all.
I finally told them, but without giving them any details, and asked them not to look for information. Most took it surprisingly well, but I have great friends.

It's a shame if you can't continue, but I personally trust my guts on such matters.
You probably know inside of you what is best to do.

Nah, I keep it to myself, if anyone asks I just say I'm writing a story on the web. I don't really have any part in me that wants to discuss this game with anyone I know IRL, so I don't find that part too bad.

But I've been taking more note of mental stresses in general due to some shit a family member is going through, so I've already made the decision. It's not really a big deal, it's been nice for learning and I wasn't looking for any more than that. Already have one useless degree, no point getting another.

 

[WonderDemonBra]

Nah, I keep it to myself, if anyone asks I just say I'm writing a story on the web. I don't really have any part in me that wants to discuss this game with anyone I know IRL, so I don't find that part too bad.

But I've been taking more note of mental stresses in general due to some shit a family member is going through, so I've already made the decision. It's not really a big deal, it's been nice for learning and I wasn't looking for any more than that. Already have one useless degree, no point getting another.

Understandable.
Maybe you can join another one later if you feel like it ? Even without a diploma at the end.

I hope you will manage all this, between your work, family and your recent diagnosis, it mustn't be easy every day.

PS : I just ordered S.King's.

 

[Sir Gary Bummer]

Understandable.
Maybe you can join another one later if you feel like it ? Even without a diploma at the end.

I hope you will manage all this, between your work, family and your recent diagnosis, it mustn't be easy every day.

PS : I just ordered S.King's.

Maybe I'll take another course at some point, dunno, not really something I'm thinking about.

Yeah, I'll manage. Things were pretty chill during summer, and I've felt significantly less stressed since the moment I took the decision to not bother with uni anymore.

Hope you enjoy the book, cheers!

 

[CrazyRabbit]

Color me suprised ; I gave the game a try without much hope (only interested in the atypical dynamic with Ruru and humor) and I was wrong.

This game is a riot, every character is funny and likable (Saranhil and her outbursts of cry/anger and her awful nicknaming, Taranhil and her newly pun torture, even Donkey ffs).
The writing is very good, wasn't expecting this level of quality, especially the serious moments : for example the moment with Donkey implying he has no friends and everyone being sad about it.
Very intrigued by Ruru and her story, I like the fact she's co-MC at that point.

I tip my hat, Sir Gary Bummer good sir ; a very good game and can't wait for more chapters.

 

[Sir Gary Bummer]

Color me suprised ; I gave the game a try without much hope (only interested in the atypical dynamic with Ruru and humor) and I was wrong.

This game is a riot, every character is funny and likable (Saranhil and her outbursts of cry/anger and her awful nicknaming, Taranhil and her newly pun torture, even Donkey ffs).
The writing is very good, wasn't expecting this level of quality, especially the serious moments : for example the moment with Donkey implying he has no friends and everyone being sad about it.
Very intrigued by Ruru and her story, I like the fact she's co-MC at that point.

I tip my hat, Sir Gary Bummer good sir ; a very good game and can't wait for more chapters.

Thanks for the praise!

Yeah, I think it's important to try and let serious moments not be entirely undercut by poorly timed humor. I think an entire generation of new writers owe that teaching to the Marvel movies, which has some horrendous examples.

Cheers!

 

[xcalibar4]

Color me suprised ; I gave the game a try without much hope (only interested in the atypical dynamic with Ruru and humor) and I was wrong.

This game is a riot, every character is funny and likable (Saranhil and her outbursts of cry/anger and her awful nicknaming, Taranhil and her newly pun torture, even Donkey ffs).
The writing is very good, wasn't expecting this level of quality, especially the serious moments : for example the moment with Donkey implying he has no friends and everyone being sad about it.
Very intrigued by Ruru and her story, I like the fact she's co-MC at that point.

I tip my hat, Sir Gary Bummer good sir ; a very good game and can't wait for more chapters.

It's the only NTR based Corruption game that I'm looking forward to play with each chapters released. I suggest it everywhere every chance I get.

 

[xcalibar4]

Thanks for the praise!

Yeah, I think it's important to try and let serious moments not be entirely undercut by poorly timed humor. I think an entire generation of new writers owe that teaching to the Marvel movies, which has some horrendous examples.

Cheers!

Hey, I like new Marvel movies cause I can watch the whole movies in just 10min.

 

[Sir Gary Bummer]

Hey, I like new Marvel movies cause I can watch the whole movies in just 10min.

The speeding up method, eh? That's exactly how I used to watch every lecture at university. Some lecturers actually talk at a normal pace when you set the video to 2x speed.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

Hey, I like new Marvel movies cause I can watch the whole movies in just 10min.

And if you skip the "jokes", the setups for the sequels and poor multiverse building and only keep the scenes with proper CGI and/or decent acting, you can watch the whole movie before even sitting down with your snacks.

 

[Kdurham173]

There a no games like this! Absolutely love it. Wish there was similar games to buy time between updates

 

[Icarus Media]

But yeah, my brain has always rejected structure. Did get diagnosed with inattentive ADHD this year, so that may have something to do with it.

Ooh look! A butterfly!