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Cogiworth

Newbie
Jan 14, 2023
70
170
92
I don't think you understand the point of donating, you're not paying for a product, it's not like kickstarter where you can pay for the product and if you give more money you could get more stuff or like any retail store; the point of using patreon is to give your pocketchange or any amount or disposable income you don't need so that the people receiving that money can keep going with their current project and possiby do more in the future, that's how patronage works. Of course many awful devs take advantage of this so they slow as much as possible the workflow and the updates are thin in content. If what you want is to pay one time then just like any other game in the market you'll have to wait for the complete version.



Exactly, and it's even worse when you take in considerations how much pression for a perfect update Baibai strives for, not even acounting that life can be a bitch and working on your spare time get's even harder.
If you actually read my comment you would see it was a critique of the viability of year long release schedules and never did I claim patrons purchased a product so they should be entitled to a product. Since the point I was making was drowned out by your redditsplainment about how I do not understand the concept of patronage I will lay it out in a clear manner for you.

Patrons are not the standard consumer of adult games/art, they are the fuel that allows for devs to create the games/art. Patrons clearly do not have unlimited funds to support every potential project that catches their interests so they are required to be selective in the projects that they choose to support. Many projects have been cancelled or "milked" by bad actor devs over the years and many of the people that choose to be patrons have grown weary of projects that slip their self imposed deadlines. For this reason, projects that slip into year long schedules are highly volatile and will drastically hemorrhage support unless they are a dev that has high social capital/trust from previous game releases. Hence Eternium being able to support such a schedule with it's high quality and with a previous full game release from the dev. BaiBai has unfortunately slipped to many self imposed timelines to have the social capital required for such a schedule because as soon as that yearly release is slipped patrons will be furious.

Now to address the perception that patrons are not entitled to anything. Unfortunately, while that is legally true it is not the practical end of the subject. Patrons DO expect some kind of progression for their support. The example I gave about yearly released games with support set at $5 a month after a year being the same price as full retail games was intentional. People will expect much more of a project when the same amount of capital (or less) is capable of purchasing more content than any adult game dev can reasonably release in one update. This will cause the patrons to become more disgruntled and support will wane even in the case of highly regarded adult games, for this reason games like the mentioned Eternium engage their patrons with previews/screenshots of their projects so that people know the game is actually being worked on, this also allows for more engagement from fans in the interim dev time. Patrons are "donating" in the same way that when people donate to a blood bank they expect the blood to be used to help people not as paint for an art project. There is an implicit understanding that the project is actually being worked on and updates are simply a way for patrons to view the progress on the thing they support. A project is not legally being bought but this is simply a way to dodge responsibility for the organizations that facilitate the transactions. Unironically believing that is how patronage was used historically is laughable to the point of being absurd since it requires you to fall into legalese traps designed to safeguard organizations instead of consumers. If you truly believe that is right nothing can be said to you to convince you otherwise so there is no point in further discussion, however if you do not believe that is right you might want to learn more about historic patronage and artists responsibilities to their patrons and not how recent modern companies have changed the meaning of patronage.

TLDR: Twisted Memories will likely not be able to handle long term yearly releases on the patron end and the patrons will reasonably leave a project that isn't showing any movement since they can spend their capital in other places. Patrons have every right to expect things from the projects they support and the only reason we make distinctions between paying and donating is for liability/tax reasons not because patrons of arts have/do not expect results from their patronage.
 

nalgonas4ever

Member
Nov 11, 2023
293
698
251
If you actually read my comment you would see it was a critique of the viability of year long release schedules and never did I claim patrons purchased a product so they should be entitled to a product. Since the point I was making was drowned out by your redditsplainment about how I do not understand the concept of patronage I will lay it out in a clear manner for you.

Patrons are not the standard consumer of adult games/art, they are the fuel that allows for devs to create the games/art. Patrons clearly do not have unlimited funds to support every potential project that catches their interests so they are required to be selective in the projects that they choose to support. Many projects have been cancelled or "milked" by bad actor devs over the years and many of the people that choose to be patrons have grown weary of projects that slip their self imposed deadlines. For this reason, projects that slip into year long schedules are highly volatile and will drastically hemorrhage support unless they are a dev that has high social capital/trust from previous game releases. Hence Eternium being able to support such a schedule with it's high quality and with a previous full game release from the dev. BaiBai has unfortunately slipped to many self imposed timelines to have the social capital required for such a schedule because as soon as that yearly release is slipped patrons will be furious.

Now to address the perception that patrons are not entitled to anything. Unfortunately, while that is legally true it is not the practical end of the subject. Patrons DO expect some kind of progression for their support. The example I gave about yearly released games with support set at $5 a month after a year being the same price as full retail games was intentional. People will expect much more of a project when the same amount of capital (or less) is capable of purchasing more content than any adult game dev can reasonably release in one update. This will cause the patrons to become more disgruntled and support will wane even in the case of highly regarded adult games, for this reason games like the mentioned Eternium engage their patrons with previews/screenshots of their projects so that people know the game is actually being worked on, this also allows for more engagement from fans in the interim dev time. Patrons are "donating" in the same way that when people donate to a blood bank they expect the blood to be used to help people not as paint for an art project. There is an implicit understanding that the project is actually being worked on and updates are simply a way for patrons to view the progress on the thing they support. A project is not legally being bought but this is simply a way to dodge responsibility for the organizations that facilitate the transactions. Unironically believing that is how patronage was used historically is laughable to the point of being absurd since it requires you to fall into legalese traps designed to safeguard organizations instead of consumers. If you truly believe that is right nothing can be said to you to convince you otherwise so there is no point in further discussion, however if you do not believe that is right you might want to learn more about historic patronage and artists responsibilities to their patrons and not how recent modern companies have changed the meaning of patronage.

TLDR: Twisted Memories will likely not be able to handle long term yearly releases on the patron end and the patrons will reasonably leave a project that isn't showing any movement since they can spend their capital in other places. Patrons have every right to expect things from the projects they support and the only reason we make distinctions between paying and donating is for liability/tax reasons not because patrons of arts have/do not expect results from their patronage.
Ok sure I redditsplain and you need a TLDR for a bunch of stuff I didn't get about eternium and stuff, you win, I won't talk about this anymore because the mods would ban me.
 
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Dyonisos

Newbie
Oct 28, 2017
24
51
215
I think its good that the mods allow a mild disussion in this thread. There are other Games on this Platform who are relative successful and even the slightest doubt or critism in the comment section leads to mass banning the said doubts or you even get witch hunted by the games community. I would really like to see the "completed" Tag on this game, but its all up to the Dev.
 

mentosa

Active Member
Dec 5, 2021
779
2,614
392
Did anyone order a development update?



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Will not share the full NNN story (I encourage subing for that or maybe someone else will share) .... but Baibai dropped this in there - missis Clements after years. FTW.
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nalgonas4ever

Member
Nov 11, 2023
293
698
251
Did anyone order a development update?



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Will not share the full NNN story (I encourage subing for that or maybe someone else will share) .... but Baibai dropped this in there - missis Clements after years. FTW.
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Awesome, very excited, I can se the light at the end of the tunnel, but still feeling unsure about the future, just like real life.
I wish creators in general were less perfectionistic and could live with doing small patches after a little after a release
Same, theres a bunch of people that like to nag about the spelling and stuff, as long as it's not a gamebreaking bug I'm fine with waiting a bit more after the update drops so the tweeks can be done.
 

Tankill

Member
Sep 20, 2020
240
646
268
Did anyone order a development update?



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Will not share the full NNN story (I encourage subing for that or maybe someone else will share) .... but Baibai dropped this in there - missis Clements after years. FTW.
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For this developer to be making fan-service content, they must be out of other ways to distract themselves, it's not just this image there are about twenty

Probably making the save compatible created a bomb.
 
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