VN Ren'Py Turning the Page [v0.26.0 Patreon] [Azienda]

[mzer0]

there's dozen of titles proving you wrong.

...Then you've only read 'dozens'.

Japanese NTR stories that end with the FMC becoming a cumdump, getting divorced, or just abandoned (implied or otherwise) are not uncommon. Even the 'Bull' gets fucked over sometimes. However, the same can't be said of 'Western' NTR.

You asked for one? Here. A guy on reddit made multiple threads dedicated to NTR stories with non-standard endings, proving that the genre is at least capable of diversity, unlike Western Cuckoldry. Take your pick:

You must be registered to see the links

(Though, IMO, his definition of NTR is pretty broad, (actually, very broad) but he still has a few good ones.)

EDIT:
And to be clear, I'm not trying to say that the MC getting BTFO'd isn't a big part of Japanese NTR; you should expect it to happen and to happen often. What I'm saying is that, from what I've read of Japanese NTR, the genre isn't limited to that. It can do other things sometimes and still be NTR. Western Cuckoldry, other hand, is limited to that.

The two of them are similar to each other - very similar - but they are not the same.

 

[DurumMurud]

When you are reading a novel like this, when you are putting time and effort into understanding the author's view on a dark twisted story, you are also evaluating what type of person the author actually is.

The moment you realise the female character has a THICK plot armor, then you realise the author is simping for the woman, then you start to view him as a pathetic rat instead of a free person willing to face the dark sides of life, you loose respect.

I liked this novel because its kinda crude, dark, twisted in contrast with the naive cartoon graphics. But if the author reveals himself as a simp, then I'm loosing all interest.

It's my problem with other NTRs, like watching my wife (sadly discontinued I believe) or a couple's duet, is when I realise the author hard simps for the woman. I loose respect and interest when I get to that conclusion, so I'm guessing I'm more fine tuned to the japanese raw NTR than the western simp model.

 

[mzer0]

When you are reading a novel like this, when you are putting time and effort into understanding the author's view on a dark twisted story, you are also evaluating what type of person the author actually is.

The moment you realise the female character has a THICK plot armor, then you realise the author is simping for the woman, then you start to view him as a pathetic rat instead of a free person willing to face the dark sides of life, you loose respect.

I liked this novel because its kinda crude, dark, twisted in contrast with the naive cartoon graphics. But if the author reveals himself as a simp, then I'm loosing all interest.

It's my problem with other NTRs, like watching my wife (sadly discontinued I believe) or a couple's duet, is when I realise the author hard simps for the woman. I loose respect and interest when I get to that conclusion, so I'm guessing I'm more fine tuned to the japanese raw NTR than the western simp model.

No need to attack the author for the way they enjoy the kink, dude...

That's literally what I've been arguing against all this time; people telling me that I don't like NTR because sometimes I like it when the MC pulls out a win.

Don't become the thing you hate.

 

[JevilVerum]

When you are reading a novel like this, when you are putting time and effort into understanding the author's view on a dark twisted story, you are also evaluating what type of person the author actually is.

The moment you realise the female character has a THICK plot armor, then you realise the author is simping for the woman, then you start to view him as a pathetic rat instead of a free person willing to face the dark sides of life, you loose respect.

I liked this novel because its kinda crude, dark, twisted in contrast with the naive cartoon graphics. But if the author reveals himself as a simp, then I'm loosing all interest.

It's my problem with other NTRs, like watching my wife (sadly discontinued I believe) or a couple's duet, is when I realise the author hard simps for the woman. I loose respect and interest when I get to that conclusion, so I'm guessing I'm more fine tuned to the japanese raw NTR than the western simp model.

To even remotely think you can figure out what kind of person an author is, based on what they write, is basically madness. What an author writes ≠ what an author think/is. Unless you read, outside of the work itself, a comment by the author that confirms or doesn't confirm a take/ideology regarding what they wrote about.

 

[DurumMurud]

No need to attack the author for the way they enjoy the kink, dude...

That's literally what I've been arguing against all this time; people telling me that I don't like NTR because sometimes I like it when the MC pulls out a win.

Don't become the thing you hate.

So we can read a dark twisted novel facing harsh truths of life.
We can gauge characters motivs and intentions.
We can speculate about dark endings.

BUT, dont you dare to understand the authors mind and express harsh truths about the consequences of your writting, and later express them in a board designed for its discussion. This should be a lovely place where we all hug trees while talking about someone fucking others lifes with pease and love.

Man, kinda inconsistent. The truth is the truth, if the author simps, I loose respect and interest.

 

[DurumMurud]

To even remotely think you can figure out what kind of person an author is, based on what they write, is basically madness. What an author writes ≠ what an author think/is. Unless you read, outside of the work itself, a comment by the author that confirms or doesn't confirm a take/ideology regarding what they wrote about.

This is wrong, period. You can only write what is in your head, that exists INSIDE OF YOU. You cannot write what is not in your head. Your writting is a way deeper reflection of who you are than you are willing to admit.

The thought that you have somekind of magic capacity to create out of nothing something unrelated to you, is a reflection of somekind of resistance accepting your inner dark side, your defects, and your traumas. Your stories are an oniric representation of your thoughts. They are YOU, deep inside. That is were big respect from artists come from, no matter if they are singers, writters or architects.

 

[JevilVerum]

This is wrong, period. You can only write what is in your head, that exists INSIDE OF YOU. You cannot write what is not in your head. Your writting is a way deeper reflection of who you are than you are willing to admit.

The thought that you have somekind of magic capacity to create out of nothing something unrelated to you, is a reflection of somekind of resistance accepting your inner dark side, your defects, and your traumas. Your stories are an oniric representation of your thoughts. They are YOU, deep inside. That is were big respect from artists come from, no matter if they are singers, writters or architects.

So when two enemies with opposing ideologies/motivations are portrayed in a book, you think the book needed two writers, one for each character? Or maybe the author can describe different points of view and come up with different characters?

Anyway, this discussion doesn't even make sense when talking about netorare games. The genre itself is rather simple, and the goal of netorare VNs like this one or APBLU or many others is to make people who like that genre masturbate. End of the story. Doing all this extra analysis about authors doesn't even make sense. You could basically insult every Japanese netorare story that way.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

In Western Cuckoldry, the woman is effectively the protagonist of a cheating Shoujo manga where she get to have the unattainable bad boy while her cucked husband/boyfriend is just a side character. She and the 'Bull' are safe from any negative consequences; the 'cuck' is the only one who isn't.

Is western cuckoldry something different to the cuckolding fetish?

 

[mzer0]

Is western cuckoldry something different to the cuckolding fetish?

?

I'm sorry. That question is odd to me.

'Is western cuckoldry something different to the cuckolding fetish?'
No. They're the same thing.

However, if you were to ask: 'Is Japanese Netorare something different to the cuckolding fetish?'

Then my answer would be yes. Yes, it is.

There is a lot of overlap between Western Cuckoldry and Japanese Netorare, but they have one very significant difference:

- Cuckolding as a fetish involves a man consensually sharing his wife or girlfriend with another man sexually. He consents to the humiliation that often follows because he gets off on it.

- On the other hand, Netorare as a fetish involves a lover being permanently stolen and it is (almost) NEVER consensual. (The humiliation is optional as evidenced by all the NTR stories where the husband/boyfriend remains blissfully unaware that his wife/girlfriend is cheating on him.)

Cuckolding stories are about couples agreeing to engage in sexual exploration within the confines of their relationship. Netorare stories are about seduction, infidelity, and betrayal.

Western Cuckoldry actually has more in common with Japanese Netorase than it does with Netorare.

 

[Zarkhy]

Western Cuckoldry actually has more in common with Japanese Netorase than it does with Netorare.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Netorase is for the weak.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

- Cuckolding as a fetish involves a man consensually sharing his wife or girlfriend with another man sexually. He consents to the humiliation that often follows because he gets off on it.

- On the other hand, Netorare as a fetish involves a lover being permanently stolen and it is (almost) NEVER consensual. (The humiliation is optional as evidenced by all the NTR stories where the husband/boyfriend remains blissfully unaware that his wife/girlfriend is cheating on him.)

Cuckolding in practice is supposed to build upon the love couples have for each other . I'm sure it can lead to unwanted ruin, but the intent is a mutually beneficial experience and most often it's initiated by the cuck to satisfy their fantasies.

NTR involves the destruction of loving bonds against the wishes of the person being cucked, in this sense they are a victim and it's mainly a fetish for a viewer rather than a protagonist.

A lot of NTR stories are structured around satisfying changing desires of the fmc in direct opposition to the needs of the mc, which naturally extends into endings that favor her at the expense of him. Obviously resolutions aren't limited to this, but western cuckoldry doesn't have much to do with the frequency of those types of endings and any growing frustration people might feel towards them. Don't really understand how it's a cuckoldry vs ntr thing.

 

[mzer0]

western cuckoldry doesn't have much to do with the frequency of those types of endings and any growing frustration people might feel towards them.

Never said it did...

Don't really understand how it's a cuckoldry vs ntr thing.

Putting it simply:

- People who prefer Western 'humiliation based' cuckoldry have an preference for seeing the MC suffer (Meaning only suffer. No revenge. No moving on to something better. Just misery from start to finish).

- The preference is so strong that they criticize people who don't really need the MC to suffer. (Hoping for him to fight back/wanting things to go badly for the FMC. Both of which would be acceptable in Japanese NTR but not in Western Cuckoldry.)

- They go so far as to claim that NTR where the MC doesn't suffer isn't really NTR. Effectively confusing their Western humiliation fetish with Japanese Netorare which, as a whole, is more than just fetishized humiliation.

 

[jaybae01]

I'm gonna say the thing again. You ready? Here it comes...

It's a 'Western Cuckoldry vs Japanese NTR' thing.

See, in both Western Cuckoldry and Japanese NTR, the guy usually gets the short end of the stick when the story is all said and done. However, while the cheating woman also tends to get a 'bad end' in Japanese NTR (reduced to being a cumdump and/or abandoned), in Western Cuckoldry, she always comes out smelling like roses.

In Western Cuckoldry, the woman is effectively the protagonist of a cheating Shoujo manga where she get to have the unattainable bad boy while her cucked husband/boyfriend is just a side character. She and the 'Bull' are safe from any negative consequences; the 'cuck' is the only one who isn't.

But, in Japanese NTR, no one is safe.

We'll have to wait and see which category this story falls into.

hopefully the Western style then I want Zac and Sophie endgame

 

[Zes1993]

I'm gonna say the thing again. You ready? Here it comes...

It's a 'Western Cuckoldry vs Japanese NTR' thing.

See, in both Western Cuckoldry and Japanese NTR, the guy usually gets the short end of the stick when the story is all said and done. However, while the cheating woman also tends to get a 'bad end' in Japanese NTR (reduced to being a cumdump and/or abandoned), in Western Cuckoldry, she always comes out smelling like roses.

In Western Cuckoldry, the woman is effectively the protagonist of a cheating Shoujo manga where she get to have the unattainable bad boy while her cucked husband/boyfriend is just a side character. She and the 'Bull' are safe from any negative consequences; the 'cuck' is the only one who isn't.

But, in Japanese NTR, no one is safe.

We'll have to wait and see which category this story falls into.

 

[Zes1993]

So now we wait 20 days

 

[Zarkhy]

So now we wait 20 days

Only 13 if you support the Patreon at the 15€ level.

 

[Noc9]

Good Story, I love it!

 

[gedads]

".Then you've only read 'dozens'.

Japanese NTR stories that end with the FMC becoming a cumdump, getting divorced, or just abandoned (implied or otherwise) are not uncommon. Even the 'Bull' gets fucked over sometimes. However, the same can't be said of 'Western' NTR. "

My bad i wasn't talking about manga or stories which your list is made of but games. there's none even japanese one.
Stories are different, there's much more like millions, obviously you'll encounter some of them.
But once again i can tell dozens of japanese games depicts your "western cuckoldry" years before porn games were producted in west while i still can't find even one game (as an alternative path or 10th ending) having common points with the manga list you provided.
Japanese in all of their games enjoys extreme humiliation, you can even encounter that in their tv shows that have nothing to do with porn.

 

[gedads]

"so I'm guessing I'm more fine tuned to the japanese raw NTR than the western simp model " there's no such thing as japanese raw ntr... you're just playing a game identifying as the MC which is essential to play a game up to the end and you're just discovering that you can't enjoy that treatment. Congratulations

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

Never said it did...



Putting it simply:

- People who prefer Western 'humiliation based' cuckoldry have an preference for seeing the MC suffer (Meaning only suffer. No revenge. No moving on to something better. Just misery from start to finish).

- The preference is so strong that they criticize people who don't really need the MC to suffer. (Hoping for him to fight back/wanting things to go badly for the FMC. Both of which would be acceptable in Japanese NTR but not in Western Cuckoldry.)

- They go so far as to claim that NTR where the MC doesn't suffer isn't really NTR. Effectively confusing their Western humiliation fetish with Japanese Netorare which, as a whole, is more than just fetishized humiliation.

The original comment was responding to someone complaining about authors favoring fmcs, which is common across NTR and most likely a preference devs developed from there. Duno about people gatekeeping, nvm.