I mean, that's true, but by the exact same logic, it'd be highly unlikely that his sister and her friends had given him a blowjob, or that his other sister would be grappling with her desire for him, or that sister's friend being wiling to fuck him, or his teacher fucking him, or...
If you follow the story it's perfectly likely. He already had a relationship with all of the characters to begin with. His younger sister looked up to him and after going back and realizing how she felt about him before his complacency caused a rift between them, he used her attachment and sexual naivete to help her explore her sexuality and engender a stronger attraction than she already had. The biggest "walls" exist with his mother--who is a fully developed adult with an obvious strong moral barrier to having a sexual relationship with her children, and his older sister--who has a strong and slightly deviant sex drive, but obviously doesn't want to fuck her brother and has a massive sense of pride to be overcome to take advantage of her drive.
You're right, but officially he's just with emily and stephanie, and about MCs sister things just getting started, he's just fooling around with teacher and "that sister's friend" but you're right though his mom's one of the primary lis and still have no progress, well not that much, overall I have to say you're right.
I mean, if we go that route, many games here would be quite strange, because the plot does not make sense or things like incest would not be as prominent.
It's really not, though. If you truly think that five days is enough time to turn people from "I hate my pervert little brother" to "I kind want to fuck him because only he understands me, he;s the only one I've ever truly wanted", then you've got a weird sense of likelihood, chief.
According to the dev on this very website, she didn't have ANY attraction to him before. So she's gone from "I look up to my brother" to "I'll suck his dick alongside my friend, and REALLY want him inside me" in five days. That's so far from "likely" that it couldn't see likely on a nice clear day with a telescope.
Would this be the same older sister who goes from "don't speak to me, pervert" on day 1 to "making out with, geting fondled by, and saying how much more she wants the MC" on day 6? Yeah, strong resistance there, chief.
What "game and experience"? By his own admission, the MC's never been in a romantic relationship; his every sexual encounter has been with drunken sluts and prostitutes. Yeah, takes a lot of "game" to pay someone to fuck you.
If you think "five in-game days to be the object of desire for the mother, both sisters, schoolfriend/new girlfriend, older sister's friend, younger sister's friend, and teacher" is a medium-pace, I'd hate to imagine what you think "fast-paced" is. I think it'd be improved by having less things happen on any given day (because oh boy, are those days filled-to-the-goddamn-brim) and extending the current content over several weeks/month-and-a-half, instead of the world's busiest week. The dev would be able to release content at their current rate, and just stretch things out over a week or so per release, instead of a single day.
Both are entirely true statements, but all that really means is that you're acknowledging that incest games are, pretty much by definition, absurd. I, personally, am fine with them being absurd.
Curious, sure. But to go from "I can talk to you about anything, big brother?" to "I'll kneel here next to my friend and suck your dick, big brother" in four days is a hell of a leap. And when a game makes that kind of leap, I'd say that arguing for "likely" behaviour from characters starts being a meaningless metric; none of their behaviours are likely.
I agree completely. But it still establishes this as being a story in which "likely" has taken a holiday, and should not be something people overly concern themselves with as it applies to character motivations. Internal consistency matters far more than "likely" does in these stories.
Sure, good idea, and I'm not saying I disagree. I'm saying that using an argument for it being "unlikely" while ignoring all the other equally unlikely stuff doesn't hold water. That's all.
Clearly you missed the fact that the MC got sent back to before his sisters had any actually animosity toward him, even if there was already some contention between him and his older sister. The process of their relationship thawing out since he got sent back is clearly laid out in their story arc.
You might want to go replay the first day again, chief. The first words Alyvia says directly to the MC are "Hey you little pervert! Stop staring at me with your creepy eyes!" She thinks (quite rightly) that he's a pervert who keeps staring at her. At no point have I said she outright despised him, I've said she went from "you're a creepy pervert" on Day 1 to "he's the only one who understands me, the only one who wants me, the only one who loves me, and I'm fine with him fondling my tits" by Day 6, and that's provably what happened. That's absurdly fast, and I think it's wild that you're arguing otherwise, and contending it's a "medium-pace".
If he had any charisma, he wouldn't have been such a wretched failure at relationships. Charisma would have helped him to attract partners, a thing he admits he has never been able to do, even before he gave up on life. Outside of women he paid and drunken sluts, he's never had anyone. He says this blatantly. A charismatic person does not go their entire life failing to attract partners.
Yeah, you're outright just making shit up at this point. Paying a woman to fuck you is not, by any definition of the word, seduction. The story says that his experience learning hoiw to rock the world of prostitutes is what makes him a good fuck, but it makes no claims about him learning the art of seduction. Note the difference, chief.
Actually, I'm not. I'm acknowledging that those established relationships are the very reason it's so ridiculous to think that him going from "you're a pervert" to "you're the only man who could ever really love me" in five fucking days is in any way a reasonable timescale. I find it funny you're saying "with your "five days" bullshit" when that's literally how long it takes Alyvia to go from the first stance to the second one.
Sure, and how often are they siblings? Or teachers/students? Equating "platonic relationships between friends" with "family relationships/a teacher-pupil relationship" is disingenous at best.
You're right. It's a hell of a lot faster with a stranger you meet at a bar/club than it is with your own sister who thinks you're a creepy little pervert, or a married teacher. The latter example is far more probable, and is in fact a thing most people experience at some point in their life. Thank you for proving my point, chief.
Hold up... I'm saying it should take longer in-game than it currently does, and you somehow conclude that makes me impatient? Do you not know what "impatient" means, chief? I'm honestly curious; what part of anything I've said leads you to think I'm being impatient?
Way to show you know nothing about writing. When I'm talking about pacing, I'm talking about the narrative pacing. Romeo and Juliet takes place over five days. But there's still a narrative pacing that stretches out over the whole play as it reaches different arcs; Jane Eyre takes place over about 10 years, and the romantic part of it takes about two; but they still have corresponding narrative arcs. Absolute time periods are irrelevant.
Not agreeing with you isn't the same as not understanding something, chief. The pacing, the speed at which the story is told, is rushed. There are half-a-dozen major LI's and just as many minor LI's, and they're all progressing at breakneck speed, because it's only been five fuckin' days, and look how much has happened. The "narrative arc" here more resembles an orbital shuttles trajectory.
I love how the example you choose to quote doesn't include him learning seduction at all. It in fact explicitly says he's never had a kiss like it, and mentions how all his kisses with prostitutes weren't really kisses; that what he learned with his prostitutes and drunken sluts did not prepare him for the seduction experience. Bravo, chief, great example arguing against your own point.
Again, I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying that there's not enough happening between the MC and Alyvia in those five days to justify such an extreme change in attitude; it takes rather more than two conversations to change "stop looking at me with your creepy pervert eyes" into "you're the only one who could ever love me, so I'm totally fine with you fondling my tits". Hence why I think it's been rushed; the characters opinions have changed too drastically, too quickly. I've said this several times, and yet you seem unable to grasp it, and also somehow think that I'm both arguing that it's too rushed, and that I'm being impatient. Not sure how you came to such a conclusion.
Julia is desperate for attention from anyone, Mya responds to the fact that he drugged her (same way Melena responds to Leo, unless you think he's got a lot of game, too), and Melena and Lola react to the rumour that he's suddenly got a cock larger than his forearm. Not great examples of his supposed charisma. And to be clear, I'm not saying his efforts to manipulate characters don't work; I'm saying they work because the dev says they do, not because they're actual examples of charismatic behaviour, and that he certainly wasn't presented as a charismatic person before his time jump (the whole "never managed to have a relationship" thing), which makes him suddenly developing such a skill kind of out-of-left-field.
Again, I never said that. Not once. In point of fact, if you look at my discussion with Cherubim, I explicitly agreed with him that taking time with the mother is better than creating scenes quickly; he equated her to a "Grand Prize". You're operating under a faulty premise, chief. Now, since you're objectively and demonstrably wrong in your premise, this is the part where you acknowledge your error.
I think that people exaggerate with the realism in incest, it doesn't have to take years to develop a relationship of that kind, in any case I think that this dev does this content much better than most games, I mean in most incest games the family don't even feel like a family and it's just a gimmick to attract an audience, I think this game shows how to make incest content with good pace and at the same time not be a fuckfest. kudos to the dev for that.
This. In most western titles, I won't say all, that deal with incest....it happens near instantly. The moms just has to see MC dick once and suddenly any motherly love becomes lust, older sisters usually starts out a bitch and offers the most resistance but still falls pretty fast even when she has a boyfriend and younger sisters most of the time already wants the MC from the get go.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you both are looking at the same cloud and just disagree on what it looks like. Romeo and Juliet lived in a different time period, their families hated each other and as far as I remember they were not related. They had different barriers to overcome than the characters in this story.
That's exactly what I'm saying. There are narrative barriers that are constructed and then have to be addressed somehow through the course of the story. That's narrative pacing. The particulars of those barriers don't matter, they just have to be salient and addressable through some sort of rhetorical approach.Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you both are looking at the same cloud and just disagree on what it looks like. Romeo and Juliet lived in a different time period, their families hated each other and as far as I remember they were not related. They had different barriers to overcome than the characters in this story.
While things are happening fast, the characters have been well established and have been developing constantly thanks to how full every day has been.
While I would agree that it's been maybe a little too fast in terms of days, I wouldn't agree that it's been too fast for the amount of content that each day contains. There is a disconnect where it feels like the characters don't take enough time to think and sort out their feelings, there is also the fact that most of them are still young and don't know how to even go about it.
As for the whole "game" talk, I don't really think either of you disagree with each other but are arguing different things. The MC was overweight before he went back in time. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with heavier people but he had no confidence in his appearance. His time with prostitutes taught him how to please a woman, but not how to seduce them as it was a transaction and not picking them up. However he worked in a store before, and while it's not stated what his actual job was (unless it did and I forgot) I think we can assume he had a retail job. Part of dealing with customers is diffusing tense situations, trying to get them to buy more, and convincing them to come back. He learned how to read the room, and come across as helpful, and in a sense, learned how to manipulate people. Seduction is a form of manipulation, and being young again gave him the self confidence to try it. (Of course thekickstandgiant penis helped too lol) While it's not a perfect explanation that's how I interpreted it anyways, and I could very well have gotten it wrong.
Hope this helped bridge the gap a little
